Those Beacon Lights - - -

That linked to Shockwave file which I can't see on this device, but is that those two morons who climb with their harnesses off? I think someone mentioned on towertalk that their company got their insurance cancelled for their little video.
 
Nate: It works for me. After a short animation the video is from TheOLE.org. It is two guys climbing to 1768 feet to work at the top of the tower, though I don't know if it's the ones you reference. These two must have harnesses because the lead guy is shown reattaching his safety line every few steps. The other one is doing the camera work.

HR
 
Good lord. I don't mind being up in a plane, but watching that... I had to stop it.
 
Sounds like the video I was thinking of. It's been out for a while.

The guy unclipping and reclipping is supposed to be utilizing two lanyards and should NEVER be unclipped from the structure by more than one clip.

Most modern towers also have a cable on climbing ladders or pegs that allows for a chest-mounted sliding safety device that can ascend but not descend if not released by the wearer.

Most insurers require this stuff as well as OSHA.

Older towers don't have the gear but it can be retrofitted or the current "never unclipped" methods are utilized.

Is it all ignored, a lot? Yeah. But not on a publicly posted video...
 
(Shudder!)

"Never" is an amazingly broad concept, but I really cannot imagine the circumstances under which I would willingly do that.
 
Guided tower? Is it going somewhere?
 
Guyed tower. Lots of people make that mistake. Very common.

Guy wires too, not "guide wires". ;)
 
Wow - actually I guess I'm one of the few that think this would be fun, I've always loved that sort of thing...

Right up until I have to do it early one morning in 300 feet visibility, 34 degrees and 26 knots of north wind with occasional light rain. Up until that point, yeah - I'm all good! :D
 
Tom Cruise's day job

article-1323274116002-0F178C2F00000578-587634_466x623.jpg
 
denverpilot said:
Sounds like the video I was thinking of. It's been out for a while.

The guy unclipping and reclipping is supposed to be utilizing two lanyards and should NEVER be unclipped from the structure by more than one clip.

Most modern towers also have a cable on climbing ladders or pegs that allows for a chest-mounted sliding safety device that can ascend but not descend if not released by the wearer.

Most insurers require this stuff as well as OSHA.

Older towers don't have the gear but it can be retrofitted or the current "never unclipped" methods are utilized.

Is it all ignored, a lot? Yeah. But not on a publicly posted video...
Click to expand...

Shoot, at that height, I'd feel safer with a parachute than a lanyard! :D Even from the elevator platform, it'd be a piece of cake for a BASE jumper (provided they stay away from the guy wires on the way down).
That last ladder (looks like just hunks of rebar welded to the pole) is a little scary. Being open-ended, the rungs aren't very useful points to clip the lanyard. You fall and start swinging, the hook might just slip right off there. I wonder how much the top part of that structure moves if there's wind? I'd be OK up there unless it was moving a lot.
 
This raises several questions;

What if the guy need to use the bathroom?

Is the company that owners that tower meeting all the guidelines and regulations of the Americans With Disabilities Act?

Just because a person is confined to a wheelchair, should they be denied that kind of job? That tower should have wheelchair access.

As a side note, a few years back, my small retail business was sued under the Americans With Disabilities Act. You would not believe the nonsensical stuff we had to do as a result of that.

The act is written in such a way that there can only be one winner in such an action, the plaintiff. Any lawyer could pick up some quick bucks by suing that tower company under the AWDA.

John
 
airguy said:
Wow - actually I guess I'm one of the few that think this would be fun, I've always loved that sort of thing...
Click to expand...

I've put tv antennas on towers up to 300 ft before. One was 50ish feet on top the top corner of a 20 story building and more intimidating than the towers in a field somewhere just because the first step starts at 200ft. There are no guard rails on the roofs of those type places either. One step and you're done.

What if the guy need to use the bathroom?
Click to expand...

Pee downwind away from the tower.

Is the company that owners that tower meeting all the guidelines and regulations
Click to expand...

If they can do the job, sure why not. Otherwise this is one of those real world non touchy feely situations of "here's a lightbulb, there is the socket, go for it."

Hmmm... Is the fear of heights considered a disability? If so, should those people should be given tower light bulb changer jobs over those of us who aren't afraid to be up there? What does the tower owner have to do to the tower for it not to be scary to those people?
 
fgcason said:
Pee downwind away from the tower.
Click to expand...

This works in light winds. In strong winds, ya really wanta be crosswind with all equipment fully deployed while leaning back.

(of course I don't know this from experience or nothin' just heard it in barroom tales, yeah, that's it, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it)
 
OSHA allows free climbing? Guess the inspector never took the trip to the top. I was ready to stop at the top of the elevator.
And did you notice? When he attached the rope for a pause, it was on an open ended point. I'm not trusting my life to that.
 
Those open-ended pegs are freaky, I'll grant you that.

Squaw Mtn here has those and they're a lot more stable than they look, but folks are right that the carabiner can jump them.

You try to minimize your time on those. Unfortunately when there's 100' of them on a pole, you just have to go up. I usually flip one rope on one, then put the other lanyard on the other side so if I take a wild bounce after a fall, one of them might catch me. But that's too slow to do at every rung. So without a slider cable you're stuck free-climbing them.

There are some towers that attach a retractible drop-stopping inertia cable reel up top, that you leave reeled out and locked at the bottom for the next guy, so if you fall you do the intertia-reel screeching halt thing. Never had to find out the hard way if those work or not, yet.

Nothing says, "Three points of contact with hands and feet at all times while moving", like open pegs! One handhold at a time.

Lots of these guys free-climb a few hundred feet at a time. No fear at all. I won't do it. "I'll see ya up there in ten minutes." Works for me! :)

I'll also admit that I'd much rather climb a tower than climb my own ladder placed against the house to get to the gutters. I do both but don't really like either one.
 
By the way... The proper way to stop and take a break on those peg poles is to run your lanyard AROUND the pole twice and clip it into your waist-carabiners on your harness. Then leeeeean back. Put more loops if it's too long. The peg won't let the loop move downward and once you've leaned back your hands are free to relax.

As long as you have decent boots on, you're just standing there. Bad shoes, the pegs are digging into the center of your feet. Hurts the feet after a full day climbing. It's also how you stop midway up to install something.

That first time you leeeeean back is a freaky feeling. Leaning away from the structure triggers every "I'm going to fall" alarm in your head. Freaky.
 
SCCutler said:
(Shudder!)

"Never" is an amazingly broad concept, but I really cannot imagine the circumstances under which I would willingly do that.
Click to expand...


Amazing what you find yourself able to do when hard pressed by bills.
 
rottydaddy said:
Shoot, at that height, I'd feel safer with a parachute than a lanyard! :D Even from the elevator platform, it'd be a piece of cake for a BASE jumper (provided they stay away from the guy wires on the way down).
That last ladder (looks like just hunks of rebar welded to the pole) is a little scary. Being open-ended, the rungs aren't very useful points to clip the lanyard. You fall and start swinging, the hook might just slip right off there. I wonder how much the top part of that structure moves if there's wind? I'd be OK up there unless it was moving a lot.
Click to expand...


Try it up a 120' mast in 20' seas... :popcorn:


It doesn't matter much how high something is above 50' or likely even 30', although there is always the freak infinitesimally small chance of survival of the fall, longer falls have been survived than from that tower. One of them was a guy who fell from aircraft operating altitude, bad chute and into a hay pile; all of them I have seen real documentation on, a handful at most, had some cushioning/deceleration extending instance in the last 20'.
 
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Henning said:
Try it up a 120' mast in 20' seas... :popcorn:


It doesn't matter much how high something is above 50' or likely even 30', although there is always the freak infinitesimally small chance of survival of the fall, longer falls have been survived than from that tower. One of them was a guy who fell from aircraft operating altitude, bad chute and into a hay pile; all of them I have seen real documentation on, a handful at most, had some cushioning/deceleration extending instance in the last 20'.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke
 
bartmc said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke
Click to expand...

Yeah, she's another one, surprising how little it takes. I always figured what happened was she went down on her back strapped into the seat falling ass first through the vegetation canopy with the seat back shielding her body from point impacts and intrusions. Only to get infested with bot flies...:vomit:
 
Henning said:
Amazing what you find yourself able to do when hard pressed by bills.
Click to expand...

True enough.

---

When I see the guy climbing on those little pegs, I can't help wondering about some of the incredibly poor hardware I see coming from (principally) China. Food for thought."

As for OSHA regs, there is some recognition of certain kinds of work which are just plain hazardous, the hazards of which cannot be cured by (for example) workplace design or equipment. You'd better believe, though, that you have to demonstrate training, policies and procedures to the maximum extent possible.
 
Similar to aviation, the controlling factor is often insurance not OSHA. Your tower company has a bad accident, it's probably going through the bankruptcy car wash to start operating again under a new name next year...
 
Wow, I'm not afraid of Heights but that video made my stomach feel funny! I kept feeling like he wasn't taking his handholds seriously :yikes:! Then his partner gets to the top and just puts the tip of his hook in that little hole....well, you know what I'm talking about!:rofl:
 
Why is it that we can fly in a small airplane and the notion of being high up never crosses our mind, at least in the sense of fear. Some of us can parachute out of a plane and the same thing, hight doesn't bother us at all.

However, the thought of standing on the very edge of a twenty story building without a rail or safety harness, makes most of us cringe with discomfort, much like that video did to most of us. It is not something we would want to do. Why is that?

We're pilots, we're not afraid of heights, but apparently we are.

John
 
John Baker said:
Why is it that we can fly in a small airplane and the notion of being high up never crosses our mind, at least in the sense of fear. Some of us can parachute out of a plane and the same thing, hight doesn't bother us at all.

However, the thought of standing on the very edge of a twenty story building without a rail or safety harness, makes most of us cringe with discomfort, much like that video did to most of us. It is not something we would want to do. Why is that?

We're pilots, we're not afraid of heights, but apparently we are.

John
Click to expand...

Some years back AOPA published something indicating that there were actually a higher percentage percentage of pilots uncomfortable with heights than the general population unless they believe themselves to have control of the situation. Standing at an edge? Not much control except to step from the edge or fall. Engin stops on a plane? I can glide myself down.
 
John Baker said:
However, the thought of standing on the very edge of a twenty story building without a rail or safety harness, makes most of us cringe with discomfort, much like that video did to most of us. It is not something we would want to do. Why is that?
Click to expand...

I was talking to someone at the north rim of the grand canyon this summer who was freaked out by the 3ft wide walkway, bridges and dropoffs. Even the guard rail area messed with her head. She hang glides, parachutes and rock climbs in conditions like that yet the heights there were terrifying her. Stand with toes over the edge and a harness/rope or take a running leap with a hang glider, no problem. No protection though is big scary stuff.
She said it wasn't the heights as much as how easy it is to just step off the edge and knowing what would happen at the bottom. It's just so easy to take that little step. She said she wasn't suicidal or anything and would never actually do it however the problem is in your head about how simple it is to just step off or let go without any protection.

A friend of mine says she's afraid of heights and yet we work in high fairly hazardous places. We figured out that the problem is really about physical support. Sit on a playground 4x4 railing 6 feet off the ground is no big deal as long as there is something no matter how small to lean against or just touch. Remove that tiny completely useless support by moving 2 inches away and the heights thing rears it's ugly head. Think about how you live every day when looking at things or sitting. People sit in chairs/seats with back rests and sofa's with arm rests. A bench without a back rest is ok however it's not comfortable and people get restless on it. They lean on the railing to look across the non hilly area. Except for walking most people always have something to keep them from falling over or to just hold them all the time. People lean and depend on that contact to keep them safe until they believe they need it. Lack of self trust? Lack of self confidence? Fear of the unknown? Fear of something unknown bumping you off balance? Take your pick.

Just possibilities on why...
 
I like climbing trees, but that video scares the crap out of me.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Some years back AOPA published something indicating that there were actually a higher percentage percentage of pilots uncomfortable with heights than the general population unless they believe themselves to have control of the situation. Standing at an edge? Not much control except to step from the edge or fall. Engin stops on a plane? I can glide myself down.
Click to expand...

I suspect that part of it is that the experience of piloting an aircraft enhances one's perception of heights. I think it's related to something I have noticed, which is that I see mountains and clouds in a more three-dimensional way than I did before I became a pilot.
 
I was on the verge of vomiting throughout most of that video.
 
denverpilot said:
Sounds like the video I was thinking of. It's been out for a while.

The guy unclipping and reclipping is supposed to be utilizing two lanyards and should NEVER be unclipped from the structure by more than one clip.

Most modern towers also have a cable on climbing ladders or pegs that allows for a chest-mounted sliding safety device that can ascend but not descend if not released by the wearer.

Most insurers require this stuff as well as OSHA.

Older towers don't have the gear but it can be retrofitted or the current "never unclipped" methods are utilized.

Is it all ignored, a lot? Yeah. But not on a publicly posted video...
Click to expand...

There is a latching hook made specifically for use on the mushroom head footpegs - which he should have been using (and not the "Gorilla Hooks" visible in the video) - although realistically you should have both, since the available attachment points are different at various stages of the climb.

No doubt there is a reason why the second climber's face is blurred out.

Dave
 
denverpilot said:
By the way... The proper way to stop and take a break on those peg poles is to run your lanyard AROUND the pole twice and clip it into your waist-carabiners on your harness. Then leeeeean back. Put more loops if it's too long. The peg won't let the loop move downward and once you've leaned back your hands are free to relax.

As long as you have decent boots on, you're just standing there. Bad shoes, the pegs are digging into the center of your feet. Hurts the feet after a full day climbing. It's also how you stop midway up to install something.

That first time you leeeeean back is a freaky feeling. Leaning away from the structure triggers every "I'm going to fall" alarm in your head. Freaky.
Click to expand...

You can get boots with reinforced insoles made specifically for climbing. You'd better have 'em for a job like that! Also, some harnesses have a seat built in to them - so you can sit while working or taking a break.

Dave
 
Every time I read a thread about that video, I think "gee, that'd be fun sometime- just to try once, say I did it". Then I watch the video and within oh, 10 seconds or so decide I'm fine down here on the ground.

I think height fear is a relativity thing. I don't much care for a 10' drop, because I can see the ground approaching. Jump from a plane, can't see the ground close enough to actually tell it's rushing towards you (from my one-time experience). In a plane, no thought to the thousands of feet between us and something very hard, but it's no problem because we're inside an object. It's like the apparent speed difference between an motorcycle, small car, and a big truck. Bike seems way faster at a given speed, truck way slower. I think it's the level of detail we're able to resolve. Closer to the ground we see more rushing past. High up in a truck everything is just a little farther away so our brain can't determine object size as well (was the line on the road 38" long, or 24"???). At least, that's how I've figured my distaste for heights is wired. Kyle
 
If you like that video; and have Netflix ... checkout the Big Fixes series
with Sean Riley. 2,000' tower work. Also a show that includes footage
of checking transmission lines using a Hughes 500.
 
cessna182b said:
You can get boots with reinforced insoles made specifically for climbing. You'd better have 'em for a job like that! Also, some harnesses have a seat built in to them - so you can sit while working or taking a break.

Dave
Click to expand...


Those "logger boots" and the harnesses are a must for climbers. Even with a bad back , I can stand on a ladder or on pole steps and gaffs all day long with my steel shanks. @ 200 bucks a pair , it's worth every penny.
 
Yesterday I went on a motorcycle ride with several friends. Two of them were also pilots one being an ATP and all of the initials that go with it. We got talking about heights and how this bothered him, the other ASEL pilot and I also admitted we were concerned about heights, but in an airplane or even parachuting that never bothered us. All along, I just thought it was me.
 
It's not just you. I've been on towers, roofs, masts, and was scared ****less every time. Never a problem in an airplane.

I also find medium heights on towers (say 30-100 feet) less scary. I think my brain has figured out:
below 30 feet I might live and be horrifically injured.
Above 100 feet I'll have too much time to see the ground approaching.

I was on a radio mast at Wildwood once and we were a couple of hundred feet up. I hated every second.
 
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