Thinking about a dual sport/adventure Motorcycle

[Bill]

That doesn't surprise me for several reasons, biggest one of them being that you've been riding as long as you have. But I still would want to stick to some more off-road biased, at least today.

I need to ride the 1150 some more with the 20/80 Mitas e09 Dakar tires, but what little on road I did with them surprised me that they were as nice as they were. And they are definitely improved off road, more control without a doubt. I also have zero doubts that if I rode them harder on-road I would really notice it.

The plan is by mid-summer to add bike #3, a small true dual sport, like a KLX300. Run good 50/50 tires on it like the MT21 or 606, and keep the GS as a mostly road bike.

 

[Ted]

The plan is by mid-summer to add bike #3, a small true dual sport, like a KLX300. Run good 50/50 tires on it like the MT21 or 606, and keep the GS as a mostly road bike.

Once I get the Morini riding (which I'm hoping I can accomplish this weekend, if not 100% completed) I'll be really interested to see how that compares to the BMW. I'm pretty comfortable with maneuvering it on tight corners now off-road, but there's also no question its weight is noticeable.

 

[Oldmanb777]

I'm thinking about maybe adding a DR650 to the stable. The Africa Twinn is way too heavy and way too much bike (for me anyway) to do a lot of the offroad stuff I try with it. I have had it in places I wish i didn't. And it just isn't fun to try and throw around in the dirt. The dRZ400 is miserable on the slab. I know there is no compromise that really works. But maybe closer.

 

[Ted]

I'm thinking about maybe adding a DR650 to the stable. The Africa Twinn is way too heavy and way too much bike (for me anyway) to do a lot of the offroad stuff I try with it. I have had it in places I wish i didn't. And it just isn't fun to try and throw around in the dirt. The dRZ400 is miserable on the slab. I know there is no compromise that really works. But maybe closer.

That's exactly where I'm trying to figure out what works best. Riding the gravel roads, the BMW is just fine. Really good even. Around my property, it's big and heavy. Picking it up when it's dropped can be... challenging. It's just heavy, there's no two ways about it. But it also does well on the roads.

Having not done trails with it yet (and also with the Morini) I think those will help understand where I want to be ultimately.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Once I get the Morini riding (which I'm hoping I can accomplish this weekend, if not 100% completed) I'll be really interested to see how that compares to the BMW. I'm pretty comfortable with maneuvering it on tight corners now off-road, but there's also no question its weight is noticeable.

You might get some time in the snow if you ride on Thursday.

 

[Ted]

You might get some time in the snow if you ride on Thursday.

I've actually thought about taking it out in the snow in a couple days just to see how it does with those big knobby tires. I'm not studding the tires right now, though.

 

[Bill]

If I really get into wanting to do longer dual sport rides at some point, the EXC-F 500 may be somthing to look at, but ooh the price.

 

[Ted]

If I really get into wanting to do longer dual sport rides at some point, the EXC-F 500 may be somthing to look at, but ooh the price.

That's the thing, you know I like to do long trips not just local. The idea of packing up and riding the Trans America Trail to go to New York one of these times I have to go is immensely appealing. I think the Morini might be an ok prospect to do it, but a big BMW seems better suited. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

@Ted if you’re patient and on the lookout there are some good deals to be had on used bmw’s. I bought my 2017 gs for under 15k out the door. It had 700 miles on the odometer and had been dealer maintained since new. Had the pro dongle with it and all the options. Still not cheap for a toy but definitely better than new prices.

 

[Ted]

@Ted if you’re patient and on the lookout there are some good deals to be had on used bmw’s. I bought my 2017 gs for under 15k out the door. It had 700 miles on the odometer and had been dealer maintained since new. Had the pro dongle with it and all the options. Still not cheap for a toy but definitely better than new prices.

I've found some pretty decent deals just casually browsing if I'm willing to travel (which I am). Of course buying a motorcycle during a snowstorm is usually a good time to get a good deal as well.

I tend to think looking for a low mile, gently used one like you did is the way to go. I would also like to try to find a later R1200GSA airhead to try out, that's sort of the missing link for me that would help me figure out what I think there.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I've found some pretty decent deals just casually browsing if I'm willing to travel (which I am). Of course buying a motorcycle during a snowstorm is usually a good time to get a good deal as well.

I tend to think looking for a low mile, gently used one like you did is the way to go. I would also like to try to find a later R1200GSA airhead to try out, that's sort of the missing link for me that would help me figure out what I think there.

To be honest I gave up trying to find the perfect bike and just bought this one. Lol. When it comes to motorcycles I’m the opposite of my time in airplanes. I’ve had bikes over the years and it’s something I enjoy doing but I’m very much in the camp of always thinking about what I’m doing on the bike. In an airplane I just strap it on and get the job done. Because of that I’m confident this bike will probably always be more capable than the rider and it does everything I need it to do very well. Hopefully you find your sweet spot too.

 

[Ted]

To be honest I gave up trying to find the perfect bike and just bought this one. Lol. When it comes to motorcycles I’m the opposite of my time in airplanes. I’ve had bikes over the years and it’s something I enjoy doing but I’m very much in the camp of always thinking about what I’m doing on the bike. In an airplane I just strap it on and get the job done. Because of that I’m confident this bike will probably always be more capable than the rider and it does everything I need it to do very well. Hopefully you find your sweet spot too.

I've owned many motorcycles over the years (not as many as @Bill ) and for me it's about the journey so much as a bike being "perfect" and "the destination." I also know that I'm a better pilot and car driver than I think I'll ever be on a motorcycle, and the bike will always be better than me (although I'm working on that).

The sweet spot? Yeah, I'm still trying to figure that out, and admittedly it's also evolved quite a bit over the years. I've enjoyed the journey at all levels.

 

[Oldmanb777]

Traveling on a motorcycle is amazing. Your just out there, enjoying the freedom. Exploring the road, wherever it leads. And with dualsports the freedom to go when the road is less than perfect pavement, or worse. Some of the most interesting places have the worst roads and trails. This camping spot took about 15 miles of gravel and goatheads.

 

[Ted]

I looked at the Morini a bit last night to diagnose the horn and the turn signals. It turns out both of those seem to be pretty simple. The horn is just broken - it's getting voltage but has infinite resistance. Simple solution, new horn.

The turn signals are similar. I had found some disconnected wires. Turns out that those wires go to a flasher relay, which is missing. Solution: new flasher relay.

Oh yeah, I still need brakes...

 

[jsstevens]

I looked at the Morini a bit last night to diagnose the horn and the turn signals. It turns out both of those seem to be pretty simple. The horn is just broken - it's getting voltage but has infinite resistance. Simple solution, new horn.

The turn signals are similar. I had found some disconnected wires. Turns out that those wires go to a flasher relay, which is missing. Solution: new flasher relay.

Oh yeah, I still need brakes...

Horn or brakes. Do you really need both?

 

[TCABM]

Horn or brakes. Do you really need both?

He wants to exceed the vehicle inspection requirements, not just meet them.

 

[Ted]

We got some fresh snow on the ground, and so I decided I wanted to take one of the knobby-tired bikes out. So, I took out the BMW:



Those knobby tires really did well. The snow will never be as grippy as normal dirt, but it was actually very controlled without too many moments of thinking I was close to dropping it. Really, a lot of fun, but I decided I'd had enough after about 10 minutes. Then the kids came out and wanted to ride their dirt bike (which I didn't end up getting a picture of). So, I decided that with it running, I'd take out the Morini:



I'd never ridden it before and it had no brakes. But I figured brakes were fairly optional for riding around the property with as much snow as their was, and given that the BMW did fine, I figured this would as well. And it sure did, a lot of fun! I can't really make any significant comments on it overall given that I only rode it about 10 minutes around my property in the snow. But, a few things I noted.

The kickstand needs a broader base. While tough, it ended up toppling over not because I dropped it, but because the kickstand dug into the ground after I walked away to help my daughter pick up her bike when she dropped it. I'd figured I'd want to do that anyway, but now I know I need to do something.

Now I also need a new clutch lever, this one got damaged when it topped

You do really notice the difference (lack of) torque with the little 500cc V-twin vs. the 1150cc twin on the BMW, specifically starting off the line when there's some resistance to the rear wheel spinning. I had one point where I stopped to talk to one of my kids, and the snow was deep enough that it stalled, and ended up taking a lot of revs to get going. Not something that's happened on the BMW.

The seating position I'll need to evaluate more. Riding around, it felt like I was leaned over too far to the handlebars, uncomfortably so, whereas with the BMW I don't have that at all.

The kick starting is a bit annoying. I'm still getting the hang of it, and maybe I need to turn the idle up a hair. I've gotten the hang of getting it started more or less. However, carburetors don't like being sideways, and so after it tipped over I couldn't get it to start again. Fortunately, it's lightweight enough that I could push it back to the shop when I decided I just didn't want to mess with kicking it anymore. I suspect it'll start up just fine next time I try, but with an electric starter I could just push the button and it would be fine, even with the carbs, just might require a little massaging of the throttle and cranking a little longer while it was cranking.

I'm really looking forward to riding this thing. I can tell for sure that it'll be a completely different experience from the BMW.

 

[TCABM]

…
The kickstand needs a broader base. ….

Not uncommon and easy fix with a bolton foot for the kickstand.

…
…The seating position I'll need to evaluate more. Riding around, it felt like I was leaned over too far to the handlebars….

Bar risers and depending on the bend, adjusting forward/back is where I’d start with that one. The bike ergos are european…shorter torsos and arms…may need an overall larger sized set of bars. Be careful going too much wider though as that can really impact steering response. Even with a short riser you may need longer cables though.

If you ever get around to brakes, you’ll probably want stainless hoses instead of rubber since I’m guessing more pressure is going to be needed to push the bigger calipers you’ve got.

 

[Ted]

Not uncommon and easy fix with a bolton foot for the kickstand.

I could do that or I could just weld on a piece of metal to make it bigger. I haven't decided what I want to do yet.

Bar risers and depending on the bend, adjusting forward/back is where I’d start with that one. The bike ergos are european…shorter torsos and arms…may need an overall larger sized set of bars. Be careful going too much wider though as that can really impact steering response. Even with a short riser you may need longer cables though.

I need to ride it a bit more to see what I think once I actually get out. In the snow my riding position wasn't necessarily ideal for a lot of reasons, so it wasn't a good evaluation. But it may need some risers for me if I decide to keep it.

If you ever get around to brakes, you’ll probably want stainless hoses instead of rubber since I’m guessing more pressure is going to be needed to push the bigger calipers you’ve got.

I've got some stainless hoses on the way, hopefully make some progress on brakes this weekend.

 

[Ted]

I've had a few emails back and forth with one Morini guru who's got a similar practical approach to me. He said that he has converted some of these bikes to a full 12V electrical system with 12V battery and a more modern coil ignition system and it has done a great deal to improve starting. I think this is probably the direction I'm going to want to go.

I need to do some looking into what's out there that I could work with. Since this is an odd-fire engine (being a 72-degree V-twin), the real goal would be to use the magnetic pickups that are currently on the bike to fire the ignition coils.

I've not had to consider making/hacking together my own ignition system before, so this will require some more research to figure out what makes sense to be able to make this work. The fact that it already has two magnetic pickups makes me think I should be able to set this up in a relatively simple/straightforward manner, I just have to figure out what that manner is. Right now, each output of the magnetic pickup goes to its respective coil to fire it. In one diagram I found, they showed a schematic for making your own transducer. Simple enough, although one of the points they make in those is not to connect the coils directly to 6V/12V batteries for fear of blowing up/melting the coils. I know that on some older cars it was common to see coils with ballast resistors that were bypassed during starting, but not bypassed during normal operation. I don't think that most modern setups use that, although I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand enough about ignition system design as to understand why/where that would be required.

I suppose one thing to consider is the primary reason to upgrade to 12V would be if that somehow made it easier to upgrade the ignition. If there was a way to utilize the ignition pickups with the stock main 6V system, then maybe I wouldn't have a reason/motivation to change anything with that.

 

[FormerHangie]

One benefit of the kids now having a TTR50 is that it helps to create an excuse for me to ride around the property some, since I can just follow them around. Honestly, it's great practice. My one daughter who's never ridden a dirt bike before Saturday is making turns that are challenging for me to make on the big BMW. Of course they have advantages with a bike that's less than half the size and about 1/6 the weight, but it's good practice for me.

Yesterday I did a lot of shop cleaning and saw I had some oil that was appropriate for the transmission and final drive on the BMW, so I decided to change both of those. They were... a bit overdue.

View attachment 104198

View attachment 104199

I've seen worse, but they were definitely in need of changing. I'll probably ride the thing on the road some today and see if I notice a difference.

While at the dealer to pick up the TTR50 for the kids, they also had new Ducati Multistradas. I sat on one and found that it wasn't much worse balanced than a big R-GS BMW, but it was still worse balanced and didn't really speak to me sitting on it as "This is what I want." Really, it struck me as something I wouldn't want to take off of pavement for fear of dropping it and damaging plastics. To some extent that's what you get with any of these new bikes. I also sat on a KTM 1190 Adventure, and it didn't speak to me much either, and I didn't inherently like the balance on it.

I rode the big Harley this weekend on a highway ride when I had to go to town for something. While I still like the bike, I find myself feeling more and more like it's the wrong bike for the mission. Yes, it's a good highway cruiser, and even handles pretty well for what it is. The weight is getting annoying for me (even though I haven't gotten any physically weaker, it's just tiring), and the only reason I end up riding it is because I want cruise control or need the storage.

Once I get the Morini riding I'll see what I think of it and that may help to bound my decisions. I don't want a new R1250GS/GSA. Or rather, if they didn't cost $25-30k out the door, I might. But with the newer ones the weight has gone up and the systems have increased. I'm thinking that one of the later airhead R1200GSAs (before they went water cooled) with low miles might be the right compromise on price, and essentially have that replace the Harley and also return the BMW to my friend. But for now, especially after putting tires on the BMW and not having started riding the Morini, I'm going to keep on seeing what I think.

My wife said over the weekend that she felt badly we got her new car since otherwise I could've bought that Ducati (did I marry right or what?). I responded "Honestly I don't know what I want still. And this probably isn't it."

I'm impressed you got all that done this weekend. I spent most of mine watching the Rolex 24 at Daytona. If you didn't see it, here's the last few laps:

 

[Ted]

I'm impressed you got all that done this weekend. I spend most of mine watching the Rolex 24 at Daytona. If you didn't see it, here's the last few laps:

One of the things I need to do is put a TV with a Roku in the shop so that I can stream races while I'm working. The RV has both of those, and the RV is in the shop, but I can't actually see the RV while it's going. For how cheap TVs are (and I may even have one sitting around I could use), it would be a nice addition.

 

[Ted]

I did a little bit more reading around at the various coils, and I think on the whole a traditional coil conversion on the Morini shouldn't be too difficult. It's just a question of which coils likely make the most sense to do.

The most standard way to go would be with some sort of conventional coil that will fire when the ground to it is broken, and have that triggered by the magnetic pickup. I'm sure there's something available from the motorcycle world that I could use. If I can stick to that 2-wire setup and trigger it off the magnetic pickup, I tend to think that would be the best option.

If I go automotive, I tend to like the GM LS2 coils, simply because they produce a very hot spark and are compact/readily available/cheap. The negative that goes with those is that their triggering is a bit more complicated. They use a +5V signal to charge, and then fire when that signal is dropped. So this would mean that I'd need to have some sort of +5V reference voltage as well to fire the coils, and have that interrupted. It's not a huge item and it's probably relatively minor complexity, but it is some. I suppose really all I'd need to do would be add a tiny 12V to 5V converter to have that small power supply (it takes milliamps, so extremely low power consumption) and then I could otherwise have the ignition transducer work the same, to interrupt that 5V signal when the magnetic pickups trigger.

With that said, today I was able to get the thing to start several times in the shop, quite reliably with relatively few kicks. Of course that was with it upright and conditions about perfect.

 

[Ted]

Spent a bit more time looking at options for upgrading the Morini ignition. I think the easiest one might be to just get a pair of GM HEI ignition coils, have each one driven by one of the magnetic pickups (since it has one pickup per cylinder) and then attach those each to their own individual coils. This will require a 12V conversion, which is also straightforward and would be the pre-requisite. It ends up being a dumb system, but I don't have reason to believe there's inherently a problem with the factory ignition curve, just that I want a stronger spark, specifically at start. If I get that then I also should be able to increase the spark plug gap from the stock 0.7mm (so around 0.027") to something like 0.045", which would also help quite a bit.

I'll investigate more and the first order of business would be doing a 12V conversion to support this, but I think it would be simple and straightforward to do.

 

[PilotRPI]

Just picked up a Beta 390 after riding a DRZ for a year. Can't wait to beat on it in the dirt.

 

[Ted]

Just picked up a Beta 390 after riding a DRZ for a year. Can't wait to beat on it in the dirt.

View attachment 104346

Make sure to report what you think! I was considering a Beta.

 

[Ted]

Judging from the dirt, mud, and snow, I think we were using these things correctly.

 

[Morgan3820]

So my wife is looking for a cruiser style weighing around the low 400’s lbs. The honda rebel 500 would work except it is not anywhere near as pretty as her Triumph T100. Any suggestions?

 

[Ted]

So my wife is looking for a cruiser style weighing around the low 400’s lbs. The honda rebel 500 would work except it is not anywhere near as pretty as her Triumph T100. Any suggestions?

I liked my Moto Guzzi V7 quite a bit. I think it would be around 50 lbs lighter than the Triumph, and also looks cool. It's got a low center of gravity with the pushrod V-twin, and while the cylinders stick out on either side, the 750cc engine is small enough physically that it didn't get in the way of even my legs as at 6' or so.

 

[szwinger]

So my wife is looking for a cruiser style weighing around the low 400’s lbs. The honda rebel 500 would work except it is not anywhere near as pretty as her Triumph T100. Any suggestions?

Not quite cruiser style but an older monster 750 is a nice light bike with a low seat height. Not that you stipulated a low seat height but I equate that with a cruiser.

 

[sourdough44]

Some of you must bundle up like you’re on a snowmobile in those temps. I have done some cool weather riding, like to get above 50 though.

Right now a Honda CB-1100, just about all paved roads.

 

[Ted]

Some of you must bundle up like you’re on a snowmobile in those temps. I have done some cool weather riding, like to get above 50 though.

Right now a Honda CB-1100, just about all paved roads.

A lot of it depends on what speed you're going and how active of a ride it is. Doing some off-roading around my property you're really never getting above 10-15 MPH and you're being a lot more physically active, doing a lot of bar movements, general body movements for balance of the bike, etc., you're actually pretty active. For that, I can ride well below freezing pretty comfortably, and when I was in college I'd ride to school in the winter on my first motorcycle, which was a KZ700 (naked bike, no fairing). The only part that got chilly was the brief 55 MPH section. The local <35 MPH roads were fine.

Now if I'm riding to the airport to catch a flight, which is about an hour on the interstate? Yeah, even with the heated grips and heated seat it'll get a bit chilly much below 40. But I've done motorcycle road trips in the winter.

 

[Ted]

Yesterday I managed to make some good progress on the Morini. I fabricated the bracket to adapt the Ninja caliper to the front wheel, and then also ran the line and did an initial bleed on it. I need to bleed it better (couldn't find part of my one-person bleeder and was by myself) but it's enough that it works. Then I made the new clutch cable (which I cut just a bit too short and will need to make again... but I was able to make work for yesterday). I also welded up the bracket to the rear brake lever that will allow it to actuate the Ninja rear master cylinder.

And lastly, I welded on a larger foot for the kickstand.

Fabrication always goes slowly when you're trying to get all of the dimensions just so, but I'm happy with the results. The caliper lines up perfectly, and it moves evenly with no binding, and the thing does stop with the brake handle. I couldn't do the rear brakes because 1) the master cylinder I'd bought was seized up (so I need to order another one there) 2) I needed some different metal than what I had to make the adapter bracket for the rear caliper. So that'll be another day.

After getting it all together, I took it out for a quick ride around the property and then around the block. I didn't spend much time riding it but I wanted to get a more complete functional check.

The bike does have a 6-speed transmission, and all 6 gears work with it shifting well both up and down. It feels like the clutch doesn't fully disengage (this is mostly evidenced by the fact that at a stop you can't shift it from 1st into neutral) but I imagine that as I ride it more and it gets some fresh oil in, that should likely improve. There may be some other items, but the clutch does not seem to be slipping.

The gearing on it is very short, which as I read was intentional for off-road. That's a good thing. Once you get the bike moving (it doesn't have much rotational mass unlike the BMW, so you do need to be more careful with the throttle and clutch from a stop) it has what seem to be very appropriate gear ratios for off-road biased riding. In 6th gear if the speedometer and tachometer were right (which is a big "if" in both cases), it did around 55 MPH @ 4000 RPM. That doesn't feel stressed on this engine or the bike in general, really seems appropriate for what the thing is.

I've been riding the BMW a bunch, and so of course that's what I'm used to for an off-road bike. I think this is ultimately a good bit better, but it is different. One noticeable difference is the handlebars are shorter, so of course that means the thing turns quicker. I need to see how I think I like that in the end.

I also confirmed and was able to evaluate the overall engine running. As I'd mentioned before there was a work order from the previous (now deceased) owner saying that the thing would miss above 4,000 RPMs. What I really found was that it felt like it wasn't so much RPM based (although 4,000 is where it more or less becomes the most evident) but is really more load based. I'm pretty sure the issue is the ignition system, it feels like the coils are weak or otherwise breaking down and not able to produce the voltage required to jump the spark plug gap. I've had this happen on several cars before and the behavior is almost identical.

It runs smoothly and works fine at lower power settings, but ultimately I do think the 12V conversion and electronic ignition is in the future. Not immediately, but those are smaller projects I can work on as I have free time here and there. Really, now the bike is rideable, and I want to ride it more around the property and see how I like it while also looking at what I can do for minor upgrades here and there. I'll get a 12V voltage regulator coming that I can use as part of doing the 12V conversion, found some 12V turn signals (LED - will help improve visibility/safety), and will need to find some 12V bulbs (probably LED equivalents) for the instrument cluster. Minor items that improve the functionality and are reversible if desired in the future.

The ignition system, that requires some more thinking on. I keep on coming back to wanting to use LS coils because they're so prolific.. Also since the switching is done by a low-current 5V source and they self-limit the dwell (you can make the dwell shorter, but in this case just letting it stick to the max 8ms dwell is fine). The catch is then designing/getting a circuit that will fire the coils based off of the magnetic pickups for each cylinder. I'm not an EE so I'll likely need to get some help on that one if I decide to go that route, as I haven't found any products that do this job.

The other idea that I don't like as much but would work is using Ford COPs with conventional spark plugs attached. The Ford COPs are 2-wire and fire more like a normal ignition coil, as in break the ground wire to interrupt current flow and cause the coil to fire. Pairing that with GM HEI ignition modules should theoretically work. MSD makes some modules that advertise multiple sparks for 20 degrees of rotation, but that would be 20 degrees with 8 cylinders, not with 1 cylinder (which is what this would be). I don't think that would cause a problem necessarily but since good HEI modules tend to have some logic around RPM built-in from what I can find, that seems like it would be easier to hook up but may produce additional issues as I'm trying to get it work.

Probably the real easiest would be to see if I could find some new ignition modules from Ducatis (that's whose parts bin was raided for most of the electrical on this) that would otherwise bolt up but just use 12V. That would probably be the simplest way to go, but if I'm going to buy new components and do this, I'd like to be able to increase ignition energy and expand the spark plug gap. In the past I've found that's one of the best things you can do for engine running and responsiveness.

It's possible this running issue is carb related, but I doubt it. After having gone through the carbs fully, they should be clean, I'm not seeing any debris in the filters that would indicate fuel flow should be restricted, and even still it wouldn't be such an on-off type of switch that goes with throttle if it was - the float bowls would empty at a particular rate and then there would be a difference. These carbs just have a metering rod and orifice so they're really quite simple, and the thing runs well otherwise.

I'll need to ride it more than around the block to truly get much of a feel for it. But it's immediately noticeable vs. the BMW how much more compliant the suspension is, clearly tuned more for the bumps of off-road. Then again the BMW is so old the suspension is probably also largely blown out, but the Morini flows over the imperfections more. I'm not putting much trust in the speedometer at this point (should verify with a GPS) but I was immediately comfortable riding the bike on gravel at similar speeds to the BMW, although the narrower front wheel did seem a bit less stable, which I suppose is expected.

Really nice to ride this thing, and I'm looking forward to making continual improvements and riding it around some more.

 

[Oldmanb777]

Some of you must bundle up like you’re on a snowmobile in those temps. I have done some cool weather riding, like to get above 50 though.

Right now a Honda CB-1100, just about all paved roads.

It's all about layers and keeping the wind off you. I'm pretty good to 40F. But tires get stiff and not too grippy when cold, and ice can be on the road in shady areas at that temp. I have heated gear and grips, but usually don;t use the heated gear unless its a longer ride. My frog togs work really well in a pinch to keep the wind off. In the dirt, 40F can be a bit warm when your working hard.

 

[Oldmanb777]

When it gets too cold you can switch to tracks and skis. But really a snowmobile suit works well, but most don't have armor.

 

[sourdough44]

Just got back from a U.P. of MI snowmobile outing, temps in the cool side, zero or so.

I like the tucked away trail stops, hit a new one this trip, the ‘Rousseau Bar’ near Mass City, MI. It’s a few miles off the Hwy, have to seek it out, been there a long time.

We also stopped at the Cozy Inn near Nestoria, another favorite. A new guy from IL came along, I think he had a good time.

 

[Oldmanb777]

That sounds like a great time. I'm a total newbie with the sleds. But its great. I want to try out one of the sled bikes. We could use a few more feet of snow. I rode my dirt bike over to pick up a rental sled the other day. We are still laughing about that. Stainless ice studs work great in the icy spots, not too good on the dry paved spots.

 

[Ted]

I've been doing some more looking around at motorcycles, and the KTM Adventure bikes really have my interest. It seems like the 1290 Adventure R hits a lot of what I'm looking for equal or better to the R1250GS/GSA, and the 890 Adventure R seems like it's a legitimately good bike (while the F850GS is more of a "You buy it because you can't afford an R1250GS" bike), and might be well suited for my wife.

We wouldn't be buying them anytime soon and I do like some of the tech and improvements they have in the newer ones, but we may head over to a dealer at some point and see what we think of them in person just to get some ideas.

 

[Oldmanb777]

KTM's are great, but like other performance oriented machines you need to keep ahead of the maint or they will bite you. Not a bike you put away wet and it lives to play another day.
The 1290 as in most other big heavy weight ADVenture bikes, you need to know what your doing, or it can bite you real fast. Like putting a 50 hr pilot in a C-421 and expecting to make it perform as it was intended.

 

[Bill]

KTM's are great, but like other performance oriented machines you need to keep ahead of the maint or they will bite you. Not a bike you put away wet and it lives to play another day.

That's why I'll be looking for a KLX300 or CRF300L later this summer. Cheapish and indestructible compared to the KTM, with low MX requirements. It will match my low offroad skills lol.