Today I learned...

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by TangoWhiskey, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    ...that the drink you might be inclined to have to help calm your nerves after you get home from an aircraft accident might cost you your certificates. That's a "single act generally warranting revocation" of all your certificates.

    Did you know that? Same if you were the flight attendant on an airplane that crashed, or a mechanic, or the pilot/dispatcher, or ATC (any of a number "safety-sensitive functions"). I've never heard this in any of my training.

    From Table 9.5 of FAA Order 2150.3C, page 203 in the PDF (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_2150.3C_with_CHG_1.pdf):

    (15) Using alcohol within eight hours following an aircraft accident when having actual knowledge of the accident and having performed a safety-sensitive function at or near the time of the accident.

    "Safety-sensitive functions" in FAA parlance (14 CFR Part 120) includes all of the following roles; those with:
    • Flight crew-member duties
    • Flight attendant duties
    • Aircraft dispatcher duties
    • Flight instruction duties
    • Aircraft maintenance or preventive maintenance duties
    • Ground security coordinator duties
    • Aviation screening duties
    • Air traffic control duties
    • Operations control specialist duties


    So, don't drink 8 hours before flight... or for 8 hours after a particularly bad flight.

    It would be good if we were taught this in primary training, along with the normal 8 hour rule. Would SUCK to lose all your certificates because you weren't aware... but ignorance is no defense!
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  2. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @TangoWhiskey -- Good thing to know, so thanks for finding this information.

    PS. Congrats on passing your Millennial Hour mark.
     
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Why would we have part 119+ training under primary part 91?

    120.1 Applicability.
    This part applies to the following persons:

    (a) All air carriers and operators certificated under part 119 of this chapter authorized to conduct operations under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter, all air traffic control facilities not operated by the FAA or by or under contract to the U.S. military; and all operators as defined in 14 CFR 91.147.

    (b) All individuals who perform, either directly or by contract, a safety-sensitive function listed in subpart E or subpart F of this part.

    (c) All part 145 certificate holders who perform safety-sensitive functions and elect to implement a drug and alcohol testing program under this part.

    (d) All contractors who elect to implement a drug and alcohol testing program under this part.

    91.147 applies to 119 121 125 135 et al...

    Sooooooooo, if you wreck your own plane and have a drink afterwards, this regulation does not apply.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  4. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    FYI: It's not just the previous 8 hours at least on the maintenance side. After the usual prelim investigation that can go back 72 to 120 hours, if your name pops up they can and will call for a pee/blow test that day regardless if you worked the aircraft the previous 8 hrs of the accident/incident. This was Part 135 but have seen it and experienced it.
     
  5. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    This is AFTER the accident though, not before.
     
  6. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    My bad, meant to say 8 hrs after. Just to clarify, I was hit with the tests 2 days after the incident which showed I signed off a 50 hour inspection 5 day before the incident.
     
  7. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Really bad advice.

    91.17 Alcohol or drugs.
    (a) No person may act or attempt to act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft—

    (1) Within 8 hours after the consumption of any alcoholic beverage;

    (2) While under the influence of alcohol;

    (3) While using any drug that affects the person's faculties in any way contrary to safety; or

    (4) While having an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater in a blood or breath specimen. Alcohol concentration means grams of alcohol per deciliter of blood or grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath.

    (b) Except in an emergency, no pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a person who appears to be intoxicated or who demonstrates by manner or physical indications that the individual is under the influence of drugs (except a medical patient under proper care) to be carried in that aircraft.

    (c) A crewmember shall do the following:

    (1) On request of a law enforcement officer, submit to a test to indicate the alcohol concentration in the blood or breath, when—

    (i) The law enforcement officer is authorized under State or local law to conduct the test or to have the test conducted; and

    (ii) The law enforcement officer is requesting submission to the test to investigate a suspected violation of State or local law governing the same or substantially similar conduct prohibited by paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section.

    (2) Whenever the FAA has a reasonable basis to believe that a person may have violated paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section, on request of the FAA, that person must furnish to the FAA the results, or authorize any clinic, hospital, or doctor, or other person to release to the FAA, the results of each test taken within 4 hours after acting or attempting to act as a crewmember that indicates an alcohol concentration in the blood or breath specimen.

    (d) Whenever the Administrator has a reasonable basis to believe that a person may have violated paragraph (a)(3) of this section, that person shall, upon request by the Administrator, furnish the Administrator, or authorize any clinic, hospital, doctor, or other person to release to the Administrator, the results of each test taken within 4 hours after acting or attempting to act as a crewmember that indicates the presence of any drugs in the body.

    (e) Any test information obtained by the Administrator under paragraph (c) or (d) of this section may be evaluated in determining a person's qualifications for any airman certificate or possible violations of this chapter and may be used as evidence in any legal proceeding under section 602, 609, or 901 of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958.





    61.16 Refusal to submit to an alcohol test or to furnish test results.
    A refusal to submit to a test to indicate the percentage by weight of alcohol in the blood, when requested by a law enforcement officer in accordance with §91.17(c) of this chapter, or a refusal to furnish or authorize the release of the test results requested by the Administrator in accordance with §91.17(c) or (d) of this chapter, is grounds for:

    (a) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that refusal; or

    (b) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
     
  8. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Thank Odin! I was worried there.