thoughts on middle row club seating

[eman1200]

Really? I've only been in the club seating ones, but it would seem like getting into the middle row of the forward facing middle seats would be no worse than getting into the back of a PA28.

Agreed. And I've loaded golf bags in the back of a coupl'a Cherokees. Not ideal, but like u said not much different.

 

[Hank S]

I know people with Cherokee 6s who remove the middle seats and use the hole for baggage, with pax in the third row. They pay a significant fuel penalty when flying solo or with 1 pax for lunch, though. It's all about your mission, only you can decide if it fits.

 

[Brad Z]

Same case could be made for the forward seating. It's not really possible to load the middle row seats in the forward facing configuration through the front door...

Wait, you have your passengers craw into the middle seat from the rear door, and not from the wing like a PA-28?

For reference for others, that means climbing over the hump from the back. I guess if they're kids, but I can't imagine loading adults that way. Pic attached.

 

[ahkahn]

Wait, you have your passengers craw into the middle seat from the rear door, and not from the wing like a PA-28?

For reference for others, that means climbing over the hump from the back. I guess if they're kids, but I can't imagine loading adults that way. Pic attached.

Correct.

The front seats don't fold down, so if you load through the front door they would have to slip in between the two front seats which would be really tough. Wife told me I was wrong...

Entering the middle row seats requires is easier loading through the rear door and then scooting up to the middle seats.

That's why I said in my original commentary the rough part about the forward-facing is entering and exiting the plane. That's why I said those pax have to sit with their feet to the side so the front seat pilot/co-pilot pull their seats forward to give them leg room.

EDIT: That pic looks a little misleading. It almost looks like the front co-pilot seat has been removed! I'll post a pic that I have of mine... standby

EDIT 2: OK, so wife says that we can fold the front seats down... just as soon as I found a pic that has one. I asked her why we prefer to load middle seat pax through back and her response was that, "we usually put the kids in the middle and either they climb or it's easier for me to put the car seat in from the rear." She did also say, though, that once you're there, the middle row seats are more comfortable. Why? Because you have extra legroom and can put your feet down in front.

I attached a few pics to illustrate from different angles...

 

[Hank S]

Wow! That's not an airplane, that's a bus!! Really emphasizes the meaning of "shirt body Mooney." I'm in awe . . . .

 

[USAF JD]

I always load the middle passengers fron the wing like a PA-28. My rear passengers always comment how easy the Grumman was to get in and out of...

 

[weilke]

The middle row seats in the 1981 A36 have a unlock lever for the seatback. If there is only one middle row pax, it is easy to board from the back.

The PA32 without the cooler or 7th seat installed has an aisle that allows reasonably slim pax to board from the back.

With the family, I usually have club-seats. Two in the last row, a backpack belted into one of the rear facing seats and one kid up front to 'help' me flying. Both kids have ridden in the middle row facing backwards and didn't mind it. The third row seats have a weight limitation and are quite narrow, works for my crewbut wouldn't work for two 250lb males.

 

[eman1200]

ok so I checked out this Cherokee 6-260 yesterday. nice looking plane, paint is decent and interior was nice and clean and in good shape. I sat in the middle seat and the far back seat. there is no way a full size adult could sit comfortably in the way back. I'm 4' 22" and could not sit up straight, forget about if I had a headset on. they are perfect for kids tho. the middle row seat was quite comfortable and, like I mentioned earlier, has the best access to the drink cooler.

IF the back seats are easy to remove, it's a great setup for hauling stuff. people have talked about bikes and golf clubs and whatnot....would be no problem at all if you could easily remove those seats.

 

[ahkahn]

ok so I checked out this Cherokee 6-260 yesterday. nice looking plane, paint is decent and interior was nice and clean and in good shape. I sat in the middle seat and the far back seat. there is no way a full size adult could sit comfortably in the way back. I'm 4' 22" and could not sit up straight, forget about if I had a headset on. they are perfect for kids tho. the middle row seat was quite comfortable and, like I mentioned earlier, has the best access to the drink cooler.

IF the back seats are easy to remove, it's a great setup for hauling stuff. people have talked about bikes and golf clubs and whatnot....would be no problem at all if you could easily remove those seats.

4' 22"??

The seats are all easily removed with a 1/2 turn on a flathead screw on the two rear legs.

 

[Pilawt]

I posted part of this 1980 Piper ad earlier; here's the whole thing. Not vouching for the accuracy of the artwork, but it's a clever comparison.

 

[MikeTuggle]

So in that last image, for the Saratoga, what is the sitting height (butt to top of head) for the two pax rows with the club seating?

Does a tall person have to still sit hunched over?

 

[Pilawt]

So in that last image, for the Saratoga, what is the sitting height (butt to top of head) for the two pax rows with the club seating?

Does a tall person have to still sit hunched over?

Here's my grandmother and my son (then about 18 years old, probably 5'9" or so) in the back row of a club-seating Saratoga.

 

[eman1200]

TOGA!! TOGA!! TOGA!!

would love a toga, too pricey for me.

 

[ahkahn]

Here's a pic of FIL and son in the back seat. He's around 5'11". Headroom is no issue.

 

[asicer]

Here's my grandmother and my son (then about 18 years old, probably 5'9" or so) in the back row of a club-seating Saratoga.

No headsets? That must have been quite a while ago.

 

[Fearless Tower]

No headsets? That must have been quite a while ago.

Depends on whether it was ever upgraded.

The PA32s were coming from the factory as late as the early 80s without any intercom/headset jacks for the back.

 

[ahkahn]

My passengers in the back will often talk to each other without headsets. It's quiet enough in the cabin that you don't really need them. Keep in mind, a PA-32 has the cargo compartment between the engine compartment and the cabin which helps.

 

[petrolero]

Can club seats be reconfigured to standard and vice versa in any of the aircraft under discussion? Or are you married to one or the other?

(and to further a bad analogy) Such that divorcing yourself from that config is expensive?

 

[ahkahn]

Can club seats be reconfigured to standard and vice versa in any of the aircraft under discussion? Or are you married to one or the other?

(and to further a bad analogy) Such that divorcing yourself from that config is expensive?

Legally, you're married to it.

There are hack-job modifications that have been made, which is something you must check very closely for when buying a plane. Not only is it not legal, but both the seats and floor "hump" are designed slightly different. The only "correct" way to do it would be to change the seats and the floor hump... but still not legal.

 

[petrolero]

Legally, you're married to it.

There are hack-job modifications that have been made, which is something you must check very closely for when buying a plane. Not only is it not legal, but both the seats and floor "hump" are designed slightly different. The only "correct" way to do it would be to change the seats and the floor hump... but still not legal.

Damn that's more permanent than marriage. Choose wisely, I guess.

I think I'd prefer standard config but knowing I can never change?

 

[weilke]

Can club seats be reconfigured to standard and vice versa in any of the aircraft under discussion? Or are you married to one or the other?

(and to further a bad analogy) Such that divorcing yourself from that config is expensive?

With the exception of a couple of early model years, the A36 and later G36 has a flexible cabin configuration. The POH has diagrams with the different configurations and W&B information to adjust accordingly. The middle row seats can be turned around (shoulder belt integrated in the back rest) and the back seats can be taken out to allow for additional cargo space.

 

[Klockow]

Legally, you're married to it.

There are hack-job modifications that have been made, which is something you must check very closely for when buying a plane. Not only is it not legal, but both the seats and floor "hump" are designed slightly different. The only "correct" way to do it would be to change the seats and the floor hump... but still not legal.

Are you sure it's not legal? What if you have the 2 different floorboards (one forward and one rear), 5 middle row seats (3 forward facing and 2 rear), and the appropriate hardware/seat belts? A/P entry with a change of W/B...

 

[eman1200]

Here's my grandmother and my son (then about 18 years old, probably 5'9" or so) in the back row of a club-seating Saratoga.

man, your son is that dude from the breakfast club?

 

[Reedster]

Our Saratoga has the front facing middle row with the 7th seat.

I am 6' and it always seems like the person sitting in the right seat is about the same. With my seat where I keep it, there is about 4" of leg room. So if we use that row, generally it is for one adult who sits across it with their legs on the other side.

With shorter people up front, it wouldn't be as bad.

The pic is of the leg space between the front and middle row, with my seat in its usual position.

I always give middle row passengers the option of loading from the wing, showing them how the seat folds forward, or climbing in from the back. Mostly people climb in from the front, but some people have climbed over from the back.

 

[ahkahn]

Are you sure it's not legal? What if you have the 2 different floorboards (one forward and one rear), 5 middle row seats (3 forward facing and 2 rear), and the appropriate hardware/seat belts? A/P entry with a change of W/B...

Hmmm... you got me there. From what I know the floorboard is different, middle seats are different, mounting hardware is different, and seatbelts are different.

Maybe you could do a legal conversion by swapping out the middle seats, floorboard, mounting hardware, and seatbelts, A/P signoff with a 337.

But, that's as permanent as the original configuration... and I'm sure you're talking at least 7-10 AMU's all in.