Third Class medical reform moving forward albeit slowly

RotorAndWing said:
So how did this happen?


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Entirely consistent with separation of powers for Congress to exercise for itself power that was previously delegated to the Executive. Protestations to the contrary show a lack of understanding of the concept of separation of powers to tell the truth.

The precise wording of that law was...

(d) Sunset of Age 60 Retirement Rule.--On and after the date of
enactment of this section, section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of
Federal Regulations, shall cease to be effective.
 
Current text in the Draft PBOR 2 also says:

(d) PROHIBITION ON ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Administrator may not take enforcement action against a pilot of a covered aircraft who meets the qualifications specified in paragraphs (1) through (4) of subsection (a) unless the Administrator has published final regulations in the Federal Register under subsection (a).

That would work too.....
 
While we're waiting for all this to happen lets all go buy Iraqi Dinars. Then once it passes we will all be rich and buy brand new jets and fly them without our medicals. Only in fantasyland folks......
 
Yup. And if people are waiting on this stuff before taking flight then all this reform talk is doing a disservice to GA.
 
I'm waiting. I have a condition that will clear, but that will cost a big chunk of money for the tests to clear. Not doing anything until I know if i'll be wasting my money
 
CarvinCT said:
I'm waiting. I have a condition that will clear, but that will cost a big chunk of money for the tests to clear. Not doing anything until I know if i'll be wasting my money
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Cool if you've yet to have skin in the game. Some of us are sitting on a pile of aluminum and are having trouble deciding to **** or get off the pot.
 
steingar said:
The government can not move too quickly to do away with eh burdensome expensive and utterly useless 3rd class medical.
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It would be nice if we could specify when they can and when they can't move quickly. But it would take too long to figure that out and agree on it.

I wish they would move quickly repealing ...
Sorry, wrong folder.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Cool if you've yet to have skin in the game. Some of us are sitting on a pile of aluminum and are having trouble deciding to **** or get off the pot.
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I bet, sucks man.


Wise friend of mine used to say "if government is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question."

It's unfathomable to me that this has taken so long. When i started researching, I was amazed to see just how LONG this fight has gone on.
 
What fight? Who's fighting? What have you done to advance the proposals? What feedback have you received?

I've been thoroughly unimpressed with my own congressman and senators. And yes, I've contacted them multiple times about medical reform and other aviation issues. Blah, blah, blah. They're so used to making diluted statements to appease us with what we want to hear that I'm not sure they have the capacity to do anything else. And it shows. I, too, have "skin in the game". My best hopes rest on the FAA proposal. The chances of them getting something done are greater than congress getting anything done.
 
steingar said:
The government can not move too quickly to do away with eh burdensome expensive and utterly useless 3rd class medical.
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If you had stopped after the first seven words, I'd have had to agree -- the government just isn't capable of moving quickly on anything. :wink2:
 
Stewartb said:
What fight? Who's fighting? What have you done to advance the proposals? What feedback have you received?

I've been thoroughly unimpressed with my own congressman and senators. And yes, I've contacted them multiple times about medical reform and other aviation issues. Blah, blah, blah. They're so used to making diluted statements to appease us with what we want to hear that I'm not sure they have the capacity to do anything else. And it shows. I, too, have "skin in the game". My best hopes rest on the FAA proposal. The chances of them getting something done are greater than congress getting anything done.
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Well, I only made the decision to learn to fly a few months ago, and have already sent letters and made phone calls. Got some ideas about more I could do?

I got canned responses as usual, so I hit the phones.
 
Do what you can. You're the one talking about how LONG this fight has been going on. I remember signing the EAA petition a couple of years ago. That isn't long in government time. I appreciate the EAA and AOPA are making noise to move the proposal and right now with a new congress that's probably the best we can hope for. I figure I'll have a couple more SI renewals before anything really changes. I can live with that.

If nothing changes I'll still be thankful we have the LSA category and that remains an option for me to continue flying. The airplanes aren't as useful as what I'm used to but I can adapt.
 
Neal Howard said:
Delayed yet an additional two months. Won't be released for the comment period until 5/5/2015 now. See #18 in this document: http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/January 2015 Internet Report.docx
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Interesting -- the FAA actually beat the "new projected date" to get it to SecTrans by three weeks (albeit three weeks behind the original target date), but SecTrans has taken over six months to do what was supposed to take two weeks. :sigh: You want to blame someone, go ahead, but it's not the folks at 800 Independence Avenue who are delaying this one.
 
Does the new Pilots Bill of Rights 2 bill regarding 3rd class medical reform cover student pilots seeking a private pilot certificate? Or would student pilots have to get a 3rd class medical initially for PPL then let their medical expire? It is not clear on whether the Pilots Bill of Rights 2 cover student pilots or not.
 
N918KT said:
Does the new Pilots Bill of Rights 2 bill regarding 3rd class medical reform cover student pilots seeking a private pilot certificate? Or would student pilots have to get a 3rd class medical initially for PPL then let their medical expire? It is not clear on whether the Pilots Bill of Rights 2 cover student pilots or not.
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If it follows the sport pilot model, then a student pilot would not need a medical.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
would those that have lost their medical be able to fly again?
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Well, given that the bill is just a way to lean on the FAA, what is in there is irrelevant. And, since the FAA will be writing the rules, there is no reason to believe that the existing sport pilot bureaucratic ass covering would not be included in the new rules.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Well, given that the bill is just a way to lean on the FAA, what is in there is irrelevant. And, since the FAA will be writing the rules, there is no reason to believe that the existing sport pilot bureaucratic ass covering would not be included in the new rules.
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That is a confusing answer. to me.

Lets take bill.
Bill is 71 and has erectile dysfunction but does okay with his pills.
Bill also has a PPL.

Bill needs to get his 3rd class medical renewed so he goes to Dr Huxtable because he is so friendly and has those great sweaters.

The good doctor tells bill that all those pills have jacked his heart up. Remember the side effects from the commercial? Bill wasn't lucky enough to be the guy that got the 4 hour boner side effect, he got the heart problem.

The good Dr looks at Bill and says "Sit down.", offers him a pudding pop. Bill declines.

"Hate to say this bill but I can't renew your medical"

Bill pulls out a chart, sticks it on the wall. He grabs a little pen that looks like a boy named Mortimer and it makes little doodly noises as dr. Huxtable draws a diagram of Bill's heart and does a quick word find.

beep bodeedop doowap wah wah doodle beebop
"Here's your problem right here Bill"

Bill leaves sad and thinking of never flying again.
Goes to bed

In the morning he wakes up and the news tells a story of the 3rd class medical going away.

Bill hops out of the bed happy as the man with the 4 hour boner
"Heavens to Betsy!" He exclaims "I can fly!!!!! Legally"


Is bill right?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Well, given that the bill is just a way to lean on the FAA, what is in there is irrelevant. And, since the FAA will be writing the rules, there is no reason to believe that the existing sport pilot bureaucratic ass covering would not be included in the new rules.
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Why wouldn't they just go ahead and pass the bill, requiring the FAA to deal whatever is in it? They did it with the ATP knee-jerk reaction to Colgan, why not here?


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SixPapaCharlie said:
Bill hops out of the bed happy as the man with the 4 hour boner
"Heavens to Betsy!" He exclaims "I can fly!!!!! Legally"


Is bill right?
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Nobody really knows, and no one will know until the actual FAA rules are written and approved. I am speculating that the SP catch 22 will remain intact.

dans2992 said:
Why wouldn't they just go ahead and pass the bill, requiring the FAA to deal whatever is in it? They did it with the ATP knee-jerk reaction to Colgan, why not here?


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A knee jerk "we have to prevent this from ever happening again" reaction is just the opposite of this issue. There are enough Chicken Littles out there to make this bill a tough sell.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Bill needs to get his 3rd class medical renewed so he goes to Dr Huxtable because he is so friendly and has those great sweaters.

The good doctor tells bill that all those pills have jacked his heart up. Remember the side effects from the commercial? Bill wasn't lucky enough to be the guy that got the 4 hour boner side effect, he got the heart problem.

The good Dr looks at Bill and says "Sit down.", offers him a pudding pop. Bill declines.

"Hate to say this bill but I can't renew your medical"

Bill pulls out a chart, sticks it on the wall. He grabs a little pen that looks like a boy named Mortimer and it makes little doodly noises as dr. Huxtable draws a diagram of Bill's heart and does a quick word find.

beep bodeedop doowap wah wah doodle beebop
"Here's your problem right here Bill"

Bill leaves sad and thinking of never flying again.
Goes to bed

In the morning he wakes up and the news tells a story of the 3rd class medical going away.

Bill hops out of the bed happy as the man with the 4 hour boner
"Heavens to Betsy!" He exclaims "I can fly!!!!! Legally"


Is bill right?
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The question is, did Bill do the MedExpress thing before going in to see Dr. Huxtable, or did he do a "consultation" to avoid endangering his SP privileges?

If he blindly went in with an active MedExpress application, gave Huxtable the code and did a live 3rd class physical, then he will probably be just as screwed under the new rules. If he did the consult, then he hasn't been denied so the SP catch-22 doesn't apply.

So the likely answer is: it all depends...
 
dans2992 said:
Why wouldn't they just go ahead and pass the bill, requiring the FAA to deal whatever is in it? They did it with the ATP knee-jerk reaction to Colgan, why not here?
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The FAA isn't the problem -- SecTrans is. The FAA sent the proposed new regulations allowing a lot of private flying on a DL to DoT over six months ago, and DoT has been sitting on it ever since.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA isn't the problem
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Knowing how the FAA must change the FARs, I believe they would not want to go thru all the process, and rather Congress jamb it on them. then simply write the new rule. as required.

That way they (FAA) doesn't have to listen to us bitc- about it.
 
Tom-D said:
Knowing how the FAA must change the FARs, I believe they would not want to go thru all the process, and rather Congress jamb it on them. then simply write the new rule. as required.

That way they (FAA) doesn't have to listen to us bitc- about it.
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Except that the facts don't jibe with what you said. The FAA has already done everything possible to make the changes only to by stymied by the Department of Transportation, i.e., SecTrans. You cannot blame the FAA for the actions (or inactions) of their masters at DoT -- it's just not within their power to fix. You want to blame someone for this situation? Here's the person on whom to vent your frustration:

The Honorable Anthony Fox
Secretary of Transportation
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Ave, SE
Washington, DC 20590

...and not anyone in the FAA.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA isn't the problem -- SecTrans is. The FAA sent the proposed new regulations allowing a lot of private flying on a DL to DoT over six months ago, and DoT has been sitting on it ever since.
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Then this bill MAY be the result of some back-channelling between DOT and Congress...

DOT: I've got the regs ready, but you know if we put them out for comment a gazillion people will protest, saying "planes will start falling into our schools and other bat**** stupid stuff"
Congress: Let me solve that for ya - we'll put it in a bill, won't get much attention outside pilots, and then you can say we forced you to do it.


This may be wishful thinking, but lately my new Fed Job has given me a much better look at the political negotiations between the Branches, so it may have a grain or two of truth in it.
 
I wonder why the FAA proposal prohibits IFR and the bill does not?

Or do you think the FAA changed their mind and decided to approve IFR ops?
 
dans2992 said:
I wonder why the FAA proposal prohibits IFR and the bill does not?
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I'm not aware of anyone outside the ARC and other persons in the rulemaking process knowing what's in the FAA's proposal, and they're all strictly prohibited from disclosing what's in it. So I find it likely your question is assuming facts not in evidence unless you've got a stolen backchannel copy which perhaps you can share with the rest of us. Or are you confusing the AOPA/EAA proposal (which included VFR only along with several other parameters) with the FAA's still-confidential proposed regulations.
 
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