The two F-15's today...

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150man

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150man
sure made the Air Force and the presidential TFR's look rediculous. A guy busts the TFR in a seaplane. Two F-15's are scrambled that break the sound barrier, and by the time they get there, the guy has landed some miles away. Now if there was a terrorist intent on trying to kill the president with an airplane, it would only take him about 5 minutes to cover the 10nm radius of the TFR even in a slow airplane. It would be very lucky for anyone to get him in that amount of time from a cold start. So, I really don't get these TFR's around the president. And while were at it, how is a 3 mile TFR around a stadium going to keep some crazy from plowing his airplane into a crowd?

Edit: Correction, I guess the TFR was 30 mi, and no fly zone 10, but still..
 
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Subject is to be located, secured, and transported to a central MindCrime Re-education facility immediately.
 
Jack Spectre said:
Subject is to be located, secured, and transported to a central MindCrime Re-education facility immediately.
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That's ThoughtCrime, not MindCrime! Get your newspeak correct Comrade!! Big Brother is watching and Big Brother loves us all, that's why he built the Ministry of Love!! :crazy:
 
150man said:
And while were at it, how is a 3 mile TFR around a stadium going to keep some crazy from plowing his airplane into a crowd?
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Stadia TFRs have nothing to do with a nutjob plowing his plane into the crowd. They're all about keeping the banner tows out so the stadium maintains their monopoly concession on advertising at the game.
 
Cessna 185 on floats. Guy flew in from a lake somewhere and landed at a seaplane facility, got the bad news from the dockhands.
 
I was closing the hangar doors on the Sport Cub at KVUO after a little lunch-hour aerotherapy session today when those two Oregon ANG F-15's went hauling out of KPDX in full burner right over me. I thought it was odd that they made an immediate right turn (northbound) right after takeoff rather than the normal departure westbound over the Columbia River.

A little while later at the office I began to see e-mails from colleagues in Seattle (160 miles away) about the "series of explosions" they were hearing -- which turned out to be the sonic booms from those same F-15's.
 
Of what properties were the two F-15 aircraft claiming possession? If nothing, get the apostrophe (') out of the plural reference. It should be F-15s, simply adding the s.
 
I left the claimed properties blank, Harley, (artistic license you know), to make you think and wonder what they may be.
 
Was it really necessary to send two? I guess they were expecting hell of a fight.:rolleyes2:
 
Dave Theisen said:
Was it really necessary to send two? I guess they were expecting hell of a fight.:rolleyes2:
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And I'm wondering how an F-15 could fly slow enough to engage a single engine Cessna. Wouldn't a helicopter make more sense? This country has become so paranoid after 911 that it makes you think the terrorists won to a certain extent.
 
150man said:
And I'm wondering how an F-15 could fly slow enough to engage a single engine Cessna. Wouldn't a helicopter make more sense?
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Depends on the helo. When the POTUS was in Milwaukee the USCG got tasked with intercept duty. They fly HH65 Dolphins around this area. The top speed of the HH65 is 165knots and it typically is flying at 120knots in cruise. Not exactly intercept speed. But once by most GA aircraft it can escort. The plan is to use fast movers to intercept and the if there are helos available, when they catch up, they are used for escort.


150man said:
This country has become so paranoid after 911 that it makes you think the terrorists won to a certain extent.
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Fixed that for you. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the fix! I feel the same way, but being a newbie here, I didn't want to come on too strong.
 
Such occurrences are very common amongst the masses: the misplaced apostrophe; there/their/they're; lose/loose/loser/looser; it's/its; and many other matters of correctly-spelled but incorrect applications of same.

Eye joust sea lose righting in sew many places its amazing they're so many eras witch can be spotted without having axed for there intended meaning as written. (And naught won of my intentional eras was highlighted as having bin bad spelling or use). :eek:)

Welcome to PoA, a nice place to be.

HR
 
Lawreston said:
Of what properties were the two F-15 aircraft claiming possession? If nothing, get the apostrophe (') out of the plural reference. It should be F-15s, simply adding the s.
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This has always bugged me with no good answer. How do I differentiate a single C-172S from several C-172s?

150man said:
sure made the Air Force and the presidential TFR's look rediculous. A guy busts the TFR in a seaplane. Two F-15's are scrambled that break the sound barrier, and by the time they get there, the guy has landed some miles away.
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What that really means is AF1 needs to have 4 escorts fly in formation from takeoff to landing.
 
"Government Security Apparatus et all"

- Pre-9/11 - Inept
- Post-9/11 - Inept, Expensive and Stupid
 
Dave Theisen said:
Was it really necessary to send two? I guess they were expecting hell of a fight.:rolleyes2:
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We don't do anything as a single ship. Any problems airborne, we need a chase-ship. Plus, the flight lead is so busy on any kind of scramble, the wingman has to do most of the see and avoid.

How do we intercept slow movers? We don't get slow! That's another reason to have 2 jets. One flies by while one is a few miles behind, that way you have radar or visual on the TOI at all times.
 
I'd feel pretty crummy if I was a fighter pilot, and I started out in the GA scene learning to fly -- intercepting my winged brothers in the name of security theater. Ending their days as pilots because they didn't phone mom first for permission to go fly.

I'd feel as low as a snake.
 
150man said:
Now if there was a terrorist intent on trying to kill the president with an airplane, it would only take him about 5 minutes to cover the 10nm radius of the TFR even in a slow airplane.
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Shhhhh... "they" might see this and arbitrarily enlarge the Presidential TFR's..
 
EvilEagle said:
We don't do anything as a single ship. Any problems airborne, we need a chase-ship. Plus, the flight lead is so busy on any kind of scramble, the wingman has to do most of the see and avoid.

How do we intercept slow movers? We don't get slow! That's another reason to have 2 jets. One flies by while one is a few miles behind, that way you have radar or visual on the TOI at all times.
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In other words, Wrong aircraft for the mission.
 
Dave Theisen said:
In other words, Wrong aircraft for the mission.
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We had an F-15 pilot do a seminar on intercepts at the last Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in.

He just laughed when we asked how he intercepted an aircraft going slightly above his stall speed. Getting any kind of ID was a real challenge...since they'd go flashing past so fast they could barely catch the "N" numbers...
 
The commanding officer of the last remaining USAF F-4 squadron (in FL) stayed at the same house in OSH. We discussed the IFR F-4 Baron intercept over the ocean off the NC coast a while back. Baron never seen again, but some Beech paint and human DNA found on leading edge of F-4 that closed to take a look.

His F-4 was in the form with the F-15 and 2 P-38's in the air show.

EvilEagle said:
We don't do anything as a single ship. Any problems airborne, we need a chase-ship. Plus, the flight lead is so busy on any kind of scramble, the wingman has to do most of the see and avoid.

How do we intercept slow movers? We don't get slow! That's another reason to have 2 jets. One flies by while one is a few miles behind, that way you have radar or visual on the TOI at all times.
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Jay Honeck said:
We had an F-15 pilot do a seminar on intercepts at the last Cherokee Pilots Association fly-in.

He just laughed when we asked how he intercepted an aircraft going slightly above his stall speed. Getting any kind of ID was a real challenge...since they'd go flashing past so fast they could barely catch the "N" numbers...
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Sounds like we in GA could have some fun with the fast movers by going into a configuration for minimum controllable airspeed!!! :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I'd feel pretty crummy if I was a fighter pilot, and I started out in the GA scene learning to fly -- intercepting my winged brothers in the name of security theater. Ending their days as pilots because they didn't phone mom first for permission to go fly.

I'd feel as low as a snake.
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Or maybe you'd feel like you are doing your job and that your brothers should be responsible pilots and check for TFRs. Phone calls are SO hard to make... :rolleyes2:
 
Ya know the GA pilot could have gotten his briefing and took off a couple hours before the pres. landed. Maybe he did make the call and there was no TFR is existence at the time. I wouldn't fault the ANG pilots for doing anything wrong. They have to follow orders, but I hope they felt like tools.
 
EvilEagle said:
Or maybe you'd feel like you are doing your job and that your brothers should be responsible pilots and check for TFRs. Phone calls are SO hard to make... :rolleyes2:
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Doing the job is part of it but not all of it. Are all TFRs published in a timely manner along with being necessary and effective?

Look at the stadium TFR. The FAA can't even be bothered to publish effective times but pilots are supposed to be able to figure it out. The moving TFRs are a whole 'nuther ballgame.

I've watched a flight school and a flying club shut-down ops while politicos were in town. I don't know if they couldn't actually read and understand the rules or were just overreacting. Sure, they avoided any intercepts but they also avoided revenue.

Then look at the TFR rules. Folks who don't routinely contact the FAA are supposed to be covered by the TFR. What kind of whacky system is that? I'm sure that hang-gliders are a valid security threat in somebody's mind. I do question the rationality of that somebody.

There is more to it than just making a phone call...
 
Clark1961 said:
Doing the job is part of it but not all of it. Are all TFRs published in a timely manner along with being necessary and effective?
...
There is more to it than just making a phone call...
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I'm not saying that the TFR system is good, that it works or that it is necessary. All I'm saying is that the pilots in the jets have Z E R O to do with the TFR. They just have to sit alert (when they'd rather be doing just about anything else in the world) and go intercept people who they know are probably no factor. All the while worrying that they are going to fly over the wrong place, get a HATR filed on them or in some other way screw up. Saying that the pilots should feel bad for doing their job??? Grow up.
 
EvilEagle said:
All the while worrying that they are going to fly over the wrong place, get a HATR filed on them or in some other way screw up.
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What's a HATR?

Edit - Google first, Chucky! Google first! HATR = "Hazardous Air Traffic Report"
 
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If I screwed up and got intercepted I wouldn't hold anything against the airforce pilots. I might hold something against myself and the silly politicians and bureaucrats who came up with the system.
 
jesse said:
If I screwed up and got intercepted I wouldn't hold anything against the airforce pilots. I might hold something against myself and the silly politicians and bureaucrats who came up with the system.
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Bingo.
 
jesse said:
If I screwed up and got intercepted I wouldn't hold anything against the airforce pilots. I might hold something against myself and the silly politicians and bureaucrats who came up with the system.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Bingo.
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+1

I was just talking with a co-worker about this yesterday. I made it clear in no uncertain terms what I thought about the TFR (NSFW), but also that the pilot screwed up and will likely get a 90 day suspension of his certificate (and rightly so). The bureaucrats should be hung. No ands, ifs or buts about it.
 
Well let's say the same politicians and bureaucrats ordered some National Guard troops to go to your house and get you for: owning a gun, owning a banned book of some kind or another, not having a national ID card, having or not having, _________. Would you hold nothing against the troops either?
 
I'd blame the electorate.


150man said:
Well let's say the same politicians and bureaucrats ordered some National Guard troops to go to your house and get you for: owning a gun, owning a banned book of some kind or another, not having a national ID card, having or not having, _________. Would you hold nothing against the troops either?
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