Third Class Medical / Alcohol Question (Prospective PPL Student)

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Guest, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hello all, hoping to start my PPL training very soon, but I'm a little concerned/unsure about all the stuff I've read here and elsewhere on trying to get a medical with an alcohol-related incident in my distant past.

    1) I've lived in MI since 2001.
    2) I was arrested and convicted of OWI here right around the time I moved (16 years ago).
    3) I do not recall the BAC.
    4) There is nothing on my driving record according to a check from DMV.org / backgroundchecks.com.
    5) I inquired to NHTSA/NDR in 2012 and received a letter back stating "We have searched the NDR database and found no records pertaining to you."

    You see where this is going... if it's not on my driving record and not in NDR do I need to report it? Would they do some other search that would turn it up?
     
  2. lbfjrmd

    lbfjrmd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    FAA HIMS/AME/ATC flight doc
    what is an ame to say ... yes it is to be reported.
     
  3. OP Guest

    OP Guest Guest

    Lol, of course.

    I have read the "DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table" and it seems I fall into condition C which requires an "Alcohol Event Status Report," correct?

    The Alcohol Event Status Report says the AME must defer if BAC is unknown, but the disposition table also says: "If the single event was 10 or more years ago, the BAC or court records are unavailable, and the AME has no concerns, call AMCD at 405- 954-4821 or the RFS to discuss."

    So what does that mean realistically in my case, third class medical, 16+ years ago and no record of any kind since?
    1) Is it possible the AME just calls AMCD/RFS and that's the end of it?
    2) Or do I need to start contacting the court and police department to see if there are still records and pull together all the information in the "Drug and Alcohol INITIAL" certification aid no matter what? And does this mean I need to go to a HIMS AME? Will I need to see a certified psychiatrist?

    Thanks
     
  4. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    Joe Farrell, yeah, him
    in addition to checking your driving record, go find out if there is a court record still. And GET the entire file.

    You are going to need to know what your BAC was - because if you cannot establish the time [over ten years] and amount [bac] of alcohol you will be treated as if you had more than 0.15 and will be referred to HIMS.

    So you need to go get everything you need - if you can prove you have had no other events in the last 10 years and your event was more than 10 years ago and uynder 0.15, then the AME can issue.

    Think like a lawyer in this - how do you prove it?

    1) DMV record going back to issuance in the state you live in. [if it doesn't show it doesn't show but it needs to show an issue date more than 10 years ago]

    2) Court file - to show the date of the offense and what the BAC was -

    If none of these records are available - and you can prove that there is no recoverable record of the juvenile offense . . . . well. I certainly cannot recommend the obvious decision tree there.

    The problem is alot of this stuff gets purged after you turn 18 with a juvenile offense -
     
  5. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    Where do you get juvenile? All I see is that he moved to Michigan 16 years ago . . .
     
  6. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    455 Bravo Uniform likes this.
  7. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The question is, “have you ever been....” not “if we look, can see if you’ve been convicted.” Contact Dr. Bruce Chien.
     
  8. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don't believe that long old stuff is not in a record somewhere, especially federal databases.
     
  9. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    As Dr. B says "Don't Lie." Lying typically ends up with all your certificates revoked.
    OP Guest gave you the official word. If you need help, find a good AME. There are a least two on this forum.
     
  10. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    I misread it - and failed to read it back.
     
  11. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    The DUI is most decidedly in a database somewhere accessible to FAA. Since 1996. It may not be on a current search, but it most decidedly is there. The Feds get monthly feeds and never delete the old ones. So if you ever have an accident, incident ATC deal, or even a disgruntled spouse calls you into the agency, you will eventually get the "Show cause why we should not revoke" your pilot certificates for lying to and agency of the federal government".

    The question does not say, "is there record of". It sez, "Have you ever in your life". Your are making the millenial mistake of using "DMV.org". You need to get Michigan DMV's search, it'll be there. And the Feds have it too.

    Just google Martha Stewart and see what they can do, if they think it's worth it. She was NEVER convicted of insider trading.
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Especially since Michigan doesn't have a "lookback" period for forgetting about DUIs like many other states. However, even if they did, as Bruce points out, the FAA archives the old records so even if it was deleted or expunged it stays (much as anything else in this internet age).
     
  13. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pre-Flight

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    I take the approach of "rip the band-aid off". That is to say, get it reported - and dealt with. From that point forward, it's a previously reported item, and now, safely and correctly, in your past.

    It might be a pain, but once the paperwork is processed, and the AME feels the issue is properly handled, you should need not worry about it again. Since you're just beginning your training, why not do this now, instead of have it come up at some later time? Any time later would be INCREDIBLY inconvenient compared to the minor delays that would be caused by dealing with it early in your flying.
     
  14. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    copy this phone number............ :)