This one's pretty

Very clean airplane!


But

Recovered with cotton?
 
The aircraft was recovered in 1992 and repainted. Aircraft was recovered with original Cotton!
Click to expand...
 
That's a nice looking plane. But for some reason tube and fabric and tricycle gear seems like a contradiction to me.
 
Coincidentally, look what one of our EAA members flew to this morning's meeting:

25438508830_2111a58abc_z.jpg


Sweet little plane!
 
I can't imagine ANYONE spending 33K on a colt. Almost rather have one that was flown more.
 
Is it supposed to be $33k because it's nearly original, with cotton fabric? I really hate the airgizmo dock on the panel...yuck!

It seems to me old Piper colts seem to go for about 1/2 of what they're asking. All depends on condition, of course.
 
It is pretty, but I don't think it's gonna have the useful load you're looking for
 
Seems high for a colt,it is a good looking airplane however.
 
I agree it's high for the average Colt, but this isn't your average Colt...I'm impressed with the cleanliness of the internals, which I would expect based on the story we're given on its storage history. Also interesting that the interior colors actually match with the exterior! Don't see that often on PA22's because of the complexity of an interior color change on them. (Mine matched, thankfully). And the 496 fits in the hole used for the original Narco Superhomer nicely. A fresh top overhaul and clean borescope inspection helps, too.

I'm just perplexed why someone, in 1992 would recover this sort of airplane in Grade A cotton when a synthetic of any kind would have been arguably a better choice. I covered mine in '91/92 in Stits Polyfiber, and have used Razorback on others in the past, but was raised on Grade A. I think you could get a better finish back then with dope and cotton or linen because of the finer weave, but the longevity and weather resistance was no contest. You don't store a cotton/linen covered plane outside if you want it to last more than 5-7 years before it fails a punch test on some part of its structure. In my experience Grade A will last a looong time if kept out of any direct sunlight except when in use. A Super Cub and Staggerwing come to mind, both kept in windowless hangars from Day 1- the PA18 went over 30 years with OEM fabric before being recovered in Ceconite.

I suppose the original owner figured since the Piper-installed cotton lasted 30 years the way he cared for it, why not go back with it again...
 
Last edited:
DaveA said:
I'm just perplexed why someone, in 1992 would recover this sort of airplane in Grade A cotton when a synthetic of any kind would have been arguably a better choice.
Click to expand...

Cotton is much lighter and does not require an STC to use. Many aircraft can not use Ceconite on flight controls because it is heavier than the flight control balance can stand
 
?
Most 'mainstream' fabric aircraft have had Ceconite and Stits STC's for decades...besides, by the FAA's own documentation, Ceconite and other Dacron types are LIGHTER than Grade A by at least an ounce per yard in most cases. What aircraft can't use anything but Grade A on flight controls today? That stuff is hardly available now, if at all, isn't it?
 
DaveA said:
?
Most 'mainstream' fabric aircraft have had Ceconite and Stits STC's for decades...besides, by the FAA's own documentation, Ceconite and other Dacron types are LIGHTER than Grade A by at least an ounce per yard in most cases. What aircraft can't use anything but Grade A on flight controls today? That stuff is hardly available now, if at all, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Exactly.

That's one nice colt, I'd even say it's worth the price based on the pictures IF it DIDNT have the dumb cotton job, frankly cotton brings it back to a 15-18k plane IMO.
 
DaveA said:
?What aircraft can't use anything but Grade A on flight controls today? That stuff is hardly available now, if at all, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Ag-cat for 1. Will you buy all I can deliver ?? Antiquers use a ton of the stuff on restorations.
 
Tom-D said:
So what?
Click to expand...

Labor is the biggest part of any recovering job. So why someone would use cotton on a Colt is beyond me. Cotton can be shot in five years in some conditions. It's organic, so fungus and pests eat it. UV weakens it faster.

If it was a 1929 Travel Air biplane, a purist might want to use cotton along with a lot of other ancient technologies to create the most authentic restoration possible, but for a guy who just wants to fly on a budget it makes no sense.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Labor is the biggest part of any recovering job. So why someone would use cotton on a Colt is beyond me. Cotton can be shot in five years in some conditions. It's organic, so fungus and pests eat it. UV weakens it faster.

If it was a 1929 Travel Air biplane, a purist might want to use cotton along with a lot of other ancient technologies to create the most authentic restoration possible, but for a guy who just wants to fly on a budget it makes no sense.
Click to expand...
If you want to fly on a budget, you wouldnt buy this airplane, I guess.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Labor is the biggest part of any recovering job. So why someone would use cotton on a Colt is beyond me. Cotton can be shot in five years in some conditions. It's organic, so fungus and pests eat it. UV weakens it faster.

If it was a 1929 Travel Air biplane, a purist might want to use cotton along with a lot of other ancient technologies to create the most authentic restoration possible, but for a guy who just wants to fly on a budget it makes no sense.
Click to expand...
What people do, or what they believe doesn't have to make sense to any one but them.
 
Tom-D said:
What people do, or what they believe doesn't have to make sense to any one but them.
Click to expand...

Until you're trying to demand top dollar for your plane.
 
James331 said:
Until you're trying to demand top dollar for your plane.
Click to expand...
Not every one is doing that, they build what they want, then die, and the family must deal with public opinion.
Then again, they may find the buyer that was born on the right minute.
 
Tom-D said:
Ag-cat for 1. Will you buy all I can deliver ?? Antiquers use a ton of the stuff on restorations.
Click to expand...

A. Huh? The Ag-Cat has been part of the Ceconite STC for decades- all fabric covered surfaces/components are approved.

B. Antiquers don't use a ton of it on restorations any more, either. Maybe the Smithsonian and some military museums... Diatex in England will sell you 'comparable quality' to Grade A but does it have a FAA TSO stamp? PMA?
 
Who determines the quality that can be used for covering aircraft ? see AC43-13 chapter 2.

AC 43.13-1B
9/8/98
2-4. AIRCRAFT FABRIC-NATURAL.
Physical specifications and minimum strength requirements for natural fiber fabric, cotton and linen, used to recover or repair components of an aircraft, are listed in table 2-1. Tear resistance is an important factor when considering aircraft fabric. A test method such as ASTM D 1424 is recommended. Technical Standard Order TSO-C15d, entitled Aircraft Fabric, Grade A (AMS 3806D); and TSO-C14b, Aircraft Fabric, Intermediate Grade (AMS 3804C) current edition, respectively, describe the minimum standards that all fabric must meet to qualify as aircraft covering material.

Where does that say a TSO is required?
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
Who determines the quality that can be used for covering aircraft ? see AC43-13 chapter 2.

AC 43.13-1B
9/8/98
2-4. AIRCRAFT FABRIC-NATURAL.
Physical specifications and minimum strength requirements for natural fiber fabric, cotton and linen, used to recover or repair components of an aircraft, are listed in table 2-1. Tear resistance is an important factor when considering aircraft fabric. A test method such as ASTM D 1424 is recommended. Technical Standard Order TSO-C15d, entitled Aircraft Fabric, Grade A (AMS 3806D); and TSO-C14b, Aircraft Fabric, Intermediate Grade (AMS 3804C) current edition, respectively, describe the minimum standards that all fabric must meet to qualify as aircraft covering material.

Where does that say a TSO is required?
Click to expand...

As you quoted above.....Right here: "Technical Standard Order TSO-C15d, entitled Aircraft Fabric, Grade A (AMS 3806D); and TSO-C14b, Aircraft Fabric, Intermediate Grade (AMS 3804C) current edition, respectively, describe the minimum standards that all fabric must meet to qualify as aircraft covering material."

There it is..... Have a nice day.
 
DaveA said:
As you quoted above.....Right here: "Technical Standard Order TSO-C15d, entitled Aircraft Fabric, Grade A (AMS 3806D); and TSO-C14b, Aircraft Fabric, Intermediate Grade (AMS 3804C) current edition, respectively, describe the minimum standards that all fabric must meet to qualify as aircraft covering material."

There it is..... Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
That AC gives you the quality requirements, so you can certify. it does set the requirements for a fabric. read it again. no where does it say a TSO is required.
If a linen table cloth meets the requirements, you can certify it. The TSO sets the requirements, it does not say a FAA stamp is required.
That's advertising propaganda from Poly Fiber
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top