They don't foam runways anymore, it's a myth (Arlington TX C401 gear-up)
- Thread starter Let'sgoflying!
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Craig
Cleared for Takeoff
Nope, it's owned by a relative of Jason's and not the organization. They were looking at it, but his uncle bought it instead.
flyingpreacher
Line Up and Wait
And in the interest of this not coming down on Rebuild Rescue, another shop had performed the work on the plane over a 16-month long annual (plane had been sitting in a hangar for over a decade, so it needed a lot to make it airworthy). The gear had been swung multiple times during the inspection phases and this was the either the first or second “in-flight” cycle.
A part of the scissor mechanism snapped during gear extension causing the left main to not deploy resulting in a planned gear up landing.
Relevant points:
1. Rebuild Rescue did not perform the maintenance.
2. The plane had been purchased by a relative (Uncle Ted) of the Rebuild Rescue guy (Jason).
3. The pilot performing the flight in question was former ATC and specifically requested foam. The tower controller didn’t know if foam was available and had to talk to airport ops, but they were able to foam the runway.
A part of the scissor mechanism snapped during gear extension causing the left main to not deploy resulting in a planned gear up landing.
Relevant points:
1. Rebuild Rescue did not perform the maintenance.
2. The plane had been purchased by a relative (Uncle Ted) of the Rebuild Rescue guy (Jason).
3. The pilot performing the flight in question was former ATC and specifically requested foam. The tower controller didn’t know if foam was available and had to talk to airport ops, but they were able to foam the runway.
4CornerFlyer
Line Up and Wait
I don't know the answer to this question, but I would think if there is such a charge it would be reimbursable by aircraft insurance.
Jon
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Not something I'd be worried about given the circumstances
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The news always says that the airplane circled for a while to burn off fuel, in reality they are waiting for CFR to run the credit card info.
Foam has been shown to be ineffective and is no longer in use. They just sprayed standard fire fighting retardant on the runway. That’s also not normally recommended especially on transport category aircraft where it extends the rollout.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
We don't foam runways anymore, that hasn't been taught or practiced for decades. From what I've heard about this incident, the pilot requested it and the fire guys complied, although I'm not sure why.
The foam we carry on airport fire trucks is designed and used to extinguish burning fuel fires. It has zero effect on a sliding airplane and is a waste of resources you could possibly need after the aircraft comes to a stop.
The foam we carry on airport fire trucks is designed and used to extinguish burning fuel fires. It has zero effect on a sliding airplane and is a waste of resources you could possibly need after the aircraft comes to a stop.
ateamer
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Putting down foam because someone outside their chain of command wants it makes as much sense as them sending a brush attack instead of a CFR truck because the pilot asked for it.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I wish I understood it too. At smaller fields, it is not uncommon for the airport fire to consist of airport maintenance staff, or off airport firefighters from the local jurisdiction that may not be as up to date and proficient with modern ARFF tactics.
19 years as ARFF I've never been trained or requested to foam a runway, nor will I. It's about understanding your tools and agents, and what they can do and can't do.
Pinecone
Final Approach
USAF stopped foaming runways in the late 70s. After reviewing the performance, all it did was extend the slide by the length of the foam. Airplane did not significantly slow down until after it ran off the foam.
I was going to say, I could see foam lengthening the slide.
Pinecone
Final Approach
Well, the idea is to reduce friction to reduce damage. So no friction, it keeps on sliding.
I actually didn't realize that was the intent. I assumed it was for fire preventionWell, the idea is to reduce friction to reduce damage. So no friction, it keeps on sliding.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Well, the idea is to reduce friction to reduce damage. So no friction, it keeps on sliding.
I actually didn't realize that was the intent. I assumed it was for fire prevention
I really doubt damage is reduced much if at all. If you are going to land gear up, you are going to damage the belly, likely going to prop strike and get the engines. Its going to happen, just accept it.
Gear up landings rarely result in fire, practically never result in injury, yet everyone gets so worked up over them. There is a video on Youtube of one years ago, where the pilot asked ATC to tell his wife he loved her. Why?
If anything, it adds additional corrosion as the foam fire retardant will get up into the nooks and crannies that might otherwise not be damaged. That stuff is very corrosive to aluminum.
The best plan is to have the ARFF stage along the approach of the runway and belly land on dry pavement. If there's a fire the ARFF crew will deal with it, but otherwise no fuss, no mess. Just (gently) haul away the aircraft and open back up the runway.
If it's a multi-runway runway, as a courtesy avoid putting it down at the intersection of the two runways if possible.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Spot on! The recovery is usually the biggest problem. Depending on the situation, it can shut down the runway or the airport for hours. Many a geared up aircraft have been totaled because of improper recovery/lifting techniques.