Those monsters

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Mtns2Skies, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,408
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mtns2Skies
    Lachlan likes this.
  2. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,671
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Wonder how long it takes to recharge the batteries. Probably won’t be doing quick turns with it.
     
    TCABM, TipTanks and Salty like this.
  3. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    PALH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ES
    After reading the article, it seems like they're only refitting the beavers that have already been ruined with the PT6. And, they said it would take an hour of charge per hour of flight, but that will get better with new battery tech.

    I wonder if the eBeaver will be flown by the senior pilots, or if the junior pilots will?
     
    Mtns2Skies likes this.
  4. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,367
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Will never see the light of day. But will make a few people rich along the way to failure.
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  5. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,766
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    I like em big and round.
     
    flyingcheesehead and TCABM like this.
  6. TCABM

    TCABM Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,098
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3G
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  7. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,861
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    I fully expect it to see the light of day. 'It' as in one plane. Commercial success? Or even an STC approval for commercial passenger flight? That's another story. But electrification will happen, hopefully in my lifetime.
     
  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    31,359
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
  9. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,243
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cap'n Jack
    I've flown on them a couple of times. That actually is a good place to start electric planes, if the numbers mentioned about the recharge time is correct. One flight I took was a little longer than 30 minutes (Whistler to Vancouver), but the time between flights was more than an hour. As stated, some of the other flights are 30 minutes (or less).
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  10. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,699
    Location:
    Hopewell Jct, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shepherd
    Blasphemy.
     
  11. IK04

    IK04 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    45 minutes of charge time for each hour of run time. HA HA HA HA!
     
  12. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    508
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    I bet that takes more than a 14 gauge extension cord? o_O
     
    Pilawt likes this.
  13. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,232
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Looks good on paper.
     
  14. TipTanks

    TipTanks Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    110
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    TipTanks
    Harbour Air is a fantastic operator... and they are all about going green. I agree with you... this model would be a good place to start. My question is how do you stay charged. This operation is a turn and burn model, with flights leaving every hour, and turning around to come back. That is how they do well. How can you charge an airplane and continue this?
     
  15. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    11,178
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    beavers and batteries...…….whod'a thunk?
     
    Jim_CAK, SkyDog58, 1RTK1 and 2 others like this.
  16. Turningfinal

    Turningfinal Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    436
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Turningfinal
    I suspect that's something they've figured out, at least partially. I imagine the initial aircraft would be used on a route with a fairly decent turn time to allow time to charge.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  17. Fallsrider

    Fallsrider Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fallsrider
    I wonder about reserves. I would think you would need the same minimum reserves as you would with gas or jet fuel planes.
     
    TipTanks likes this.
  18. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,499
    Location:
    Miami
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    alfadog
    Reminds me of those sci-fi movies where vintage cars are all electric. Just rewatched In Time and they had "electric" 70's Chargers (appropriate) and an "electric" XKE.
     
  19. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,499
    Location:
    Miami
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    alfadog
    Article says 30 minute reserve.
     
  20. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,243
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cap'n Jack
    It probably depends on the routes. The routes I flew on had slower turnaround, so it was about an hour between landing and the departure.
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    22,222
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    But, But, But they are going to have a network of superchargers where you can talk with other pilots that don't shower and smell like patchouli while waiting for a plug to free up!
     
    SCCutler likes this.
  22. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    State of Confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chartbundle
    Hmm, our local airport is trying to get air service to anywhere, looks like an electric beaver could just about manage it.
     
  23. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,671
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    They said 30 minute flight with a 30 minute reserve.
     
  24. Gwt9678

    Gwt9678 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    17
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Gt1009
    I think the ticket to any of these electric commuter planes is going to be to have a removable battery that can be charged at the terminal, and a new fully charged battery swapped in for the flight. No different than filling up the fuel tank really!
     
  25. Fallsrider

    Fallsrider Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fallsrider
    Thanks, I missed that. That's quite a bit of flying time for something that heavy.
     
  26. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12,535
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    Beavers?
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  27. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    4,159
    Location:
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoonerAviator
    I thought Fleshlight already had the market covered, lol.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  28. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    PALH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ES
    Just like the lipos in my RC planes...why the heck would they permanently mount them? 4 packs would keep me flying non-stop, RC wise. I see the battery packs being a slide in a slide in and out compartment. Maybe even jettison-able. :O (for the getoffmylawn and thatllneverlast types that think batteries are dangerous-er than 100LL)
     
  29. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,499
    Location:
    Miami
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    alfadog
    The Beaver came with the 450 HP Wasp Jr. I know they are specing a 750 HP motor but figure 300 HP average over the trip. 300 HP x .746 kW/HP = 223 kW or 223 kWh for their stated endurance. For the Tesla S, "90kWh pack has 7,616 cells; battery weighs 540kg (1,200 lb)", so we are looking at about a 3000 lb battery pack.
     
  30. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    5,099
    Location:
    Discovery Bay, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave
    The part none of this scheme mentions is, Li-Ion batteries work a lot worse in the winter time. As much as 30-35% worse. If this operation was in Hawaii with the same temps all year round, the it would make sense but the Pacific Northwest can get cold. Maybe their 30 minutes of flight with 30 minutes of reserve is worst case based on winter temperatures, but I seriously doubt it.

    I have no doubt a demonstrator plane will be built and it will fly wonderfully and get a lot of press and it's 15 minutes of fame, but I suspect when the real world numbers come in, they will go into a holding pattern, waiting for better batteries once again. I hope they find them though, because I would convert my plane, or trade it in a heart beat for an electric version.
     
  31. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,308
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grundle Brush
    I’ve flown with lots of guys who worked radials, and they are all very glad to be in turbine equipment. Radials are losing their commercial viability hence why operators are starting to fork over 7 figure numbers to convert them. It’s unfortunate, and I love the sound of radials, but it’s just business. There’s a reason there aren’t any recip Otters flying around any more. It’s hard to argue with 30gph in a recip beaver burning 100LL at $5/gal vs 45 gph @$2/gal along with a much higher dispatch reliability rate due to the MUCH lower amount of maintenance.

    I also definitely see a market for the electric beavers as the technology improves - they will need to figure out a way to charge them quicker but I could see them being very popular with sightseeing companies, of which there are many.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  32. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    5,099
    Location:
    Discovery Bay, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave
    Yes there are. Here in my area there is an operator that runs sight seeing in a Beaver on floats in San Francisco Bay. It would be a huge hit here if they could make it work out.
     
  33. jim.nelson

    jim.nelson Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Egg Harbor, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    It's not a problem dragging a huge high power electric cord over the dock to a plane floating in water?
     
  34. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    496
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Smith
    Making these planes electric with a horde of high-tech batteries will give an inflight electrical fire a whole new level of excitement.
     
    Eric Stoltz and Tantalum like this.
  35. TipTanks

    TipTanks Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    110
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    TipTanks
    Yes. Their bread and butter is Vancouver Harbour to Victoria and Nanaimo. Business commuters.. Those are turn and burn routes.
     
  36. CharlieK

    CharlieK Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CharlieK
    Going green is good! Fire up those coal, oil, and gas power plants to make more of that green electricity!
     
  37. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    582
    Location:
    PALH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ES
    95% of BC's electricity is generated from renewables. The rest is from biomass. Coal based power generation has been eliminated in Ontario and Quebec. Makes greener sense than say, the US east of the Mississippi.
     
  38. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    508
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    That's a great thought if you're in British Columbia where you have thousands of acres of unused land that you can dedicate to storing water and enough elevation change to make hydro power profitable, but here in the flat lands, every foot of water takes up a lot of land space which is used for ag production. Somebody's got to feed the world.
     
  39. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,861
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    As I like to tell people, there's a lot more energy in your Taurus's fuel tank than a Tesla's batteries.
     
  40. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,861
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Yeah, kill that fish migration, and grind up some raptors.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.