Think twice before landing at military base...

Now if he declared, I wonder if they would let him land.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Now if he declared, I wonder if they would let him land.
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Yes, but I don't think they'd let him takeoff.

A few years back some CAP guy landed at an AFB due to some emergency, had to take the plane apart and ship it on a truck.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Now if he declared, I wonder if they would let him land.
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The controller did clear him to land, even without his declaring an emergency.

And there was no emergency to declare. Bad weather at your destination does not by itself constitute an emergency. You just divert.

So if he'd declared an emergency, it would have been under false pretenses, which would have gotten him in even more trouble than the $1500 fine he received.
 
acrophile said:
The controller did clear him to land, even without his declaring an emergency.

And there was no emergency to declare. Bad weather at your destination does not by itself constitute an emergency. You just divert.

So if he'd declared an emergency, it would have been under false pretenses, which would have gotten him in even more trouble than the $1500 fine he received.
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Understood but assuming he had a legitimate emergency and there were no other options, would there still be repercussions?
 
Looks like having a flight plan didn't save him...
 
We landed at Palmdale USAF Plant 42, after declaring an emergency.

There was some paperwork, and they even loaned a mechanic. We were out of there after about 4 hours.
 
A lot of hassle for what should be a non event. A 30 day notice and proper paper work (PPR) would be all that's required. Considering his rank, his diverting and the fact that he was giving a presentation there should have made up for the lack of coordination. A little common sense goes a long ways.

We used to have civilian contract Turbo Commanders s come into NBC every now and then with no problems...proper paperwork. Had a PA-28 come in emergency once and did the PAR pretty sure nothing punitive happened to him. Don't know how many times I've seen family members walking around military ramps escorted by pilots. Not exactly Area 51.

Seems like some overreacting to a situation that isn't a big deal.
 
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Depends on the base, obviously. Grissom ARB (GUS) was practically begging us to come land there. I was doing instrument training with my CFII, talking to Grissom approach, headed to OKK. They advised of a NOTAM for aerobatic aircraft (although it wasn't shut down for an airshow), and told us Grissom was available. So we shot the approaches there. GUS has a public FBO and an aviation museum, too.
 
Landed at GUS with my son (Navy) and we walked to the museum. Funny thing is that Grissom is the base I would fly military hops to when I was stationed in AK. I would leave a name at the guard shack and mom and dad had no issues picking me up there.
 
DOD takes this stuff seriously. Unless you have a PPR, don't plan on going there unless you say the "E"-word
 
Gucci Pilot said:
DOD takes this stuff seriously. Unless you have a PPR, don't plan on going there unless you say the "E"-word
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Yeah I think either the pilot or the controller should've gotten the E word out. Seems like no one wanted to take control and clarify the situation. Would've saved a lot of heartache in the end.
 
So much for the theory that you avoid paperwork by not saying the 'E' word.
 
kgruber said:
We landed at Palmdale USAF Plant 42, after declaring an emergency.

There was some paperwork, and they even loaned a mechanic. We were out of there after about 4 hours.
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Palmdale is not a military airport. Just, most of its operations are military-related. It's surrounded by government agencies and contractors, one of which is Plant 42.

It's owned by LAWA, same as LAX. It has had commercial operations in the recent past.

Try landing at Edwards instead. Emergency or not.
 
I'm curious if he tried to secure permission before hand and was denied. Either way, it's pretty common knowledge among armed service members who are also pilots that landing on a DOD field requires PPR. I think cuffing the guy was a bit unnecessary, though.
 
rbridges said:
it said he was fined $1500, but is that the end of it, or are there ramifications from the verdict?
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He probably got a blemish on his military record. Plus I'd rather not get thrown to the ground, cuffed, all while having a bunch of M4s pointed at me. Then having to cough up $1,500 dollars. I'll bet it was funny for the security forces guys. Enlisted MPs would LOVE an opportunity to throw an officer to the ground and cuff him. The officers get "special" treatment ;)

He wasn't an Air Force pilot, so he probably thought he could use his rank to pull a, "Hey, I made a mistake and have a presentation to go to. I'll be back and straighten it out with your supervisor" But they don't mess around with flight line ops.
 
Should have just called base ops and worked it ahead of time. I flew in to Eglin, AFB all the time when I needed to. Granted they have / had a GA club on the base, but still would have tried it. Worse than can say is NO!!!
 
Absolutely ridiculous to waste tax payer dollars on this.
 
If you want to fly into mil bases just join the Civil Air Patrol. My former squadron operated out of Buckley and Peterson AFBs. In fact the CO Wing has offices on both bases. Call Base Ops and let them know. If a member were flying his/her aircraft in for a SAREX or something, s/he could receive authorization to land.
 
Did the pilot intend to land there,from the start? Could have been some description on his part. Like the part where he keeps mentioning his high rank.
 
jmp470 said:
Should have just called base ops and worked it ahead of time. I flew in to Eglin, AFB all the time when I needed to. Granted they have / had a GA club on the base, but still would have tried it. Worse than can say is NO!!!
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I don't know his circumstances, but 1) he should have left earlier so he could have more time to spare and 2) he should have accounted for the possibility of bad weather and/or issues with the plane.

If the presentation is that important, he shouldn't have been depending on a perfect flight. Anyone on this board who has flown more than .1 hours knows that you can't count on weather being cooperative 100% of the time.
 
He's a military officer giving a presentation there. Why wasn't that an automatic authorization by the base commander? Bureaucratic stupidity at its finest.
 
we only see the reported news story. Apparently more to the story and the pilot may have misled the tower into thinking he was "on the cleared list" to land. Big no no for a military officer, where trust and ethics are placed in high priority.

I think if a emergency was declared, things would be different. Doubt the pilot would "do it exactly the same" on the next time.
 
MachFly said:
Yes, but I don't think they'd let him takeoff.

A few years back some CAP guy landed at an AFB due to some emergency, had to take the plane apart and ship it on a truck.
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Military airfields belong to we taxpayers. They are to be used in emergencies just like any other airport. The only requirement obviously is to declare an emergency and contact the tower and/or approach for the airfield. If they refuse to help, THEY become responsible for the accident.

So, they will accomodate.

They may come out and surround you with guards, but that's okay, at least you lived. And they CANNOT take your plane or your property...they are required to help you.
 
Usually a " hi ranking officer (commander? Captain?) would pull this off without incident. It usually starts at the top. The base commander could be a complete A.H. It's a real waste of money if this fellow is really a high ranking officer and turns out to be who he claimed he was. Base commander should be retired.
 
CTLSi said:
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Military airfields belong to we taxpayers. They are to be used in emergencies just like any other airport. The only requirement obviously is to declare an emergency and contact the tower and/or approach for the airfield. If they refuse to help, THEY become responsible for the accident.

So, they will accomodate.

They may come out and surround you with guards, but that's okay, at least you lived. And they CANNOT take your plane or your property...they are required to help you.
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Yes but they are not required to let you takeoff.
 
kgruber said:
Wrong.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/nfdcApps/airportLookup/airportDisplay.jsp?airportId=PMD
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Umm, I spend A LOT of time at that airport.

It is owned by civilians. Despite what NFDC says, Plant 42 is one of several tenants on the airport, and hasn't been the owner for more than a decade. United Airlines ran not-very-profitable shuttle service there for several years, not a common thing for a "military" airfield.

Having said that, landing without PPR is not a wise idea. PPR is not limited to military airports. If you land at NUQ (which is also civilian, though it's still US government), you will be unhappy as well.
 
You mean an emergency like gen. Curtiss lemay landing at the sac base I was assigned to in a air sea. Rescue b17, he had commandeered in Alaska, to take our base commander pheasant hunting in the Dakotas? or driving his new xke jag on the runway while we were ordered to hold for half an hour at offut afb?
 
MachFly said:
Yes, but I don't think they'd let him takeoff.

A few years back some CAP guy landed at an AFB due to some emergency, had to take the plane apart and ship it on a truck.
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Which wing? "A" mission or otherwise? Which AFB?

I find this rather hard to believe, unless he landed at a secret base.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Usually a " hi ranking officer (commander? Captain?) would pull this off without incident. It usually starts at the top. The base commander could be a complete A.H. It's a real waste of money if this fellow is really a high ranking officer and turns out to be who he claimed he was. Base commander should be retired.
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Captain in this case. Reserves, though.
 
wsuffa said:
Captain in this case. Reserves, though.
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I'll bet you couldn't have driven a spike up Amelia's behind a half hour before she crashed. Plenty frightened due to real bad decisions. I doubt courage had much to do with the trip. More like adulation and fame. Sold a lot of luggage.
 
jmp470 said:
Should have just called base ops and worked it ahead of time. I flew in to Eglin, AFB all the time when I needed to. Granted they have / had a GA club on the base, but still would have tried it. Worse than can say is NO!!!
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When I was stationed at Eglin (70-73), it was also used for civilian airliners. They had a terminal there. Made going on leave a lot easier.
 
petrolero said:
If you want to fly into mil bases just join the Civil Air Patrol. My former squadron operated out of Buckley and Peterson AFBs. In fact the CO Wing has offices on both bases. Call Base Ops and let them know. If a member were flying his/her aircraft in for a SAREX or something, s/he could receive authorization to land.
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Yeah, just remember to land past the retracted arresting cables at Buckley. It's hard on small landing gear. ;)
 
jesse said:
Absolutely ridiculous to waste tax payer dollars on this.
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I agree. Guy is a military officer and landed without proper authorization on a military field. He should be subject to the military judicial process, not wasting federal court time and money.
 
rbridges said:
will that have much impact on his career or pilots certificate?
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Probably not much impact on career. He is already an O-6 in the reserves. He obviously isn't going to make flag, but not going to be reduced in rank either. Probably have an ugly letter in his record which isn't going to mean a whole lot (unless he really had a shot at flag). Worst thing would be forced retirement from the reserves.

I suppose the FAA could take action on his certificate, but I have no idea if they will.
 
MAKG1 said:
Umm, I spend A LOT of time at that airport.

It is owned by civilians. Despite what NFDC says, Plant 42 is one of several tenants on the airport, and hasn't been the owner for more than a decade. United Airlines ran not-very-profitable shuttle service there for several years, not a common thing for a "military" airfield.

Having said that, landing without PPR is not a wise idea. PPR is not limited to military airports. If you land at NUQ (which is also civilian, though it's still US government), you will be unhappy as well.
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You may have spent a lot of time there, but you don't squat about the technicalities of the ownership. I've been researching the situation at PMD for the past year for work.

The Air Force has owned it since the early 1950s. AF Plant 42 includes the airfield, not just part of the industrial complex. PMD is a joint-use airport. Joint-use airports are military airfields that allow civilian operations under an agreement between the military service and a local government entity. That was Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA) until late last year when sponsorship was transferred to the City of Palmdale.

The civilian "airport" consists of a small, disused terminal (commercial ops ended in 2008) and the taxiway leading to it. Several military contractors (Lockheed-Martin, Northrup Grumman, etc.) are located at the airport, some operate their own facilities, others operate government-owned facilities. Most of the contractor flight ops are operated under the same civil aircraft landing permit process used at regular Air Force bases.

The Air Force, for a while, contracted out the operation of AF Plant 42, but brought it back in house a few years ago. This year, AF Plant 42 is becoming a sub unit of 412th Test Wing at Edwards AFB.
 
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