The Straight Dope on the Vital Ketchup on a Hot Dog question

steingar said:
I feel sorry for you, since you have idiot doctors where you live who know utterly nothing about nutrition. I haven't eaten meat in a quarter century, and those who've met me can attest that starving to death is not exactly a big problem for me. Kinda the opposite, actually...
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It's funny, every one I know with an education in "nutrition", including my sister, is grossly over weight.
 
EdFred said:
Ah, but you said "or" not "and."

I don't get the difference. Meat comes from an animal. Eggs come from an animal.
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Actually, you raise a valid point. One of the reasons I try very hard not to participate in eating animal products is the degree to which we damage the environment and the cruelty to the animals involved. Egg farms are a nasty business with a thin profit margin. If I were really true to my principals I would not participate in that either. Call me unprincipled, and I will acknowledge the sentiment.

I will content myself with the knowledge than nothing died to give me that egg, nor did anything have to die to give me dairy products. Vegans do without either of these, and good for them. I could manage a Vegan diet and stay healthy, it really isn't that difficult (I'm not so stupid as some doctors). However, I choose not to for a number of reasons, chief among them that the food just isn't as good.

I think it is best summed up by something I read awhile back:

I started being a vegetarian in my youth because of the environmental issues involved and my idealistic viewpoint.

I continued in my middle age because of the health benefits of a naturally low-fat diet and the effects on my body.

Now I just do it just to pi$$ people off.
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Yay! Militant vegetarianism thread creep!
 
If I only eat meat that was already dead (roadkill, old age, etc.), will that make me a better person?
 
ebacon said:
Beware of warring granola factions!
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The previous head football coach at my old school inspired student worn t-shirts that said:

"Our coach beat anorixia"

and

"Our coach can eat your coach"
 

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hehe. That dude is hooj.

About twenty years ago I spotted a heffer wearing a shirt that read, "Inside of this body is a thin woman screaming to get out. I ate her." I was floored.
 
I used to eat but don't anymore. too fattening
 
Back to the hot-dog topic:

The Texas Tommy (split dog, filled with cheese, wrapped in bacon, deep fried). How can ketchup improve that?
 
steingar said:
Nope, I just don't eat granola. Full of butter. News flash, there are loads and loads of yummy vegetarian foods other than and not containing granola.
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I agree. And of those, pan-seared foie gras is my favorite.
 
Actually, they had "vegetarian eggs" on sale at my local Met Food store a few days ago. I pondered that for a few moments... what the heck is a "vegetarian egg?"

Finally, I asked the guy who was stocking the dairy case what a "vegetarian egg" was. Was it some sort of a transgenetic creation -- part plant, part poultry? Or was it, perhaps, an egg laid by a hen who was vegetarian (not that I've ever come across a meat-eating hen, but I suppose they're out there)? What, exactly, was a "vegetarian egg?"

Unfortunately, the answer remains a mystery because all the gentlemen replied was, "No hablo Inglés señor."

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Actually, they had "vegetarian eggs" on sale at my local Met Food store a few days ago. I pondered that for a few moments... what the heck is a "vegetarian egg?"
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It's not at all uncommon for producers to feed their chickens parts from other chickens. Google "feather meal" for all the yummy details.

The store may be selling eggs from a producer that doesn't used chicken parts in their feed.
 
Trapper John said:
It's not at all uncommon for producers to feed their chickens parts from other chickens. Google "feather meal" for all the yummy details.

The store may be selling eggs from a producer that doesn't used chicken parts in their feed.
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Aw, man... sorry I asked. So much for tomorrow's omelet. :vomit:

Thanks anyway, though.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Actually, they had "vegetarian eggs" on sale at my local Met Food store a few days ago. I pondered that for a few moments... what the heck is a "vegetarian egg?"

Finally, I asked the guy who was stocking the dairy case what a "vegetarian egg" was. Was it some sort of a transgenetic creation -- part plant, part poultry? Or was it, perhaps, an egg laid by a hen who was vegetarian (not that I've ever come across a meat-eating hen, but I suppose they're out there)? What, exactly, was a "vegetarian egg?"

Unfortunately, the answer remains a mystery because all the gentlemen replied was, "No hablo Inglés señor."
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It's an egg that costs twice as much as a regular egg and is sold to idiot vegetarians, like the one here that seems to think that eating an egg kills a chicken. :frown2: (BTW, the serious answer to the question is there as well.)
 
Trapper John said:
It's not at all uncommon for producers to feed their chickens parts from other chickens. Google "feather meal" for all the yummy details.

The store may be selling eggs from a producer that doesn't used chicken parts in their feed.
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My understanding is that forced cannibalism is no longer allowed....am I wrong?
 
SkyHog said:
My understanding is that forced cannibalism is no longer allowed....am I wrong?
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Not really sure what you mean by "forced cannibalism." The use of cattle parts in cattle feed was banned a number of years ago due to BSE ("mad cow").

But about 30% of a chicken is byproduct. Gotta do something with it, so back it goes into the chain. It's not like the chickens are feeding on a dead chicken carcass - the parts are highly processed.
 
steingar said:
Actually, you raise a valid point. One of the reasons I try very hard not to participate in eating animal products is the degree to which we damage the environment and the cruelty to the animals involved. Egg farms are a nasty business with a thin profit margin. If I were really true to my principals I would not participate in that either. Call me unprincipled, and I will acknowledge the sentiment.

I will content myself with the knowledge than nothing died to give me that egg, nor did anything have to die to give me dairy products. Vegans do without either of these, and good for them. I could manage a Vegan diet and stay healthy, it really isn't that difficult (I'm not so stupid as some doctors). However, I choose not to for a number of reasons, chief among them that the food just isn't as good.

this is where i take SOME issue...
for one, after dairy cattle no longer produce, they too may often wind up in a hot dog or other beef/meat products, so technically, in a round-about way an animal did die to give us their milk...just not right away.
as for treatment of the animals, it really depends on where it came from. it is an unfortunate truth that there are producers out there who could care less, just as there are other nuts who hug/massage/practically become intimate with their cattle for years before they are taken to slaughter. i am a farmer-type, and where i worked with bovine and pigs we did not have a large group of either, and did not feed any of our animals any hormones or crazy chemistry stuff thats out there. cows are some of my personal favorite animals, both alive and next to my mashed potatoes and string beans...pigs are ok too, but are better accompanied with egg and cheese for breakfast:D.
as for ketchup, it does not come from typical garden tomatoes when it comes out of a big-company name (heinz/frenches/etc). if you were to slice up one of those tomatoes for your salad, you would be eating one which was genetically engineered to have a tougher skin so the berry can stand up to mechanical cultivation. there are so many strains of tomato itd make everyones head spin, and most are genetically engineered for various reasons, but if you dont want to support GE, grow your own heirloom plants. same goes for virtually every fruit or vegitable available.
im sure theres research that can support both sides of the issue, and i say to each their own, but i dont buy into raising stock for food demands being a damaging effect on the environment...
(pass the tenderloin please:rolleyes2:)
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SkyHog said:
Is it wrong to want to punch a cow some day?
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Rocky did it.

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flyingcheesehead said:
It's an egg that costs twice as much as a regular egg and is sold to idiot vegetarians, like the one here that seems to think that eating an egg kills a chicken. :frown2: (BTW, the serious answer to the question is there as well.)
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I can't believe people have thoughts to waste on such nonsense.

When I was in college, I attended some meeting or another in the Student Union building. I attended mainly because I'd found out that pizza and beer would be served afterwards, the drinking age still being 18 back then. (Scott, the pizza was Long Island pizza -- not quite as good as Brooklyn pizza, which is the pinnacle of perfection of pizza itself; but it certainly wasn't bad pizza, either.)

The after-meeting conversation was dominated by a rather attractive co-ed named Mindy, who was in some of my classes, and who I'd been thinking about approaching on a, um, romantic level. Until that night, anyway.

That's because Mindy had started screaming, non-stop and with the shrillness of a banshee keening for the dead, about the fact that most of the pizzas had meat on them.

There were also plain cheese pizzas, but Mindy, it turns out, was one of those who wasn't content to follow her own conscience. She insisted that everyone else follow her conscience, as well. She also ran around the room opening every window (it was the middle of winter) to let the "smell of death" out of the room.

After a while, the conversation monologue shifted to the use of laboratory animals for medical testing, which of course she also railed against. I said nothing, having no particular position on the issue, and frankly wishing that she would shut up so I could get a decent buzz going. Listening to someone talking about vivisection and Draize testing are not conducive to a good buzz, especially while eating pizza topped with pepperoni and sausage.

But it got worse. Mindy shifted gears again, this time railing against people who opposed abortion. How dare anyone intrude on a woman's right to choose, she nearly screamed at all of us. Not that any of us had said anything about abortion one way or the other, mind you. Most of us were just there for the beer, and we seriously wished that Mindy would just shut up.

From abortion she segued into fetal tissue research, and how those who opposed it were essentially murdering people whose diseases might be cured through it. That section of her diatribe probably went on for another ten minutes or so, although it seemed an eternity.

Finally, the long-awaited moment came, and Mindy finally stopped talking and stuffed a piece of now-cold, meat-free pizza into her mouth.

Not being one to leave well-enough alone, and having remained silent for the duration of her entire monologue, I decided to ask her a question.

"Mindy," I asked, "What's your ethical position regarding performing fetal tissue research using rat fetuses?"

Mindy looked at me, then turned red in her face and eyes, and then threw her now-cold, meat-free pizza at me as she got up and stormed out the door. The pizza bounced off my chest and landed right on my plate, smack in the middle of a nice puddle of peperoni oil.

Hey, waste not, want not. I ate it.

The rest of the people in the room started roaring with laughter, and we passed the hat and sent out for more pizza and beer.

Mindy, however, never spoke to me again.

-Rich
 
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steingar said:
Nope, I just don't eat granola. Full of butter. News flash, there are loads and loads of yummy vegetarian foods other than and not containing granola.
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Lived with a vegetarian for 2 years, never did discover a truly yummy vegetarian dish, but a little bacon went a long way to making them edible.
 
RJM62 said:
Actually, they had "vegetarian eggs" on sale at my local Met Food store a few days ago. I pondered that for a few moments... what the heck is a "vegetarian egg?"

Finally, I asked the guy who was stocking the dairy case what a "vegetarian egg" was. Was it some sort of a transgenetic creation -- part plant, part poultry? Or was it, perhaps, an egg laid by a hen who was vegetarian (not that I've ever come across a meat-eating hen, but I suppose they're out there)? What, exactly, was a "vegetarian egg?"

Unfortunately, the answer remains a mystery because all the gentlemen replied was, "No hablo Inglés señor."

-Rich
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Correct, fed a vegetarian diet. Lots of commercial feed contains fish meal.
 
RJM62 said:
"Mindy," I asked, "What's your ethical position regarding performing fetal tissue research using rat fetuses?"

The rest of the people in the room started roaring with laughter, and we passed the hat and sent out for more pizza and beer.

Mindy, however, never spoke to me again.
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:rofl: Good move, sir! :D

It's always fun throwing someone else's twisted logic right back at them.
 
Henning said:
Lived with a vegetarian for 2 years, never did discover a truly yummy vegetarian dish, but a little bacon went a long way to making them edible.
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You lived with a bad cook. At Steinholme we eat good food.
 
airbornejohnny said:
this is where i take SOME issue...
for one, after dairy cattle no longer produce, they too may often wind up in a hot dog or other beef/meat products, so technically, in a round-about way an animal did die to give us their milk...just not right away.
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Perhaps, but sacrificing its life was not an obligatory event to get me my cheese.

airbornejohnny said:
as for treatment of the animals, it really depends on where it came from. it is an unfortunate truth that there are producers out there who could care less, just as there are other nuts who hug/massage/practically become intimate with their cattle for years before they are taken to slaughter. i am a farmer-type, and where i worked with bovine and pigs we did not have a large group of either, and did not feed any of our animals any hormones or crazy chemistry stuff thats out there. cows are some of my personal favorite animals, both alive and next to my mashed potatoes and string beans...pigs are ok too, but are better accompanied with egg and cheese for breakfast:D.
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No doubt you are the Dali llama of the agricultural world, and we all thank you for your scruples. But there are those out there to whom the bottom line is far more important than the health and well-being of a bunch of animals

airbornejohnny said:
tas for ketchup, it does not come from typical garden tomatoes when it comes out of a big-company name (heinz/frenches/etc). if you were to slice up one of those tomatoes for your salad, you would be eating one which was genetically engineered to have a tougher skin so the berry can stand up to mechanical cultivation. there are so many strains of tomato itd make everyones head spin, and most are genetically engineered for various reasons, but if you dont want to support GE, grow your own heirloom plants. same goes for virtually every fruit or vegitable available.
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I could easily outline all the ways commercial livestock production damages the environment, but that really isn't my bent. I honestly don't care if you want to eat dead animal flesh. Enjoy. I was just bored with all the ketchup on hotdog threads.

airbornejohnny said:
im sure theres research that can support both sides of the issue, and i say to each their own, but i dont buy into raising stock for food demands being a damaging effect on the environment...
(pass the tenderloin please:rolleyes2:)
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I doubt you could identify a plant or animal in common agricultural use that was not modified from its wild-type form through selective breeding, hybridization, or genetic engineering (the thick skin you mention is a trait selected by breeding. Slow ripening is a genetically engineered trait). Wild tomatoes bear little resemblance to what we cultivate, being small and yellow. People originally thought them poisonous.
 
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steingar said:
Yeah, and you saw how that turned out. Better watch it.
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Hilter was a vegetarian too.

If he'd have only eaten meat, and put ketchup on his hot dogs....who knows what would have happened.
 
I doubt you could identify a plant or animal in common agricultural use that was not modified from its wild-type form through selective breeding, hybridization, or genetic engineering (the thick skin you mention is a trait selected by breeding. Slow ripening is a genetically engineered trait). Wild tomatoes bear little resemblance to what we cultivate, being small and yellow. People originally thought them poisonous.

thank you for repeating my point in fewer words. there is virtually no food product readily available which has not been altered in some way over the course of thousands of years of evolution and the brain power of human beings (corn also used to be much smaller for example).
i am in no way the Dali Llama of anything; i am a student of many trades and a master of none.
it is hard for me to understand why animals raised for food are such a waste to some people when thousands of lovable dogs and cats are euthanized every day (and im sure this is only the tip of the iceberg).
again, to each their own. if limiting your pallet to within certain guidelines is how you prefer to manage your diet, so be it. this is America after all.
 
airbornejohnny said:
it is hard for me to understand why animals raised for food are such a waste to some people when thousands of lovable dogs and cats are euthanized every day (and im sure this is only the tip of the iceberg).
again, to each their own. if limiting your pallet to within certain guidelines is how you prefer to manage your diet, so be it. this is America after all.
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Yup. I don't like doggies and cats euthanized, but there is little I can do about it (other than controlling my own dogs, which I do) unless I do a Ted, and I am not quite up for that. I can do something about the agricultural issues as they relate to livestock, and that is to not participate.

However, far more salient to me is keeping my waistline to a minimum to ward off some of the cardiovascular issues that plague my family.
 
In the cafeteria today they are serving chili dogs in observance of Tiger baseball opening day. Mustard is the only condiment offered. No ketchup.

I got some mustard on my finger and look forward to doing the after-mustard Hilter finger sniff.
 
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