Time in type before buying

ArrowFlyer86

ArrowFlyer86

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Before you bought your airplane(s), how much time did you have in that manufacturer of aircraft, and/or the specific type?

I'm curious if there many people who buy aircraft "on faith" (that you trust your research and that you'll like its flying characteristics, etc)? While I was fortunate to buy a pretty common, certified training aircraft (P28R) after getting my PPL -- which allowed me to go to a place that rents them and get dual instruction for ~3hrs before buying -- I imagine many people buying experimentals or more niche types, it's probably often not an option to rent before buying. And unless you happen to know someone in your network who owns that type and gives airplane rides, it's probably not feasible to get time in them. In cases like this -- how do you all get comfortable with pulling the trigger on a purchase like that?
 
I had a demo flight in my Maule and my 150 taildragger before I bought them. They both met my (admittedly very minimal) criteria that I had for an airplane at the time. While the 150 was basically a stop-gap, the Maule worked for everything I wanted to do with it through 19 years of ownership. It ceased to do that when “family travel” became one of my criteria. Had it been any model other than the one I had, it probably would have worked for that as well.

As for the Staggerwing project, well…we just won’t go there. ;)
 
First hours in the Debonair I hope to.purchase was to the prebuy inspection. First retract/high performance after 400+ in a warrior. I relied heavily on the advice of other pilots who know my skill level in making the choice.
 
Zero. The T-Craft (my first plane) and the Hatz, I got a ride with the seller. The rest were all single seaters.
 
While I was taking my lessons in a 172 I had the opportunity to buy in as part owner of a 182. I jumped at the chance. I might have been in the plane once, as a passenger, before buying in. But I was pretty sure it would fly much like the 172 but faster. At the time I had heard of a constant speed prop but didn't know much about it. But, pretty easy choice to jump in.
 
As a student pilot with only 172 time, I took a brief demo flight in an Archer before buying it. Later with only time in the 172s and the Archer I took a brief demo flight in a Lance and bought that one.

Like ideally, I'd love to fly many different types and comparison shop but I rarely get the opportunity.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Before you bought your airplane(s), how much time did you have in that manufacturer of aircraft, and/or the specific type?

I'm curious if there many people who buy aircraft "on faith" (that you trust your research and that you'll like its flying characteristics, etc)? While I was fortunate to buy a pretty common, certified training aircraft (P28R) after getting my PPL -- which allowed me to go to a place that rents them and get dual instruction for ~3hrs before buying -- I imagine many people buying experimentals or more niche types, it's probably often not an option to rent before buying. And unless you happen to know someone in your network who owns that type and gives airplane rides, it's probably not feasible to get time in them. In cases like this -- how do you all get comfortable with pulling the trigger on a purchase like that?
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I’m an A&P. I own 2 aircraft. Years ago I was a passenger in an early no rudder pedals Ercoupe and never got to touch the controls. When I bought my Aircoupe with rudder pedals, I didn’t have a medical, my written was expired. I ended up teaching my CFI how to fly it.

Long story short, when I was still a student flying under student endorsement, I was supposed to fly from Atlanta to Nashville. The whole week I wanted to fly there it was VFR not recommended. I made the decision to upgrade my skills and aircraft t IFR. I quickly realized that an additional 30k in the dashboard of a 15k aircraft wasn’t a great idea, so I bought a project RV7.

2 1/2 years later, I have stripped, repainted, upgraded the avionics and still haven’t flown in any flavor of RV as a pilot or passenger.

Roll the dice! What’s the worst that could happen?
 
0 time in any Mooney before buying. I had sat in one or two on a few occasions. But did the math on what mattered (4 seats,TAS, acquisition cost, OpEx in fuel and overhaul), or so I thought, and what didn't (cabin width), and there really was only one answer.
 
0 for me, but i did all my training in an archer, so I was pretty confident the lance wouldn't be a big transition. I also had some dakota time, which was a nice in- between step. Actually the cfi who went with me to pick her up also had zero pa32 time. Turns out pretty much all of these spam cans have more in common than not.
 
Outside of a narrow band of rentables, I'd think most people start out with 0 in type unless they've owned or instructed in that type before. Most planes are not available to build time in otherwise.

This has created some strange situations with insurance for me, whereby they want me to get a Flight Review or IPC in a make/model before giving instruction in the thing -- like, oh, right, who do I call to rent a Beech 58TC? Clowns.
 
I had done less than an hour and one landing in a Navion before I bought mine.
 
Zero PIC time, only a passenger on three occasions, in a 182 prior to purchase…..but, that’s about as safe of a buy without fly as you can get. About 30 minutes flying a 210 before buying one. About 400hrs TT/zero retract takeoff/landing; don’t ask about the first year insurance premium (or the second year, for that matter :rolleyes:)
 
Learned in a 152, zero time in the 182 when I bought it.

Bought tix for a CFI friend and myself, flew out to the plane IN>KS, spent 2.5 hrs learning how to fly the canard STC’d 182 with a different CFI, then we flew it home.

I think insurance wanted 10 hours dual? I wouldn’t fly with anyone until I felt confident, that was between 10-20 hours.
 
I had zero time in type for six of the seven aircraft I have owned. The seventh was the second 170 that I had owned.
 
zero. I had my commercial when I bought and only needed a checkout. Others I know into the same airframe needed 20 dual and 20 solo before carrying passengers. So it can matter quite a bit with your background and the airframe.
 
Not at all the results I anticipated, but I guess the results I should have expected!
I thought I was on the extreme low end of the flying time spectrum having only ~3 hours in my type before I bought it. Apparently not.
It's also encouraging to know that if I were to buy an airplane I did my homework on, but had never flown before, that would be absolutely normal :)
 
Sort of. The Turbo Arrow was a bit of a learning curve but I had time in a Cherokee 140. The Arrow II was basically a 140 that could lift its legs up.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The Arrow II was basically a 140 that could lift its legs up.
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I think you meant to say the Arrow II was a magnificent aircraft, with superior flyability, getting knots a Cherokee 140 could only dream of, was more comfortable, and generally just an amazing airplane.

Sincerely,
Current Arrow II Owner :)
 
I had 20 minutes in an RV-8 and 3 hours in a -6A when I bought my -8A. I didn’t fly it until I owned it. Same with our 175, but in that case I did have 4 or 500 hours in 172s.
 
Recently I've been toying with the idea of a commander. But don't know anyone locally with one.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I think you meant to say the Arrow II was a magnificent aircraft, with superior flyability, getting knots a Cherokee 140 could only dream of, was more comfortable, and generally just an amazing airplane.

Sincerely,
Current Arrow II Owner :)
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Arent they the same cabin? Why would an arrow be more comfortable?

Leaving the rest of the points as obvious :D
 
schmookeeg said:
Arent they the same cabin? Why would an arrow be more comfortable?
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I believe the cabin is physically larger?

I've flown a 140 and it definitely felt smaller. That could just be the placebo effect of owing the arrow where I want to believe it's bigger and better :D (cuz I know it definitely is faster!)
 
I had zero FW time when I bought my 310. I’d been flying Blackhawks for about 20 years already at the time, so it was a much “simpler” airframe. Logged about 450 hours in the 310 before the wife-mandated upgrade. It’s been a wild ride, but Mx support isn’t getting any easier.
 
I had about 500 hours in 150's and 172's but had zero time in my Grumman Tiger when I bought it. After the one hour of insurance required dual instruction I flew it 450 miles home.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I believe the cabin is physically larger?

I've flown a 140 and it definitely felt smaller. That could just be the placebo effect of owing the arrow where I want to believe it's bigger and better :D (cuz I know it definitely is faster!)
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The pa28 was lengthened by 5 inches in the early 70s. That's the one of the differences between an og arrow and the arrow ii. The 140 never got the bigger fuselage even though it was built until '77. So yes, an arrow ii does have a lot more leg room than a 140, even though the width is the same.

And despite whatever she tells you, 5 inches is a lot :biggrin:
 
Let's see...

Buying Archer: about 20 hours in a PA28
Buying Lance: 0 hours of PA32 time but 150 hours of Piper time
Buying Seneca: 0 hours of PA34 time, 7 hours of multi and 750ish hours of Piper time.

And I didnt do a prebuy on the Seneca. Gasp!
 
I had about 25 hours in Decathlons when I bought my first one.

I also considered an Arrow or 182. Had at least 25 in each of those. If it was an oddball model like a Grumman or Beechcraft, I would at least insist on a trial flight.

Something like an RV should be super easy to find someone to give you a trial flight. RV owners love showing off their airplanes.

The further up the performance scale you go, the more it is about numbers vs feel.
 
Zero.
I trained in a C152 and had about 75 hours in the C152 when I bought into my Warrior II (PA-28-161). It was a 50/50 partnership with a very good friend. I spent an hour in it with my C152 instructor and flew it better than he. Partnership lasted about 20 years until he hung up his wings and I became sole owner. I still own that plane and it's the only plane I've ever owned.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I think you meant to say the Arrow II was a magnificent aircraft, with superior flyability, getting knots a Cherokee 140 could only dream of, was more comfortable, and generally just an amazing airplane.

Sincerely,
Current Arrow II Owner :)
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I actually enjoyed flying the Arrow II more than the TA. The TA felt heavy and sluggish. The Arrow II felt light and nimble.
 
I bought my Socata Tampico with basically zero time in type. Let’s face it, it was a low risk purchase. An extremely docile aircraft built specifically for primary & instrument training.
It’s built for comfort, not for speed.
Insurance required a single, 40 minute checkout.
 
Racerx said:
Recently I've been toying with the idea of a commander. But don't know anyone locally with one.
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I considered a commander also. Asked my insurance agent if they carried paper on anyone local who owned one, and they forwarded my contact info to a client who reached out. Judi Anderson in the Commander Owners Group was also really helpful.
 
As others have said, unless you're buying a common trainer or rental type airplane, most folks are buying with little to no time in type. Especially more complex airplanes.

Bought a Super Viking, a Twin Bonanza and a Duke all with zero time in type.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I bought my Socata Tampico with basically zero time in type. Let’s face it, it was a low risk purchase. An extremely docile aircraft built specifically for primary & instrument training.
It’s built for comfort, not for speed.
Insurance required a single, 40 minute checkout.
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A sub-1 hour checkout? That's the shortest I've ever heard. But nice!
 
I purchased a liberty xl2 ,with no time in type. Couldn’t find a CFI ,insurance let me get a couple of hours with the mechanic who delivers the airplane
 
ateamer said:
I got a one-minute checkout to fly a friend’s Ercoupe. “Master’s here, fuel valve’s up here behind the panel, set the trim lever to Takeoff, climb and fly final at 70, go have fun!”
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That is some robust transition training!
 
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