Tower "short approach"

[WoooPigSooie]

This is from the other thread about ATC, and I didn't want to hijack it, so I've started a new one.

Sometimes the opposite is true. If the airport is busy and the tower controller wants to get you in front of someone coming straight in they will tell you "proceed to the numbers" and stop that time wasting base squaring thing you're doing.

I think this might be what happened to me Saturday. Tower asked me to proceed to base when I was just entering downwind, which was a little confusing, but I just took it he wanted me to expedite my pattern and landing. Then as I got closer to base he asked me to make a short approach. There's quite a bit of traffic you can hear and I knew I was holding folks up. I'm still studying this but I'd be glad to hear any critiques to help me.
This was at PHNL, approaching the airport from the east along the H1 fwy. It was the first time I've ever entered a right downwind for any runway there.

http://youtu.be/H1O_zySRl7I

 

[N801BH]

This is from the other thread about ATC, and I didn't want to hijack it, so I've started a new one.



I think this might be what happened to me Saturday. Tower asked me to proceed to base when I was just entering downwind, which was a little confusing, but I just took it he wanted me to expedite my pattern and landing. Then as I got closer to base he asked me to make a short approach. There's quite a bit of traffic you can hear and I knew I was holding folks up. I'm still studying this but I'd be glad to hear any critiques to help me.
This was at PHNL, approaching the airport from the east along the H1 fwy. It was the first time I've ever entered a right downwind for any runway there.

http://youtu.be/H1O_zySRl7I

Sounds like the tower wanted you to do a short approach.. You did good...

 

[Velocity173]

What's the question?

 

[SoonerAviator]

Basically wanted you to do a 180-to-land from the downwind leg. Nothing wrong with declining the option if you aren't comfortable with it. They'll likely just direct the landing traffic in and tell you to extend your downwind a bit or make some s-turns to compensate.

 

[WoooPigSooie]

Basically wanted you to do a 180-to-land from the downwind leg. Nothing wrong with declining the option if you aren't comfortable with it. They'll likely just direct the landing traffic in and tell you to extend your downwind a bit or make some s-turns to compensate.

Ah. That makes sense, thanks. That's what happens most of the time. "1-2 foxtrot extend you dw and I'll call your base." I think I have a bad habit running my dw too close to my landing runway at HNL because of my pucker factor with 8L & 8R and the big iron landing or taking off on those runways. I'm afraid of getting too spread out over the airport footprint.

 

[WoooPigSooie]

Sounds like the tower wanted you to do a short approach.. You did good...

OK so "short approach" and "proceed to the numbers" like sixpacker pointed out are essentially the same thing. ATC just wants you to kill the base and land asap.

 

[N801BH]

OK so "short approach" and "proceed to the numbers" like sixpacker pointed out essentially the same thing. ATC just wants you to kill the base and land asap.

Yup....

Where I fly, my short approaches don't get close to the threshold as I can turn inbound at midfield and land anywhere.... They usually tell me what exit of the runway to use so the determines my set up.. From pattern altitude at mid field I can land and clear the runway in less then 20 seconds or so.....
Tower guys love the impromptu landing... So do I,,, And it makes for good practice for me if the Ford ever fails while flying anywhere... IMHO..

 

[roncachamp]

OK so "short approach" and "proceed to the numbers" like sixpacker pointed out are essentially the same thing. ATC just wants you to kill the base and land asap.

"Make short approach" is standard phraseology, "proceed to the numbers" is not.

 

[Velocity173]

OK so "short approach" and "proceed to the numbers" like sixpacker pointed out are essentially the same thing. ATC just wants you to kill the base and land asap.

Proceed to the numbers is to proceed to the approach end (non standard phraseology). Make short approach isn't necessarily to proceed direct the approach end. For instance you could get make short approach while on downwind. In that case just keep it tight.

Tower took you off the original downwind to save time. While you were on base he wanted a short approach to further save time. Most likely for the aircraft holding short on rwy 8.

 

[WoooPigSooie]

Proceed to the numbers is to proceed to the approach end. Make short approach isn't necessarily to proceed direct the approach end. As Steven said that's non standard phraseology. For instance you could get make short approach while on downwind. In that case just keep it tight.

Tower took you off the original downwind to save time. While you were on base he wanted a short approach to further save time. Most likely for the aircraft holding short on rwy 8.

OK, but that's been part of my critique of myself in the video. At 1:03 he sounds a little short when he says, "1-2 foxtrot proceed to right base now." I chalked it up to my unfamiliarity with the right downwind, and should have turn downwind earlier. Stands to reason if I turned to dw sooner I would arrive at base sooner, no?
He also pauses at 2:24 when describing my dw to traffic, as "tight in."

 

[Velocity173]

OK, but that's been part of my critique of myself in the video. At 1:03 he sounds a little short when he says, "1-2 foxtrot proceed to right base now." I chalked it up to my unfamiliarity with the right downwind, and should have turn downwind earlier. Stands to reason if I turned to dw sooner I would arrive at base sooner, no?
He also pauses at 2:24 when describing my dw to traffic, as "tight in."

It's hard to tell where you were in the initial instruction to enter downwind. Hard to tell where you were when he instructed you to proceed direct the right base as well. Either way, the initial plan of the downwind wasn't going to work for him. Doesn't mean it's your fault either. Controller plans for sequencing change. Sometimes the plan results in a pattern extension, in your case it was a pattern reduction. Since the controller thanked you, you flew the pattern the controller wanted you to fly.

 

[jimhorner]

Short approaches are fun. San Jose (KSJC) Class Charlie gives them to me fairly frequently to let me get in without having to wait for the airliners on their long ILS straight-in approaches.

The other day, I was approaching KSJC from the East. Was told to cross over the tower at 2000 feet and enter left downwind for 30L. (Pattern altitude at KSJC is 1000 ft). As soon as I was over the tower and beginning my turn to downwind: "niner Echo Lima, Cleared to land 30L, make short approach, Boeing 737 on final"

Ookaay... Gotta get lose about 2000 feet quickly, let's see: Power off, Gear down, full flaps, left bank to final, full right rudder to slip down, confirm gear down, prop full. Made the first turn off.

Tower: "Nicely done, thanks for the help, contact ground"

Certainly not the regular type of pattern, but it does allow mixing of the GA aircraft in with the big boys.

 

[Shawn]

Had that a few weeks ago at KFUL while on downwind just past mid field...

Tower: Skylane 598 extend your downwind, I'll call your base, #4 to land

Me: [sigh] extending downwind, #4, 598

Tower: Skyklane 598, can you accept a short approach?

Me: [diving for threashold before I even key the mic] Absolutely! 598

Tower: Sklylane 598, cleared to land runway 24

Me: Thank you! 598

Not sure my wings were ever level until my round out!

I have been offered it and asked for it many times, but find it a bit odd that the controller would TELL you to make a short approach. Do it if comfortable, but also do not accept if you need the time to set up for final. You may get a delay, but you want to be confident in your approach to final.

 

[jimhorner]

I have been offered it and asked for it many times, but find it a bit odd that the controller would TELL you to make a short approach. Do it if comfortable, but also do not accept if you need the time to set up for final. You may get a delay, but you want to be confident in your approach to final.

Agreed, "unable" is always a magic word.

However, KSJC is home base, and I suspect the tower guys know me. Probably why they give me those short approaches on a somewhat regular basis. Nice place to fly from, actually, frequently get a nice "Welcome back" when I make the initial call.

What's really interesting is coming in over the Diablo mountains to the East slightly South of the field at 6000 ft and then being cleared to land. Gotta drop a LOT of altitude in a short amount of time.

 

[NickC99]

Agreed: short approaches are plenty fun! A day or two right before the checkride, I was in the pattern when tower asked me to do one... and then another... and then another. It was busy for them and they were appreciative.

I love pulling the power and kicking the rudder over for a slip right toward the numbers.

 

[Ghery]

Back when i was a student pilot, the last time I flew a C-150, I was on right downwind to rwy 17 at KOLM. Tower asked for a short approach due to somebody on a long straight in to 17. No problem, pull the power, drop the flaps and head for the numbers. IIRC (this was a long time ago) I slipped to lose altitude and brought it right down. Finished my solo XC hours with that flight. Short approaches shouldn't be a big deal and are kind of fun.

Now, if you want something that will come down in a hurry, try an old Hershey bar wing Piper Arrow. Pull the power abeam the numbers and wait to drop the gear on short final. You'll need all 1000 feet of altitude to make that work. Darned thing drops like a safe when you pull the power.

 

[WoooPigSooie]

Back when i was a student pilot, the last time I flew a C-150, I was on right downwind to rwy 17 at KOLM. Tower asked for a short approach due to somebody on a long straight in to 17. No problem, pull the power, drop the flaps and head for the numbers. IIRC (this was a long time ago) I slipped to lose altitude and brought it right down. Finished my solo XC hours with that flight. Short approaches shouldn't be a big deal and are kind of fun.

Now, if you want something that will come down in a hurry, try an old Hershey bar wing Piper Arrow. Pull the power abeam the numbers and wait to drop the gear on short final. You'll need all 1000 feet of altitude to make that work. Darned thing drops like a safe when you pull the power.

Very cool. That's exactly what the flight in the video I posted was. I needed 1.8hrs XC to finish my flight prereq's and did so on that flight to PHNY and back.