The ultimate tin-foil hat...

So what would the benefit of this unless you are a spy or crazy?
 
If it does still allow cell signals through it could be an effective anti piracy/theft tool...
 
Wallpaper that filters out "up to three different frequencies simultaneously" is a little more sophisticated than a Faraday cage.
 
Wallpaper that filters out "up to three different frequencies simultaneously" is a little more sophisticated than a Faraday cage.

Strange, the building I am in seems capable of filtering out more than three frequencies simultaneously.

On the FM band, theres: 94.5, 96.1, 104.5, 107.3 and 107.9 that I know it successfully filters, as well as a bunch on the AM band.
 
Strange, the building I am in seems capable of filtering out more than three frequencies simultaneously.

On the FM band, theres: 94.5, 96.1, 104.5, 107.3 and 107.9 that I know it successfully filters, as well as a bunch on the AM band.

That would imply that your building is shielded with something other than the wallpaper described in the article, which is not on the market yet.
 
Why would you want to block WiFi, but not the other services? That earlier OFCOM project just sounds wrong. Some people really need to get a life.
 
Wallpaper that filters out "up to three different frequencies simultaneously" is a little more sophisticated than a Faraday cage.

Ha... no... "three different frequencies simultaneously" is Marketing-speak for "we looked up that there are three frequency bands in 802.11 and that's what we're selling towards!"...

I'm sure it's just metal-impregnated paper and that's just a Faraday Cage... a poor one, too. But it'll filter out a LOT more than "up to three different frequencies simultaneously".
 
Ha... no... "three different frequencies simultaneously" is Marketing-speak for "we looked up that there are three frequency bands in 802.11 and that's what we're selling towards!"...

I'm sure it's just metal-impregnated paper and that's just a Faraday Cage... a poor one, too. But it'll filter out a LOT more than "up to three different frequencies simultaneously".

Then how do you explain this:

Ofcom engineers have confirmed to New Scientist that the wallpaper can block Wi-Fi at 2.4, 5 and 6 gigahertz, while letting through GSM and 3G cellphone signals, plus emergency service calls.

(Ofcom is the UK's telecoms regulator.)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6240-stealth-wallpaper-keeps-company-secrets-safe.html

That article also explains the technology involved, and the motivation for doing it.

During my engineering career, I learned that just because I couldn't figure out how something was done didn't prove that it couldn't be done.
 
Oh I know Ofcom well. They're um... different. ;)

The embedded metal is probably just arranged in a grid that blocks more of the higher frequencies than lower. Anything starting around 2.3 GHz will block 802.11 and let cellular through.

And the cell site can always ask your phone to crank up it's power level to make up for the loss in the "skirts" around 1.8 Ghz too, or drop the phone down to a lower band (and probably 2G in worst case scenarios).

I suspect battery life on any cell phone in the house will suffer significantly.
 
P.S. This is basically the same concept a slotted waveguide or phased array radar antenna uses.
 
I don't know much about electronics, but it dawned on me that a micro wave oven has radar stopping components to it and I wondered if a cell phone or wifi would work inside the micro wave oven.

Wifi quits when door is closed.
Cell phones signal / reception is not affected.

Do not try this at home, I am a trained professional. :goofy:
 
I don't know much about electronics, but it dawned on me that a micro wave oven has radar stopping components to it and I wondered if a cell phone or wifi would work inside the micro wave oven.

Wifi quits when door is closed.
Cell phones signal / reception is not affected.

Do not try this at home, I am a trained professional. :goofy:

You must have a huge microwave. I tried to duplicate your experiment but could barely fit my head and one shoulder inside, and no way was the door getting closed. :dunno:
 
A programmer friend worked on top secret software. He told me that they worked inside a faraday cage to prevent eavesdroppers from receiving their keyboard RF and decoding their keystrokes. Sounds paranoid to me but it was only government money.
 
You must have a huge microwave. I tried to duplicate your experiment but could barely fit my head and one shoulder inside, and no way was the door getting closed. :dunno:

Did you do that at home? :wink2:
 
A programmer friend worked on top secret software. He told me that they worked inside a faraday cage to prevent eavesdroppers from receiving their keyboard RF and decoding their keystrokes. Sounds paranoid to me but it was only government money.

I could tell you about that world, but then... you know the rest. :D

He wasn't feeding you a line, I'll just leave it at that.
 
A programmer friend worked on top secret software. He told me that they worked inside a faraday cage to prevent eavesdroppers from receiving their keyboard RF and decoding their keystrokes. Sounds paranoid to me but it was only government money.

Also every Defense contractor has a "SLIC" that is RF-shielded. That's just the low-end of the technology.

Look up TEMPEST ratings for very early attempts at shielding electronics. Modern technique make that stuff look like Tinker Toys. Old tech and standards. Newer ones are much harder.

Stuff like this wallpaper has been in use out of the public eye for decades. Bugs. Active and passive jamming of RF. Laser light off of windows to pick up sounds. Active window vibrators to thwart same. That's just the unclassified stuff these days.

A friend complains that a kindly vendor once sent him a very nice USB stick (well below the trigger limits for bribes) to his work address, which means he can't use it and it'll never leave the building without being ground into a fine powder, ever. The vendor joked that they can't send one to his house because of the same bribery laws.

Of course, they pay him handsomely for such inconveniences in his life (thwarts bribery again) and once he was chosen for that kind of work, he's pretty much set for life, money-wise.

There's a nice shiny new enormous data center in Utah looking for the right folks to live and work the rest of their lives with no public recognition and unable to speak of anything they do to anyone, even family, until someone publishes a tell-all book 50 years hence... and even then, all you might say is, "I can neither confirm nor deny."

Note, it's not a secret that most U.S. transcontinental fiber routes pass through or are easily and quietly reached from Utah. Railroad right of ways. Phillip Anschutz. Made a fortune.

Another now deceased ham radio acquaintance had a simple black award plaque on a small stand behind his hardware engineering workbench at home that said simply, "Honorary Award - NSA". No date. No information that could even hint at why.


He took whatever he built for them with him to his grave. Cleaning out his house, I've never carried so much digital circuit test gear from the 1970s era to a dumpster.

Super smart and the nicest guy.

We had another thread about Jesse's stop light project recently. This guy was the person I said always liked the AVR micro controllers better than the PIC that I did my projects with. That stop-light thing would have been about an hour from prototype to code-complete for him.

Took him about four days to design his own giant LED WWV clock for his living room years before GPS was even popular. Hardest part was waiting on the giant 6" LED number arrays to show up.

Bob was good people. He's missed. Always wonder how many lives he saved and didn't even know it.

Using video cards as massive parallel processing devices was a new-ish idea ten to fifteen years ago. Now that code is easily accessible to any password cracker who wants to use it. A mediocre-fast PC with as many video cards crammed in it as will fit power and space and cooling-wise, is an incredible crypto tool. A cluster of them is a monster. That's a decade old idea at this point.

Means that whatever's going into Utah is mind-blowingly fast. We'll hear about it in 50 years or so, if I'm still alive then to read the book.

http://m.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

James Bamford's books are a good primer on the general world of the NSA. He's ****ed a number of folks off over the years condensing and summarizing and putting puzzle pieces together from unclassified FOIA released documents and some which were questionable but fell into the realm of "no one will ever figure out how that relates".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bamford

I think I liked Body of Secrets best... it went toward my data center and computer geekiness.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_of_Secrets

Then again, acting upset is an excellent disinformation technique. ;)

You really can't tell in spy games who's lying and who's not, because the players start to believe the lies. Got to be some of the most fascinating history ever, spy stuff. Really tweaks your head thinking about the motivation to spy, how to counter spies with lies, etc. Fun.

For those who prefer nautical tales, "Blind Man's Bluff" was also an excellent read, if not with a few major errors and showing its age at this point.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Man's_Bluff:_The_Untold_Story_of_American_Submarine_Espionage
 
TEMPEST is alive and well. I know a headhunter looking for a certified TEMPEST engineer right now. I got out of that world 30 years ago.
 
Tin foil wall paper. Sheesh. Amateur 30th rate losers trying to act like they're doing something great and high tech by attempting to block a few radio signals with inadequate materials.

If you're going to do it, do it right.

In the old part of Dallas, SW Dallas area IIRC, there is a neighborhood that was built right after WWII when they had all that war production surplus materials laying around going to waste. What to do with all that inch plus thick plate steel that was going to be used on ships and tanks laying around...

They built quite a few houses with the steel and they're rather nice. All the corners are welded properly by real actual skilled welders who knew how to weld. Everything is steel plate - floors, walls, ceilings, roofs. Big mounting brackets that mount it to the serious concrete pilings underneath. You can set a ball bearing on any floor surface and it will not roll on it's own. Exterior doors and window shutters are steel plate on hinges that move with the slightest touch. (WWII battleship type door hinges, not wallyworld junk) Interior doors I can't remember but there were a couple serious dead bolts on the exterior doors. Attach points for normal roofing and siding material to make it look nice and insulation as desired. It's completely rot proof. Completely fire proof. Completely gang banger (and swat team) bullet proof. Completely drunk driver drives into the living room in a speeding SUV proof. And no tornado or severe weather will ever move it at all. The door and window frames are true squares and rectangles...if the door or window doesn't fit, it's because the door/window is built shoddily and out of square, not the house. Interior plumbing that will never fail. Piping for electrics through the walls and floors.

I'm pretty sure one of those houses will stop a weak wi-fi signals. I know for a fact they will completely stop tv and radio signals from the big south dallas transmission towers nearby. My dad did television repair and we got to go into a few of those houses over the years in the 1980's. If you set up an antenna in the living room with signal boosters and close the windows and door, the field strength meter shows zero on the end of the wire...we know because that's exactly what we did for fun one day. It had two inch thick plate steel walls...exterior and interior.
 
TEMPEST is alive and well. I know a headhunter looking for a certified TEMPEST engineer right now. I got out of that world 30 years ago.

Ahh I thought they'd given it a new code name in modern times. Probably "TEMPEST version 14.6" instead or something. Haha. Too many different types of TEMPEST certifications in reality. Computers, data circuits, etc. Different techniques for all.
 
I believe the Faraday cage is only applicable for static charge. Wrong physics model.
 
Tin foil wall paper. Sheesh. Amateur 30th rate losers trying to act like they're doing something great and high tech by attempting to block a few radio signals with inadequate materials.

It's not tin foil wall paper. (See link in post #11 for details.)

I'm pretty sure one of those houses will stop a weak wi-fi signals. I know for a fact they will completely stop tv and radio signals from the big south dallas transmission towers nearby. My dad did television repair and we got to go into a few of those houses over the years in the 1980's. If you set up an antenna in the living room with signal boosters and close the windows and door, the field strength meter shows zero on the end of the wire...we know because that's exactly what we did for fun one day. It had two inch thick plate steel walls...exterior and interior.

They had a requirement to let mobile phone signals through.
 
I believe the Faraday cage is only applicable for static charge. Wrong physics model.

Faraday cages are used to block RF. We used them in the auto industry for RF testing labs. In that application they kept out stray RF. In the secrecy application mentioned above the Faraday cage keeps in RF.
 
Another now deceased ham radio acquaintance had a simple black award plaque on a small stand behind his hardware engineering workbench at home that said simply, "Honorary Award - NSA". No date. No information that could even hint at why.

That sounds like a great item to produce and sell on eBay.
 
So what would the benefit of this unless you are a spy or crazy?

It potentially could make it more difficult for someone to use your wireless connection to upload kiddie porn (that way YOU go to jail, not the person generating the porn).

But, how well would it work in a building with windows and doors? It may attenuate the signal, but how much?
 
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