Thinking about a dual sport/adventure Motorcycle

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Ted, Jun 7, 2021.

  1. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    I did a 30 second look but it appears that open source tuning and flashing software may be available for this engine/ECU. You might be able to set the mixture where it runs best and get the timing right. Maybe the second plug will help power and efficiency as well.

    I suspect swirl and the way the flame travels during combustion drove the need for a second plug, especially with lean mixtures.
     
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  2. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Ooh... now that would be useful. What/where have you found open source tuning/flashing software? I'd be 100% interested in that...

    Yes, I'd agree that makes sense.
     
  3. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    https://tuneecu.net/
    https://tunertools.com/products/euroflash-motorcycle-interface

    This looks like it might cover your application. I don’t know anything about it nor do I know exactly what you have so more homework would be necessary before jumping in with both feet. I’ve worked on plenty of Bosch and Marelli ECUs but don’t know what BMW is doing or using. The good news is that the bike is European, which generally translates into greater tuning interest and cheap/free tuning tools.
     
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  4. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Thanks, that gives me some good places to get started looking through and see. It uses a Bosch Motronic of some sort. It would definitely be preferable to work with the existing ECU if I can do so easily/cheaply.
     
  5. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    I was guessing it was a Bosch ECU of some sort. You might also peruse the nefarious motorsports web board; it is mainly focused on the ECUs found on Audis but there is a little bit of everything for Bosch stuff.
     
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  6. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I'll do some more digging. I'd say one project at a time, but of course that's not how I work. Not even close.
     
  7. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I got a bit of time last night to start playing around with swapping the new carbs on as well as installing the new rectifier on the Morini. After getting confirmation on how the rectifier, that was simple.

    I got one of the PHBH30s off and started swapping parts over to the PHBH28. Unfortunately, the atomizer isn't the same design between the two, although all the other parts do fit. This screwed things up a bit since my plan was to start off with just using all the jets/needles/etc. from the old carbs and throw them on the new carbs, with the expectation it'll run a bit richer and go from there.

    The end result was that I kept the idle and cold start jets from the old carb, as well as the needle. But then I put in the slide, atomizer, and main jet from the new one. My belief is that this will ultimately make the thing run too rich, and I'll have to tune it down from there. However because of the different atomizer design, that may not be the case. I'll just have to see. The Moto Guzzi V50 that these old carbs supposedly came off is rated for a similar horsepower to this (a bit less) so it may not be all that far off. I'm not all that optimistic, though. We'll see. I can always revert back if I decide that would do better.
     
  8. charheep

    charheep Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Once you have it running, and running well, is it done? Or is there more planned?
     
  9. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Good question. The only thing after it runs well I plan to do is get the rear brake working. Otherwise, just enjoy it.

    I’ve actually toyed with the idea of submitting it as a candidate to be on Jay Leno’s Garage (the YouTube channel). It’s a really odd and unique thing, but high he seems interested in.
     
  10. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Yesterday I felt like putting the Morini back together, so I did. Got the second carb rebuilt, put the fuel tank on, and got it running. Somewhat to my surprise, the thing started right up and ran very well. Of course the carbs were completely out of sync so first I got them sync'd and got the idle adjusted. After that, I played with the throttle some to see what the running was like. Not surprisingly, they were way too rich. I had put in the needles from the 30mm carbs which were significantly richer than the needles the 28mm carbs had come with. So, I put the leaner needles back in, and that made a very significant improvement. The bike is still too rich and at high throttle it basically hits a brick wall due to overfueling. So, I need to get some smaller main jets as I expected, at least that's what I currently think. I need to ride the bike on the road some to see in higher gears if I'm thinking the same thing.

    I'd also increased the preload on the rear shock and that helps quite a bit. Really it needs a new/better rear shock I think, but increasing the preload makes it less bouncy and that's doing well enough for the time being.
     
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  11. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    Good to hear that the carbs are working out, but I'm a little sad that a V50 had to die for this to happen, because that was the model of Moto Guzzi that I had.
     
  12. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I know, any parts that came off a parts bike mean a bike had to die. But, someone made the decision to sell them, and now this bike can live better. :)
     
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  13. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I’d ordered some new main jets for the Morini that would let me lean them out, as the mains were too rich. I put in 100 jets to replace the 110s, and rode it this evening when my daughter wanted to ride the dirt bike. It’s significantly better than it was. I’m going to ride it more, but I think that may be enough. Swapping main jets takes about 2 minutes, so I may try the next size down just to see what that does, but I want to ride it a bit more first.
     
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  14. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    A friend of mine sent me an MSD Sport Compact ignition box (which near is I can tell is an MSD 6A in a smaller package and set up for the lower ignition demand of a 4-cyl instead of a V8). He’d had it on a couple of his cars but wasn’t going to use it, and thought of the BMW when he fished it out of a box in his basement. It arrived yesterday, and so I installed it today.

    The benefit of the MSD box is that it will fire multiple sparks below a certain RPM and just a stronger spark above that. They don’t assume it being on a twin cylinder, so I’m not sure what that ends up being. But I put it on and it immediately seemed to start better and be more responsive and smoother. I’ll ride it around some, but the goal is to replace the single coil with two coils and get all 4 plugs working. And then at some point I’ll do the high compression pistons on it.

    I rode the Morini around more today. I’m pretty sure it still needs to be leaned out a couple more jet sizes.
     
  15. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I rode the BMW and the Morini some this week with their respective changes. I think that the Morini's main jets were still too rich, so I replaced the 100 jets with 95s. I'll see how those do.

    The BMW is hugely better. It runs much better at low RPM, it starts easier, it's more responsive everywhere. More power? Well probably not appreciably, but it just runs a lot better. So I got some coils coming for me to set it up to run on dual spark, both spark plugs firing. I could from there play with spark plug gap, but I'll wait on that. One thing at a time. The MSD box incidentally did pretty much exactly what I remembered it doing on my V12 Jag back 20 years ago, which makes sense. Both setups were pretty taxing on the ignition systems, and really needed to have better ignition. That's why BMW went with the twin spark setup in the first place on later R1150s (all variants), and they were copying a fix that the aftermarket had pioneered and found successful.

    After that will be high compression, but that will be some point in the future. I don't want to do other big projects on the bike during riding season, and especially while I'm trying to get the RX-7 and Cobra going in time to get some races/drives this season.
     
  16. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Yesterday was my friend's memorial service and the associated ride. He was part of the American Legion Riders, and so they did a memorial ride and final ride for his ashes. He liked the BMW and thought it was cool just the way it was, so that's what I brought. They were kind enough to let me join the ride, even though it's been a while since I've done any group rides and was riding a dirty BMW adventure bike. One thing I like in Kansas is that the motorcycle community is pretty inclusive, and I haven't seen many people thumb their noses up at others for bike types. I definitely was in the "Which of these is not like the others" category.

    [​IMG]

    It was really hot, but it was still a nice ride.
     
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  17. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pattern Altitude

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    Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. My condolences.
    Our club is inclusive of all types of bikes, but in Oregon Harleys tend to outnumber everything else. We are an older generation of riders and a trike or two usually joins us as some are no longer able to ride on two wheels. Personally, I’ve owned all the Japanese brands and Harleys as I’m non-denominational when it comes to motorcycles. Never owned a BMW but seriously considered buy a “brick” back in the day. Ducatis have also caught my eye but that desmodromic valvetrain seems to be a PITA. Sorry for rambling!
     
  18. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

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    I never understand the shade thrown at people just by looking at their bike. If the guy was standing next to it talking about all his off road adventures, I’d say fire away. (Although you still never really know).

    These bikes are great road warriors! Why hate on people that don’t use it for your preferred use? Is a 20k mile multi-country road trip an adventure? I’d argue that it is!

    I am by no means an off-road pro! I’m a complete novice but I like riding on and off road on my GSA. I have a similar wind blocker on top of my windscreen. If you actually do long days in the saddle at speed, you will appreciate it. The cover on the lights isn’t for wind, it’s for rocks. Catching a rock on the headlight lens or on the oil cooler (right below the light) is a very expensive and potentially stranding event.

    Trade-ins are especially weird. You never know if they fixed it up to trade it in or just rode it to the dealer as-is.

    Anyway, back to the rebuilds!
     
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  19. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Well with only 4K miles on an 11 year old bike, you know he couldn’t have gone too far with it. :)

    I get your point, and I think it was a great find for whoever bought it. But it wasn’t for me.
     
  20. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I’m similar. We’ve owned bikes from every Japanese brand, Harleys, Triumphs, and I’ve got more on the bucket list (including Ducatis). I think they all have merit.

    And one day, it’ll probably move to trikes.
     
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  21. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    As Ted mentioned, the fact that it had all of the accessories but only had 4K miles in over a decade is what led me to my comment. I mean, to each their own with regard to bikes and what they want to strap on them. Plenty of Jeep Wranglers with 35" wheels and jacks/Jerry cans strapped to them that never get off of the pavement.