Thinking of buying a C150 for time building

razorseal said:
They jump up significantly. 172s from the 50s go for some serious dough.

I did find a '61 Cherokee 150 that looked interesting at 55k. Looks like ifr capable too. That roof trim is def weird.

I got the time to look. I figured I'll get proficient bu years end and get something by jan '24.

I gotta do more research anyways.
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You might look at the baby Beeches. I think they're undervalued, and one would work well as both a time-builder and a family wagon. My B23 was a bargain.
 
sarangan said:
Flying 1000 hours doing circles in a Cessna 150 doesn't amount to much experience. If the employer is really that desperate, they can hire you at 250 hrs. Why ask you to fly in circles for 1000 hrs? I would be very skeptical of this opportunity.
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Might be an operator that types everyone.
 
razorseal said:
Insurance perhaps.

You can be skeptical about it. I'm not here to discuss the opportunity I have. Pilots have been hired as FOs flying corporate jets at 250. I've seen it and you can see for yourself too. I've learned alot of hiring is who you know and networking. I might not have the 1000 hours of a 21 yo cfi, or a 1200 hours of a 22 yo banner tower, but I have different qualities.

I did mostly vfr flying to my 400 hours "flying circles" 10 years ago and traveled most of florida. I got pretty good and extremely comfortable. Too bad it didn't stay with me but I'm very confident it will come back when I get some stick hours.

Adding 600 hours to that I will feel pretty confident in my abilities. 150 or whatever.
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Fair enough if that is indeed an insurance requirement. You said 'perhaps', so I assume you don't know for sure. Personally, I wouldn't invest that much of my time and money without knowing why I am doing it. But that's just me. You asked for advice in a public forum, but my skepticm seems to bother you. So why even ask? Just go for it and do it. At the very least you will have fun doing it.
 
sarangan said:
Fair enough if that is indeed an insurance requirement. You said 'perhaps', so I assume you don't know for sure. Personally, I wouldn't invest that much of my time and money without knowing why I am doing it. But that's just me. You asked for advice in a public forum, but my skepticm seems to bother you. So why even ask? Just go for it and do it. At the very least you will have fun doing it.
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I asked opinion about purchasing a plane. Not sure how what you answered is relevant to that.

I take all responses seriously and reply (I replied to every post made here) so I replied to yours as well and do take your input to heart. Just not here to ask if the 1000 TT was a scam or not.

it will be a blast to do it. being able to take out my own plane and fly whenever I want sounds so much fun. like i said, some might call it burning holes in the sky, but I will absolutely have a blast doing it. I really enjoyed it back in the day just renting a plane (had a guy that rented his older C172 for 100$ an hour wet, was an insane deal back in '14 for south florida). I made alot of memories with that plane.

I'm looking to buy a plane and fly. lol
 
found this ercoupe, and it's local to me. Just messaged the broker...

www.trade-a-plane.com

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale - 2414321

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale located in Stuart FL from 2414321. Search 1000's of Aircraft listings updated daily from 100's of dealers & private sellers.
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com

engine has 50 hours SMOH. not a 6 pack like I was hoping (what I'm used to) but...
 
razorseal said:
found this ercoupe, and it's local to me. Just messaged the broker...

www.trade-a-plane.com

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale - 2414321

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale located in Stuart FL from 2414321. Search 1000's of Aircraft listings updated daily from 100's of dealers & private sellers.
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com

engine has 50 hours SMOH. not a 6 pack like I was hoping (what I'm used to) but...
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That plane is at my home drome, KGIF, or was recently. I looked it over a few weeks ago. Nice looking coupe. Let me know if you come to see it.
 
I think you said you were excluding Light Sports from consideration to go with something “more familiar“ to you.

But…

1) A Light Sport is likely to be 30, 40 or even 50+ years newer than some of the “legacy“ aircraft you’re considering. All things considered, likely to have less wear and fewer issues with parts availability and maintenance issues in general. The avionics are likely to be newer and better integrated than even an upgraded panel in a “legacy” plane.

2) If you find an Experimental LSA, or one you can convert, you are then able to do all the maintenance you‘re comfortable with, and even your own Annual Condition Inspections with a 16 hour course.That in itself can save a small fortune in maintenance.

3) A ROTAX-powered LSA can sip as little a 4 or 5 gph, and can do it with high test auto fuel. Spark plugs are less than $4 each, they only take 3 qts of oil, and in my experience are at least as reliable as a Continental or Lycoming. So far, parts availability has been good.

At least take a look at the Flight Design CT, REMOS, Aeroprakt, or any one of several other quality brands out there. And, finally, I think they’re more fun to fly. In your situation, it’s definitely what I would choose.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think you said you were excluding Light Sports from consideration to go with something “more familiar“ to you.

But…

1) A Light Sport is likely to be 30, 40 or even 50+ years newer than some of the “legacy“ aircraft you’re considering. All things considered, likely to have less wear and fewer issues with parts availability and maintenance issues in general. The avionics are likely to be newer and better integrated than even an upgraded panel in a “legacy” plane.

2) If you find an Experimental LSA, or one you can convert, you are then able to do all the maintenance you‘re comfortable with, and even your own Annual Condition Inspections with a 16 hour course.That in itself can save a small fortune in maintenance.

3) A ROTAX-powered LSA can sip as little a 4 or 5 gph, and can do it with high test auto fuel. Spark plugs are less than $4 each, they only take 3 qts of oil, and in my experience are at least as reliable as a Continental or Lycoming. So far, parts availability has been good.

At least take a look at the Flight Design CT, REMOS, Aeroprakt, or any one of several other quality brands out there. And, finally, I think they’re more fun to fly. In your situation, it’s definitely what I would choose.
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Only drawback might be lack of IFR capability.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think you said you were excluding Light Sports from consideration to go with something “more familiar“ to you.

But…

1) A Light Sport is likely to be 30, 40 or even 50+ years newer than some of the “legacy“ aircraft you’re considering. All things considered, likely to have less wear and fewer issues with parts availability and maintenance issues in general. The avionics are likely to be newer and better integrated than even an upgraded panel in a “legacy” plane.

2) If you find an Experimental LSA, or one you can convert, you are then able to do all the maintenance you‘re comfortable with, and even your own Annual Condition Inspections with a 16 hour course.That in itself can save a small fortune in maintenance.

3) A ROTAX-powered LSA can sip as little a 4 or 5 gph, and can do it with high test auto fuel. Spark plugs are less than $4 each, they only take 3 qts of oil, and in my experience are at least as reliable as a Continental or Lycoming. So far, parts availability has been good.

At least take a look at the Flight Design CT, REMOS, Aeroprakt, or any one of several other quality brands out there. And, finally, I think they’re more fun to fly. In your situation, it’s definitely what I would choose.
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I don't think I said that, but if I did, I must have changed my mind. No problem in a LSA. I just don't know much about them. that's all. I pretty much went on trade a plane, set price from 15k to 50k and started looking. I didnt see any LSA there (unless I did something wrong in the search) Care to point me in the right direction for them?
Half Fast said:
Only drawback might be lack of IFR capability.
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I'm ok with that. I will get the IFR done in a rented 172 and get current. I dedicated about 10 hours of flying, which I think will be enough.
 
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Maybe I read too much into your “I did look at ercoupe and some LSAs, but I'm not too familiar with them so I stuck with a plane I'm familiar with.”

But do at least consider LSA’s. And E-LSA’s can be operated IFR, IF they have the appropriate equipment. Here’s what my Operating Limitations say (for my E-LSA Sky Arrow):

  1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.
  2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not familiar with the model, but if there are no surprises, this would seem ideal.
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I sent him a message. I'd have to figure out financing. I'm sure it's a bit more complicated than financing a car lol.

I could put 30-40% down and finance the rest.
 
As to the Zenith, the only small drawback in my book is the O-200. More expensive to maintain than a ROTAX, and heavier. Solo, not likely a problem, but I’d take a close look at the W&B to be sure.

I love Grummans - I’ve owned an AA5 an an AA5B - but I think you’d be way ahead with the newer Zenith. You can do maintenance on the Zenith from day 1 without taking a course - assuming you know your mechanical aptitude and limits. With the Grumman you’ll have to call an A&P for lots of little things you could probably handle yourself.

Question for the peanut gallery: I know some O-200’s run on MOGAS with an STC. Is it safe and legal to do so in an Experimental E-LSA?
 
it's a bit more than what I wanted to spend but we will see. that plane apparently is IFR capable as well. and new...

I am pretty mechanically inclined (car knowledge) but anything major, I'd want an A&P

Looking at the ercoupes right now as well... slow flying, perfect for building some time and cruising around. seems to be very wallet friendly.
 
FastEddieB said:
Is it safe and legal to do so in an Experimental E-LSA?
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Eddie, I don’t know about autogas in LSAs specifically, but I know many low-wing certificated planes can’t use it. I believe it has to do with the fuel’s vapor pressure and vapor lock at the fuel pump. High wings, of course, gravity feed.

Might be a concern with a low-wing LSA, too, but I don’t know for sure.
 
razorseal said:
to get current? sure. maybe more, maybe less? I haven't thought too much about that. I can do 600 hours, then 50 hours of IFR. I'm going to finish my multi engine too.
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I would suggest that the majority of the 600 hours should be under IFR and/or simulated instrument flight.
 
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Half Fast said:
Eddie, I don’t know about autogas in LSAs specifically, but I know many low-wing certificated planes can’t use it. I believe it has to do with the fuel’s vapor pressure and vapor lock at the fuel pump. High wings, of course, gravity feed.

Might be a concern with a low-wing LSA, too, but I don’t know for sure.
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Interesting.

Lots of ROTAX-powered Light Sports have low wings and seem to use mogas with with no major issues. In fact, my Sky Arrow is a high wing, yet is dependent on fuel pressure to feed the pylon-mounted ROTAX. No issues with vapor lock that I’m aware of.
 
Half Fast said:
Understand that some piddly little problem could easily ground you for a month or two while you wait for a part or a mechanic.
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That's why you should buy something like an Avid Flyer - lower cost to operate, and the only time you need to wait for an A&P is when you need the condition inspection. (OK, sometimes you have to wait for parts and Rotax 912 parts ain't any cheaper than Continental, but...)
 
FastEddieB said:
Interesting.

Lots of ROTAX-powered Light Sports have low wings and seem to use mogas with with no major issues. In fact, my Sky Arrow is a high wing, yet is dependent on fuel pressure to feed the pylon-mounted ROTAX. No issues with vapor lock that I’m aware of.
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More modern designs?

Some of the low-wing Pipers have to replace most of the fuel system to use mogas. New fuel pump (I think some need separate pumps for each tank) plus new and rerouted lines to keep them in cooler locations. My Musketeer isn’t approved for mogas at all, though the same engine in other planes can use it. It’s not an engine concern; it’s a fuel system concern
 
I second going the experimental route (see pic :) Cheaper to buy and operate. Spend $25k on the airplane to build the hours and rent what you need for IFR/multi. With Foreflight EFB
and ADS-b in/AHRS (Sentry, Stratux, etc) you have a quasi-glass cockpit. Go 120 MPH on 4 GPH or throttle back and turn circles. If you get the right model you can even do some vertical
circles :cool:
 
razorseal said:
He told me he will train me with all the IFR stuff as well.
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razorseal said:
He just wants me to get to 1000 TT and a plane he can train me in.
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razorseal said:
let me do some research on the er-coupe I really don't know much about it except hearing about it years ago and it's unique shape lol.
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You aren't going to get IFR training in a Champ or Ercoupe. Their panels just aren't big enough, and the electrical capacity of those that have generators is very limited.
farmrjohn said:
and the Alon Aircoupes came standard with pedals, the "coordinated control" without being an option.
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They did. I flew an Alon, one of the last ones built (1967) and it had the C-90 in it. That works out to the same power-to-weight ratio as a 150 (the 150 has a 16:1 pounds/horse ratio, the Aircoupe 16.11:1). Yet that Aircoupe flew circles around 150s, which I have plenty of time in. Those rudders are tiny and don't move much; they were intended to keep the airplane coordinated, and it doesn't take much rudder to do that. Having the pedals make crosswind takeoffs and landings safer.

When it comes to flying professionally, it's not just the flying. Knowing as much as you can about weather theory, theory of flight, and aircraft systems is also vital. There are way too many stupid accidents caused by ignorance in these areas. For example, can you interpret a METAR and tell me what the risk of fog formation might be? Or tell me what to expect in flight based on the GFAs, and what the ground winds might be at that distant airstrip that has no weather reporting at all? What an accelerated stall is? The operating principles of a turbine engine? What happens to pressures, temperatures and velocities in convergent and divergent ducts?

Lots of stuff that PPLs and a lot of CPLs just miss altogether.
 
Half Fast said:
The TT looks silly. Only a thousand hours since 1946?
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Something wrong there. And that 54 SMOH? In what year was that done?

So we might have issues with anything made of rubber like fuel hoses, oleo seals, the main gear donuts. Rubber doesn't age well, especially the older stuff. If that engine was overhauled 30 years ago, the gaskets and seals might all have to be replaced. Even the crankcase mating face sealant might be shot. Oil leaks everywhere. If it has been ground-run instead of flown, it might be (probably will be) a mass of rust inside. Ground running pumps a lot of moisture past the rings and into the case, and is normally driven off in flight as the oil temp gets up to 180°F or better.

Reality tends to demolish wishful thinking. Beware.
 
Dan Thomas said:
You aren't going to get IFR training in a Champ or Ercoupe. Their panels just aren't big enough, and the electrical capacity of those that have generators is very limited.

They did. I flew an Alon, one of the last ones built (1967) and it had the C-90 in it. That works out to the same power-to-weight ratio as a 150 (the 150 has a 16:1 pounds/horse ratio, the Aircoupe 16.11:1). Yet that Aircoupe flew circles around 150s, which I have plenty of time in. Those rudders are tiny and don't move much; they were intended to keep the airplane coordinated, and it doesn't take much rudder to do that. Having the pedals make crosswind takeoffs and landings safer.

When it comes to flying professionally, it's not just the flying. Knowing as much as you can about weather theory, theory of flight, and aircraft systems is also vital. There are way too many stupid accidents caused by ignorance in these areas. For example, can you interpret a METAR and tell me what the risk of fog formation might be? Or tell me what to expect in flight based on the GFAs, and what the ground winds might be at that distant airstrip that has no weather reporting at all? What an accelerated stall is? The operating principles of a turbine engine? What happens to pressures, temperatures and velocities in convergent and divergent ducts?

Lots of stuff that PPLs and a lot of CPLs just miss altogether.
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I never said it's just about the flying. I will study as well. I might know more about this stuff than most, or might know less than most. I am confident of my abilities to learn what I need to learn.

I'm 40 years old gents, I interview officers in a panel to hire or not hire them. I know I will need to study. I am rough around the edges, and it's been a while, but I will bring it back. I'm just looking for some help getting a plane.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Something wrong there. And that 54 SMOH? In what year was that done?

So we might have issues with anything made of rubber like fuel hoses, oleo seals, the main gear donuts. Rubber doesn't age well, especially the older stuff. If that engine was overhauled 30 years ago, the gaskets and seals might all have to be replaced. Even the crankcase mating face sealant might be shot. Oil leaks everywhere. If it has been ground-run instead of flown, it might be (probably will be) a mass of rust inside. Ground running pumps a lot of moisture past the rings and into the case, and is normally driven off in flight as the oil temp gets up to 180°F or better.

Reality tends to demolish wishful thinking. Beware.
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I dunno. I really don't think ercoupe is the answer to what I'm trying to do, although I'm willing to take a look.
 
razorseal said:
I never said it's just about the flying. I will study as well. I might know more about this stuff than most, or might know less than most. I am confident of my abilities to learn what I need to learn.
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Better get at it. The four top books here are Canadian; there are American equivalents. I was always amused at the shock on the faces of new students when they saw the stack of stuff there were expected to know. They thought flying was just like driving: not much bookwork.

And this is aside from the regulations. The AIM covers those, briefly, but for instructing and maintenance, a lot more knowledge is required.

1696874217598.png

I got a PPL in 1975. In 1992 I went to college to upgrade to CPL, IFR, Instructor, and then the Aircraft Maintenance Engineer's license (equivalent to A&P/IA, roughly). That last one takes four years. The stack of books for it is taller than the one above. When I went to the college, I thought I had a good handle on most of it. I had some hours, and had several aircraft projects. Boy! did I get an eye-opener.
 
razorseal said:
I dunno. I really don't think ercoupe is the answer to what I'm trying to do, although I'm willing to take a look.
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Honestly, IMHO as a CFI and working pilot, getting the needed ratings right now in rentals while shopping for an hour builder would be the thing to do. My son is LEO and we are looking to get him past PPL so he can apply to his departments air unit. He doesn't need to build 600 hrs in a short time but does need the CPL. A club is the way to go for us as aircraft availability is much less of a concern. Should you need an engine or even engine parts, these days there can be considerable time involved in getting the parts and getting them installed. One of my students just waited nearly 4 months for a cylinder and installation. A club setting has other planes to use while the one you like is down. Good Luck.
 
Htaylor said:
Honestly, IMHO as a CFI and working pilot, getting the needed ratings right now in rentals while shopping for an hour builder would be the thing to do. My son is LEO and we are looking to get him past PPL so he can apply to his departments air unit. He doesn't need to build 600 hrs in a short time but does need the CPL. A club is the way to go for us as aircraft availability is much less of a concern. Should you need an engine or even engine parts, these days there can be considerable time involved in getting the parts and getting them installed. One of my students just waited nearly 4 months for a cylinder and installation. A club setting has other planes to use while the one you like is down. Good Luck.
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Ouch.

so the 2 clubs I found here... 1 has a 6-8 month wait list (and their prices dry are OK, nothing spectacular. about 90$ dry for their cheapest planes) and the other I can't get a hold of. their cheapest plane is a C152 for $130 an hour
 
TCABM said:
If you have contacts in the local aviation community, you can start asking about equity or non-equity partnership opportunities.

Have you considered

Fleet — Palm Beach Flight Club

www.palmbeachflightclub.com www.palmbeachflightclub.com
Or
skyblueja.com

SkyBlue Pilot’s Club

skyblueja.com skyblueja.com
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palm beach flight club - called left vmail. emailed. no response. not very confidence inspiring.

Skyblue - their prices were very high

https://pompanobeachflyingclub.com/ - was the best one, but their planes aren't very cheap (might as well rent) and they have a 8 month wait list. Their cheapest plane is a Pipe Cheerookee at 86 dollars dry. that's pretty hefty for a 1976 imo. Doesn't include monthly fees and the sign up. I might as well just rent a 150 at 100 an hour.

I'm going ot hit up the local airports and look for the bulletin boards and see if I see anything there as well.
 
frfly172 said:
I own a 150 doesn’t go anywhere fast,so a good time building aircraft. prices are up on 150/152s. After purchase economical to operate. Prices on four seat airplanes are increasing ,fuel burn alone on four seaters are about twice the 150.
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Don't think you said how big the family is, but I was thinking that a) it sounds like you are talking about spending most of your available nonworking hours flying. Might be easier to swallow all around if on some of the trip you could bring them along. Keep the family happier too maybe... & I think someone else mentioned throttling back to get more comparable fuel burns
MarkH said:
What is your timeframe on building hours? When I purchased my plane, I underestimated the impact of maintenance on time-frames. At one point my plane was parked for 6 months waiting for parts (this was a COVID thing). You probably won't see that, but a month here and a month there adds up.

If time is the biggest concern, I would look into financing a plane to have some cash on the side for repairs and rentals if it goes out of service.

The fastest way to build time is to rent from a club with multiple similar planes so when one goes into the shop, the next is waiting.

If I am looking to build 600 hours in a year with $30k, I would use the cash first to join a club, get proficient and obtain a CFI. Then fly BFRs, insurance checkouts and the occasional student, while renting every chance I get. The $30k+income from instruction+instruction time could cover the cost of the 600 hours.

Plus, (I am told) that instruction given is seen as valuable time in environments that lean heavily on CRM, so if hiring gets tight again it may give you a leg up.

If a club is not an option, I would look into buying either an older no-electric plane like an ercoupe or Champ (the less there is the less there is to break) or a newer LSA (after 60 yrs any plane runs the risk of problems).
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My theoretical issue with clubs is convenience and availability. If you want to fly on a whim last minute because an opportunity arises, most rental or club situations are less than ideal. Exceptions out there? probably.....
TCABM said:
Why not get your commercial and CFI and get paid to fly?
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Personally I think that's what I would be working towards..... gives a purpose too, even if you don't end up using it much or at all...better to go to the airport with a purpose of working on the next rating than to go fly in circles...
razorseal said:
The company I am looking to go with, I spoke with the check airman. He said all they want is 1000TT, I mentioned about what kind of time/airframe? He said just bring on 1000TT. He is also a CFII and said he will fly with me free of charge with whatever I get and train me to get the CSEL. He told me he will train me with all the IFR stuff as well.

Hes actually the reason I a looking to do this. I was going to get CSEL and get CFI or something similar to build horus. He just wants me to get to 1000 TT and a plane he can train me in.
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regardless of the requirement, I'd want to be flying in the system a lot, to be getting more an more proficient and instrument current..... even if early on it's in VFR weather only.... so I'd be wanting something that is at least basic instrument capable and certified to fly to key west and back and forth and back and forth and back
 
I found a piper cheerookee that wasn't too expensive. 55K OBO I think. I reached out but haven't heard back.

I don't have an issue flying in circles. That's too literal perhaps. I won't go up and fly around the training area for 6-8 hours. I will go up and fly around the state doing xc flights. That builds hours, and for people who have flown xc, they know they can present their own challenges. I'm not sure why people seem to be against that building hours. What's wrong with flying into one of the hundreds of airports in Florida every day? I don't want to CFI. I don't want to teach. I want to relax and de-stress from work and go fly around the state lol.

I will look for IFR planes, but I'll see what I get. I am going to do what the person who will get me a job said to do. I would LOVE an IFR plane (I enjoyed flying IFR) but I don't knoe what I can score. IFR and autopilot will be awesome.
 
razorseal said:
I found a piper cheerookee that wasn't too expensive. 55K OBO I think. I reached out but haven't heard back.
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Are you aware of the wing spar AD? That’s something you may he interested in learning about.
 
TCABM said:
Are you aware of the wing spar AD? That’s something you may he interested in learning about.
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No, I am looking at so many planes, I will have to talk things over with AP when an inspection is done when I decide on the plane I want to put an offer on. They will have to give me some info.

I also will further research the plane I'm getting when I make the offer.
 
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