Thinking about a dual sport/adventure Motorcycle

[Bill]

My brother and I are planning the same this year. If you pass two idiots in a ditch stop and say hello.

when y’all going?

 

[Brad Smith]

While Jocelin has conquered riding a GS1250 despite her height disadvantage, you must remember that she has above average skill when it comes to motorcycling. The average 5’2” rider would soon find their 550# BMW resting firmly on their leg if they try to emulate her technique for riding a bike that is obviously too tall for them. Life would be much more enjoyable (not to mention less painful) if they were to find a bike that allows them to reach the ground with both feet.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

when y’all going?

Not sure just yet. As the plans become more firm I’ll let you know.

In the interim I’ve been doing some day rides up to the south mountains and points west. Big all day loops from home. Have been dropping in some gravel/dirt roads as my comfort level increases. Still driving rather carefully off the paved roads. Let me know if you’re interested in going out for a day trip. Just be warned I ain’t the fastest rider around.

 

[Bill]

Will do!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Perfectly safe until she has to unexpectedly stop and can't quickly get herself the right way, those big heavy bikes hurt when they fall on you. Perhaps I'm an arrogant SOB, but I'm not a professional rider, no one has ever taken a youtube video of me on a bike. I'm never riding something from which I can't quickly and easily get my feet to the ground to balance it. What's safe on a dirt track and safe on a city street are different things. When that girl has ridden the streets as long as I have on bikes she can't even tiptoe we'll see who's the better rider. By the way, my own personal definition of the better rider is the one who rides the most with the fewest accidents, not the one who can do the most tricks.

You are right about one thing in your response and not completely wrong about a few things but talking to you reminds me to be humble. So I appreciate that about you.

As a mentor once told me: Every captain will teach you something. Sometimes it’s what not to do.

sage advice for life in general.

Stay safe out there dude.

 

[steingar]

You are right about one thing in your response and not completely wrong about a few things but talking to you reminds me to be humble. So I appreciate that about you.

As a mentor once told me: Every captain will teach you something. Sometimes it’s what not to do.

sage advice for life in general.

Stay safe out there dude.

I try hard to be safe. I always wear gear, and I usually use my Steingar radar to make certain no one hits me. I only crashed once on my Goldwing, though I was slightly hurt (documented it on this website no less, hobbled around for a day). I will never ride a bike that is too tall for me, I think it's dangerous. Perhaps not on some stunt trail where you show off, but on the street it could be awful. I often have to stop hard when someone tries to kill me, which happens at an alarmingly frequency. If the bike is too tall and you have to stop unexpectedly you can't necessarily get over the bike to get your feet to the ground on time, and like I said, those things can hurt when they fall on you. And I know one other thing. It's the rider, not the bike. I've ridden every surface there is except lunar on a street bike with street tires, I'll never be afraid to. Not going to take a street bike on hard trails, but if there's dirt in my way I'll just ride it. I've done it lots of times before and I'll do it again. Won't go out of my way for it, but if it's in the way it gets ridden. Way of the Steingar. I don't do wheelies, I don't stunt, and I don't do tricks. Don't really feel the need to. But I intend to ride the World.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I’m speechless. Lol

 

[Ted]

I’m speechless. Lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[FastEddieB]

Fun watch:

Oh, to be young and flexible (and female?) again!

 

[Ted]

I installed some brighter multi-function turn signals (both front and rear) on my GSA. I'm enjoying them, although I don't like how the front lenses are designed. You can see the light they emit while riding, which is a distraction:

 

[SoonerAviator]

Wonder if it would be worth your time to tape off and paint/tint the top of the front lights so that the light is blocked or less intense in your line of sight.

 

[Ted]

Wonder if it would be worth your time to tape off and paint/tint the top of the front lights so that the light is blocked or less intense in your line of sight.

I’ve had that thought. I may. I don’t ride at night much which is when it would be the worst.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I’ve had that thought. I may. I don’t ride at night much which is when it would be the worst.

You could either buy a small bit of window tint and cut it to size to apply on the top and see if that helps. 5% should be pretty good to block most of the light but still leave a little bit to pass through. It would be a cheap experiment and should hold up pretty well. There's a product called Nite-Shades from VHT available at most auto parts stores if you want to try spray painting it. Tons of guys use the Nite-Shades to tint taillights on vehicles, as each successive coat gets darker and darker. (I'm sure it's just thinned out black paint/clear coat). Comes off pretty easily as well if you decide you didn't like the look.

 

[Morgan3820]

My wife just purchased her third motorcycle. While I’m still on my first one. A new Honda Rebel 1100 DCT. If anybody is interested in a very nice very clean Triumph T100, drop me a PM .

 

[SkyChaser]

My wife just purchased her third motorcycle. While I’m still on my first one. A new Honda Rebel 1100 DCT. If anybody is interested in a very nice very clean Triumph T100, drop me a PM .

She knows her motorcycle doesn't need to match her outfit, right?

 

[Ted]

As I announced a few pages back, I'm planning to try out for the GS Trophy US team this year (qualifiers later this year, actual event is next year). I've been working in the direction of this goal over the past... roughly 2 years (see page 1 of this thread). I'm trying to set myself up for success as much as I can with this and have been working at it from multiple angles relating to riding, physical fitness, and strategy. That said, I'm also realistic about the fact that there are plenty of motorcyclists out there who are better than me. How many of those will show up at the qualifier is a question.

BMW is offering a weekend prep course at the Performance Center in South Carolina (where my wife and I took a weekend course last year) using their bikes, and so I've signed up for that. It will be a few weeks before the actual tryouts, and so hopefully that will help me figure out what I need to work on in the weeks before I actually make the trek down with my motorcycle to compete and hopefully get selected.

Multiple things are coming into play which may help or hurt my odds. BMW is only holding one tryout this year (in South Carolina) whereas previously they tended to have two tryouts to make it easier for people in the west to participate. This will eliminate some people who aren't willing to make the journey. But, they are also reducing the team size from 6 men to 3 (women have a separate team).

Admittedly, the thought of this sort of competition makes me a bit nervous. I was always picked last in gym class as a kid, something that for some reason sticks with me here - I think likely because motorcycling is so much of a physical activity as much as it is a vehicular control activity. I know that I know how to drive, and in a similar group of amateurs where we all were competing with equivalent vehicles, I'd have good confidence about my abilities going in. When it comes to motorcycles while I know I know how to ride, it's not quite the same.

But, although the qualifier isn't a race, like a race a lot of things can happen and there's more to it than being the best rider. So, I'm going to keep on practicing, set myself up for success, and we'll see what happens come the qualifiers in October.

Regardless of what happens, I have no doubt I'll come away from the experience a better rider, which is never a bad thing.

 

[TCABM]

As I announced a few pages back, I'm planning to try out for the GS Trophy US team this year …
Regardless of what happens, I have no doubt I'll come away from the experience a better rider, which is never a bad thing.

You’ll also have a great story to tell.

 

[Ted]

I came to New York for the weekend to take care of some family business. While here, I generally try to go riding with my friend who has an R1200GSA and G310GS. He and I are both planning to try out for the GS Trophy later this year, and so yesterday we rode down to Pine Barrens in New Jersey to ride some of the trails down there.

While none of it was single track, it was all back roads in varying conditions. That part of New Jersey is naturally very sandy, and so there was a great deal of sand in varying depths and conditions, ranging from very soft and flowing to wet and firmer. Sand is interesting compared to dirt in its properties, and reading the terrain with sand is a bit different. I have hardly any sand riding experience, and last time my friend went down and rode these trails he'd not enjoyed it much, so we thought it presented a good challenge. We rode around 50 miles of off-road yesterday over roughly 5 hours including some breaks, but no breaks were very long. It was essentially 5 hours of adventure riding.

I started off on the GSA and rode that for most of our ride, while he stayed on the G310GS. About 3/4 of the way through we swapped bikes. The GSA has Motoz Tractionator Rallz tires, and the 310 has Mitas E09 Dakar tires. I had the latter on the R1150GS previously, and now have the former on it. Both are very good for this sort of riding.

A ride like this is definitely something you don't want to do by yourself unless you have a very lightweight bike, just because of the potential of picking the thing up. To my (huge) surprise, I didn't drop the big GSA once. There was a great deal of deep, loose sand, and no matter how you look at it, wrangling a 600 lb bike is a lot of work through those conditions. We also had a number of large puddles to contend with, which of course have their own concerns when you don't know how deep they go or what could be in the water. For some there were easy go-arounds, for others it came down to stopping, getting off, and dragging a stick through the water to see what there was. The videos of these crossings look very uneventful, because when done properly, that's what they should be.

Going into yesterday I wasn't sure how the G310 would do. That bike has always impressed me overall, but it's easy to forget just how capable a small bike can be, and how much the various rider aids can help but aren't really necessary if you're riding the way you should. Upon switching to the small BMW, I was immediately shocked with how much easier it was to ride through the sand. 200 lbs less weight helps, and because of its smaller size I was able to put my weight further aft relative to the bike (and of course my weight is a higher percentage of the bike's weight) making riding in sand easier. The GSA was a tremendous workout in those conditions. The little 310 was actually quite easy by comparison.

For me at a bit over 6' tall, the GSA is still a better overall adventure bike for me, and it's obviously a better bike overall. But the 310's capabilities impressed me, including the ease with which it handled some challenging conditions. Most people ride these roads on little 500cc or less dirt bikes with much lower weight. But to me, this is what adventure riding is about - the ability to ride your bike to where you want to go ride, ride the trails, and go back.

I need to spend some more time on sand, but am definitely feeling more comfortable after yesterday both with that terrain challenge, and with my overall abilities at riding off road in challenging conditions. I just need to keep at it.

 

[Ted]

Go big or go home.

New tires for the R1250GSA - Motoz Tractionator Rallz, same as what I have on the 1150GS.

I'm still not 100% on doing the qualifier with the GSA, but that's where I'm leaning.

 

[Bill]

Good offroad tires

 

[Ted]

Good offroad tires

They do surprisingly well on-road too, at least in my opinion.

 

[Bill]

Ive heard they handle pretty well on pavement, but the knobs melt away quickly.

 

[Ted]

Ive heard they handle pretty well on pavement, but the knobs melt away quickly.

That’s not what I’ve seen with Motoz. My friend had Motoz Tractionator Adventures on his GSA to 8k miles and only changed them because of cracks. The new Rallz have 3k miles and still look new.

 

[Ted]

I really never liked the Metzler Karoo3s that my GSA came with. They didn't wear very well, this is what the rear tire did with only 2300 miles on it:



Note: motorcycle tires shouldn't do that. That's what a car tire should do.

So, I put on a new Motoz Tractionator Rallz:



I bought a motorcycle tire bead breaker from Amazon which is not great (as you'd expect for a cheap Chinese Amazon product), but once I got the hang of it it does pretty ok. For the number of motorcycle tires I seem to change, I figured it was worth the $65.

Next to see how the big GSA does with better tires. These are the same tires my friend has on his R1200GSA, so I suspect I know the answer - they'll be very good.

 

[Ted]

A friend stopped by with his Triumph Tiger 1200 Rally Pro on his way back from an off road school. We couldn't go riding on the roads because I'm solo with the kids, but we rode around the property some and he let me take his bike around the block as well. The Tiger 1200 Rally Pro is Triumph's answer to the R1200GS (not GSA), but with a 21/18 tire combination. The Rally Explorer is Triumph's answer to the GSA with the larger tank and more features. Tires on his bike were Dunlop Trailmax Missions, which are considered a good 50/50 but the rear had a good sum of wear on it already.

I've read good things about the Tiger 1200, and the fact that it offers a 21/18 wheel combination compared to the 19/17 that BMWs are stuck with (you can get a 21" front but not an 18" rear). The negatives I was expecting were a higher center of gravity due to the DOHC I3 vs. flat twin boxer and overall worse balance. To my surprise, I didn't find the big Triumph to be noticeably higher in CG or worse in balance. The tank was fairly empty, but in spite of that I hopped on it and immediately was doing trial stops, "slow race", and had no issues. In tighter turns with some lean angle it would probably become more noticeable, but I was surprised how well it behaved.

I also took it around the block on some of the gravel roads right by my house, and the extra sure-footedness of the 21/18 wheel combination was immediately obvious. I've said before I wish BMW offered that as I would've gone for it (it's a fairly common gripe - but not common enough that BMW has done anything, I guess).

I'm not sure if it's a GS killer, but if I'd ridden that before buying the GSA, I would've had some more thinking to do. Unlike the Multistrada, which was an easy and obvious "Nope".

The kids were a fan, too, and decided to park next to it.

 

[SoonerAviator]

@Ted @Bill Either of you ever spend much time on a Yamaha FJR1300? Dad's been riding his Stratoliner quite a bit and asked if I might want to get a bike. I don't much care for 800+lbs cruisers/baggers, although his Stratoliner is nice and runs well/low maintenance. I'm too old for a Supersport, not to mention it'd be miserable to ride anywhere but in the twisties. I'm probably looking at a 2016 model if I go with the FJR, just because they added a few small things, but most notably a 6th gear to the gearset. Since this will be some light highway riding (rural highways, not interstates) and back roads I doubt that the dual sport is the best option since I won't be doing any dirt or loose soil. The BMW K1600 models are nice, but probably more than I want to spend at this point.

 

[Ted]

I have several thousand miles on an older (2004ish?) FJR and really liked it. My biggest complaint was the engine was a sewing machine and there was no cruise control. K1600s depreciate quickly, I have no idea what an FJR in that year range would go for but low 5 figures would get you a K1600 which is a much higher end and more refined machine in my opinion.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I have several thousand miles on an older (2004ish?) FJR and really liked it. My biggest complaint was the engine was a sewing machine and there was no cruise control. K1600s depreciate quickly, I have no idea what an FJR in that year range would go for but low 5 figures would get you a K1600 which is a much higher end and more refined machine in my opinion.

The FJR and K1600 both have CC and ABS standard by 2013 I believe, and are typically optioned with the factory heated grips and such. Most of the rider reviews/moto magazines put the K1600 above the FJR in total package, but often commented that if it was their money they'd go with the FJR as the Bimmer was often at a $5K+ price premium and they didn't feel like there was that much extra refinement for the dollar spent. I think they are on pretty even ground with the newest models, but I'm trying to keep it around $10K or less if I go this direction. Obviously those reviews are talking about new pricing, so as you mentioned the depreciation may be steep enough to put them closer to even footing in the used market, but those K1600 seem to still command a price premium for the few I've seen listed. The Kawasaki Concourse 14 and Honda F6B are often in the same comparisons with the FJR/K1600 but always seem to come in behind those two.

How did you recall the weight/balance to be? I believe the FJR is about 650lbs but I've heard they don't feel too top-heavy.

 

[Bill]

Some early FJRs had issues with the ABS pump, other than that they’re solid. A little heavy and not my style, but good bikes.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Wonder if it would be worth your time to tape off and paint/tint the top of the front lights so that the light is blocked or less intense in your line of sight.

Just a thought, depending how the housing and reflector is designed, the top of the lens may not be the problem area.

The upwards facing reflective elements may be coming from elsewhere. Particularly if the front of the bulb is shielded to reduce glare and the reflector is doing the illuminating.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Some early FJRs had issues with the ABS pump, other than that they’re solid. A little heavy and not my style, but good bikes.

I wouldn't mind grabbing a VStrom or more of an adventure bike, but I have a feeling that the wife will want to ride 2-up on occasion and the Sport Tourer class seems like a better fit. I don't like heavy (800+lbs) cruisers much when riding solo as it just feels cumbersome. I don't have a lot of time on street bikes anyway, so I don't have a ton of experience to pull from in that arena.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Just a thought, depending how the housing and reflector is designed, the top of the lens may not be the problem area.

The upwards facing reflective elements may be coming from elsewhere. Particularly if the front of the bulb is shielded to reduce glare and the reflector is doing the illuminating.

Not positive, but I think @Ted problem was related more to light leakage at the top of the light housings which was more intense than he wanted in his lower field of vision while riding. Taping it off/tinting at the top of the bezel where the light was leaking was just to limit or eliminate the light leakage. I agree that putting light across the front of the reflector housing could vary in effect based off of reflector design (assuming it's a reflector not a projector).

 

[jesse]

I wouldn't mind grabbing a VStrom or more of an adventure bike, but I have a feeling that the wife will want to ride 2-up on occasion and the Sport Tourer class seems like a better fit. I don't like heavy (800+lbs) cruisers much when riding solo as it just feels cumbersome. I don't have a lot of time on street bikes anyway, so I don't have a ton of experience to pull from in that arena.

Honestly two up really sucks for a passenger on anything short of a Goldwing or fully decked out large cruiser. You're not going to find a lot of people that are going to want to sit on the back of a FJR, Concours, or any such machine all day. I sure wouldn't want to. They're barely comfortable enough for the driver and worse yet for the passenger.

I've never ran a FJR, but did buy a Concours 14 new in 2011. The longest "non-stop" day I did on it was over 1200 miles. It was not a comfortable experience and was without a passenger. A young 20 something female would tolerate a maximum of about a hour on it. Results would be worse with an older model (machine or female).

 

[SoonerAviator]

Honestly two up really sucks for a passenger on anything short of a Goldwing or fully decked out large cruiser. You're not going to find a lot of people that are going to want to sit on the back of a FJR, Concours, or any such machine all day. I sure wouldn't want to. They're barely comfortable enough for the driver and worse yet for the passenger.

I've never ran a FJR, but did buy a Concours 14 new in 2011. The longest "non-stop" day I did on it was over 1200 miles. It was not a comfortable experience and was without a passenger. A young 20 something female would tolerate a maximum of about a hour on it. Results would be worse with an older model (machine or female).

That was one of the major complaints with most Concours reviews is that its positioning is too much like a supersport and not enough "tourer". I doubt that any of our runs would be more than 2 hours out/2 hours back, (probably closer to 90-minutes each way) so the amount of time in the saddle for the passenger isn't crazy. If I were doing several hour highway runs, or cross country riding I'd think it'd be impossible to beat a Goldwing. I would need to at least do a fit-test to make sure we could both fit on comfortably with basic riding gear. I'm 6' 225lbs, she's 5'9" and under 150lbs, so I'd guess "standard Americans" lol. I'm sure the 2-up riding would be the exception more than the rule for the time being.

 

[Ted]

The FJR and K1600 both have CC and ABS standard by 2013 I believe, and are typically optioned with the factory heated grips and such. Most of the rider reviews/moto magazines put the K1600 above the FJR in total package, but often commented that if it was their money they'd go with the FJR as the Bimmer was often at a $5K+ price premium and they didn't feel like there was that much extra refinement for the dollar spent. I think they are on pretty even ground with the newest models, but I'm trying to keep it around $10K or less if I go this direction. Obviously those reviews are talking about new pricing, so as you mentioned the depreciation may be steep enough to put them closer to even footing in the used market, but those K1600 seem to still command a price premium for the few I've seen listed. The Kawasaki Concourse 14 and Honda F6B are often in the same comparisons with the FJR/K1600 but always seem to come in behind those two.

How did you recall the weight/balance to be? I believe the FJR is about 650lbs but I've heard they don't feel too top-heavy.

It’s been over a decade and I don’t know how the new ones compete to the older ones. But while heavy, I found it to be well balanced, handled well on windy roads, and good two up. I rode it both with my wife (when she was my girlfriend) and another pretty lady before dating her. Both liked being passengers on it just fine and it was good riding two up.

 

[SoonerAviator]

It’s been over a decade and I don’t know how the new ones compete to the older ones. But while heavy, I found it to be well balanced, handled well on windy roads, and good two up. I rode it both with my wife (when she was my girlfriend) and another pretty lady before dating her. Both liked being passengers on it just fine and it was good riding two up.

It seems like the FJR and Bimmer both compete pretty well with each other. Not sure about the R1250RT, which is very similar to the FJR in engine size. I do have an acquaintance who runs a newer R1250RT as a tourer and he and his wife do quite a bit of longer distance touring on it. The R1200/1250RT may be closer in price point on the used market to the FJR than the flagship K1600.

 

[Ted]

It seems like the FJR and Bimmer both compete pretty well with each other. Not sure about the R1250RT, which is very similar to the FJR in engine size. I do have an acquaintance who runs a newer R1250RT as a tourer and he and his wife do quite a bit of longer distance touring on it. The R1200/1250RT may be closer in price point on the used market to the FJR than the flagship K1600.

I’m a boxer fan personally and I don’t think the 1600 vs the 1250RT offers that much difference in features. The 1600 has more power but the boxer has a nice personality and lots of torque.

Keep in mind the water cooled 1200RT will be pretty similar, although I can say the 1250 does have a noticeable increase in grunt vs a 1200.

 

[steingar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

@Ted I just got back from a three week ride to Canada. Stayed in a cabin in Nova Scotia at the end of a 3 mile dirt road that was just off a 4 mile or so gravel road. On my Italian race bike. I've ridden farther than you ever will through conditions more challenging than you've ever seen, and all on street bikes with street tires. After you give up bikes for your next avocation I'll still be riding the world. I don't know if I'll ever fly again, but I'll be riding until I can't, and it is my fondest hope that the reason I can't is I'm too busy being dead.

 

[Bill]

Honestly two up really sucks for a passenger on anything short of a Goldwing or fully decked out large cruiser. You're not going to find a lot of people that are going to want to sit on the back of a FJR, Concours, or any such machine all day. I sure wouldn't want to.

Exactly the reason I have two bikes. The R1200GS for one up fu, and the Goldwing Tour DCT for two up touring.

@Ted I just got back from a three week ride to Canada. Stayed in a cabin in Nova Scotia at the end of a 3 mile dirt road that was just off a 4 mile or so gravel road. On my Italian race bike. I've ridden farther than you ever will through conditions more challenging than you've ever seen, and all on street bikes with street tires. After you give up bikes for your next avocation I'll still be riding the world. I don't know if I'll ever fly again, but I'll be riding until I can't, and it is my fondest hope that the reason I can't is I'm too busy being dead.

 

[jesse]

@Ted I just got back from a three week ride to Canada. Stayed in a cabin in Nova Scotia at the end of a 3 mile dirt road that was just off a 4 mile or so gravel road. On my Italian race bike. I've ridden farther than you ever will through conditions more challenging than you've ever seen, and all on street bikes with street tires. After you give up bikes for your next avocation I'll still be riding the world. I don't know if I'll ever fly again, but I'll be riding until I can't, and it is my fondest hope that the reason I can't is I'm too busy being dead.

Well, given the following facts:
1. Ted is much younger than you
2. Ted has owned a motorcycle the entire time I've known him

I would say it is much more likely that you'll be six foot under long before Ted stops riding.