To November or Not To November...That's My Question

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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My Flight Instructor always said I didn't need to say "November" when talking to the tower, flight following, etc., because it just means US. However, when I don't say it, they always repeat my call sign with the November.

So which is it:

"So Cal. Approach Cirrus 2 5 Niner Sierra Romeo VFR Request"

or

"So Cal. Approach Cirrus November 2 5 Niner Sierra Romeo VFR Request"

Enquiring minds want to know! :D
 
Without. It's a pointless waste of time to say it.
 
If you say your type, such as "Cirrus 89CD" you don't need it. If you simply say the callsign without type then you should say "N89CD"
 
The answer is in the AIM.
 
Amazing...4 answers in one minute! This website is great. Sounds like no...and I haven't been, so I guess I'm good.
 
The answer you seek is in the AIM.
Section 4 is Communications.

Most do not use the "November", but there is nothing I have seen to prohibit it.
Most use, and examples are in AIM Section 4, "Beechcraft two three three Charlie hotel" or "Cessna two three four five six".

I would not use "Cessna November 23456", but there is nothing prohibiting it.
 
When I'm flying something everyone knows, like a Skyhawk, I'll say Skyhawk 12345. That being said, I occasionally fly some light sports, one of which is the Sky Arrow. Some people are starting to know what a Tecnam is, but there are only 30 or so Sky Arrows in the country. Rather than tie up the frequency with something like,

"Potomac Approach, Sky Arrow 439SA is 5 south east of Bay Bridge at 3500, request flight following to Williamsburg, Juliet Golf Golf."
"November 439SA, say type aircraft."
"439SA is type Sky Arrow, designator Sierra Kilo Alpha Romeo."
"Uhhh what's that?"
"It's a light sport."
"Roger. November 439SA, radar contact" blah blah.

I tend to go straight to the November. I've found that the controllers around there often don't particularly care what type aircraft you are. One evening I was given flight following without a discrete code! The controller's sector must have been dead.
 
Particularly useful to say "november" when the full call sign is N3RW.
 
Type and number or your going to get a lot of questions on what you are flying.
 
i rarely use november. ive actually heard approach controllers and towers say it more than i do. for example

ny approach chereokee 12345 level 6000.
n12345 roger altimeter 3000
 
I provide type and November due to a lot of Canadian aircraft flying in the area.
 
Only heard it used once.

Skymaster: XXXX Ground, Skymaster 285.

Ground: Say full call sign.

Skymaster: November 285.
 
Bob Noel said:
Particularly useful to say "november" when the full call sign is N3RW.
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Yes. I think if your callsign is less than 5 digits, using the "november" may avoid confusion on the controller's part.
 
Disagree on the use November to imply the 'full callsign'.

November 285 and Skymaster 285 are both correct full callsigns for a Skymaster with a registration of N285.

However, they're also BOTH legal shortened callsigns for a Skymaster with a registration of N12285.

So, replacing Skymaster with November doesn't actually clarify anything.
 
coma24 said:
Disagree on the use November to imply the 'full callsign'.

November 285 and Skymaster 285 are both correct full callsigns for a Skymaster with a registration of N285.

However, they're also BOTH legal shortened callsigns for a Skymaster with a registration of N12285.

So, replacing Skymaster with November doesn't actually clarify anything.
Click to expand...

On initial callup, isn't the pilot supposed to use the full call sign? And only shorten it after the controller does?
 
jpower said:
When I'm flying something everyone knows, like a Skyhawk, I'll say Skyhawk 12345. That being said, I occasionally fly some light sports, one of which is the Sky Arrow. Some people are starting to know what a Tecnam is, but there are only 30 or so Sky Arrows in the country. Rather than tie up the frequency with something like,

"Potomac Approach, Sky Arrow 439SA is 5 south east of Bay Bridge at 3500, request flight following to Williamsburg, Juliet Golf Golf."
"November 439SA, say type aircraft."
"439SA is type Sky Arrow, designator Sierra Kilo Alpha Romeo."
"Uhhh what's that?"
"It's a light sport."
"Roger. November 439SA, radar contact" blah blah.

I tend to go straight to the November. I've found that the controllers around there often don't particularly care what type aircraft you are. One evening I was given flight following without a discrete code! The controller's sector must have been dead.
Click to expand...

There's a LSA school based at Centennial (KAPA) so they are aware of the 3 types flying there. But for the most part, on the rare ocassions I'm flying LSA and not my cherokee, I just use a generic LSA callsign, e.g.

"Denver approach, Light Sport 1234 at 6500 SE of [wherever]"

and they know that I'm small and slow. I've never had them ask what type of light sport.
 
I often get asked the type code for Navion (it's obvious now the FAA changed it to NAVI, used to be N145 before they reorged the whole list a while back).

When I was based at Dulles, I often was handed off from BAL to IAD and got called Navaho. Took me a while to figure that one out until one of the controllers let me know that they often on VFR popups in the class B just put in a single letter. C for Cessna is a good guess but N usually had some guesswork.

The oddest one was when I was asked to keep my speed up so I did a 160 knots all the way to the approach end of 12 (which was about 4 miles from the tower) at night. They asked if I had my light on, and I said it was on my gear. Gear speed on the Navion is 87 knots and the descent rate with full gear and flaps is quite steep, so I closed the throttle, hauled back on the yoke and as it went through the white arc I dropped the gear (the landing light switch already on, it's like a refrigerator, it comes on automatically when the gear comes out of the wells). They then get to see what appears to be a near vertical approach of the landing lights from that vantage point.

IAD TOWER: 27K what kind of aircraft did you say that was again.

They weren't even going to guess it was an airplane.
 
Bob Noel said:
On initial callup, isn't the pilot supposed to use the full call sign? And only shorten it after the controller does?
Click to expand...

He still doesn't need the N.

I used to fly N73FR a lot and we'd periodically be asked what our full call sign was after calling in as CESSNA 7 3 FOXTROT ROMEO. That's the only time I'd insert the N (NOVEMBER SEVEN THREE FOXTROT ROMEO) in response.
 
I'll be checking out in an aircraft with the tail #N44S soon. I was wondering about this, and i'll probably say the full callsign "november four four sierra" on initial contact with ATC. If I just said "swift 44S" that would probably prompt a response "I need the full callsign" from ATC.
 
My CFI said on the first call to flight following, tower, etc., to use the full callsign, he said using November or not isn't a big deal, but all further calls can be shortened.
 
I would think if you're flying to Canada or Mexico you would use November once out of US airspace.
 
pilot_dude said:
I provide type and November due to a lot of Canadian aircraft flying in the area.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... I hadn't considered that my US tail number (which must contain numbers) might be confused with a Canadian one (which cannot). Hmmm ... Nope. Not changing my practice.
 
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