The new plane

Very, very nice! Love the new panel & the Sandel. Now, do your operating costs double? Oops, I forgot ... we don't talk about such things. ;)

Have twice the fun!
 
Definitely a nice set up! I'll have to get my multi rating one day. What made you decide on the 58P? (Other than its cool...) :)
 
Thanks guys.

It is expensive to insure, hanger and run.

Most of my trips are long, cross country and involve dealing with weather. I've wanted K-ice for sometime. Flying over mountains and water. Heading out over the Gulf for three hours in July.

The A-36 was turbo which allowed getting on top of a lot of weather; however, family and pets didn't like nose tubes for hours.

The airconditioner is a real help in the Dallas area.


The choice was to upgrade the A-36 or purchase another plane with the systems on there. Would have spent almost as much on the A-36 to get it where I wanted it as this plane has on it.

Best,

Dave
 
Preeeeeettttyyyyyy....

*Chuck slobbers on the panel...*
 
Very nice Dave. You're gonna love it (provided you don't look too close to the fuel bills for a while).
 
Awesome Dave!

I always thought I'd like to fly with a Sandel -- seems like a good way to help minimize your scan by having HSI and navaids/map all in one spot.
 
Dave,

That's great! What a beautiful twin. Good luck with everything. Swing it on up to Denver sometime! :)
 
Thanks guys. Looking forward to seeing how the pre-buy goes and how it performs. We did a test flight and climbed up to 14,500; cabin was showing 5,400. AC was really nice since it was 88 outside. Not like a car but cooler than outside air.

Was trueing out at 21o to 215 knots at a reduced power setting.

Was able to fly LOP at just over 14 gph per engine and true 195.

Starting ground draining to become insurance legal this weekend.

The traffic from the Garmin 330 was nice. Looking forward to getting to know how to use this radar unit. Hoping to be signed off in time to bring it to Gaston's.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Was trueing out at 21o to 215 knots at a reduced power setting.
Dave
Click to expand...

WOW! I would be keeping up with you...AT FULL POWER!!

It's expensive to have washed, get oil changed, park, overnight-hangar at Signature, and land at some airports too. But worth every penny. Welcome to the twin club! You're gonna love it!!!!
 
Geesh Bruce that i'd be a little over a year at $300 per hour!!

Oh, did you mean flight hours??
Long time Bruce. I'm just a lowly 2,000 hour guy. Flew then stopped several times. Don't have all the military time accounted for but it wasn't a lot.
Flattered that you considered me in that league. Been flyin a lot the last couple years, but big break before that and, unfortunately, my primary business doesn't involve bein on the flight line.

Looking forward to seeing you and your lovely wife in Arkansas!!

Dave
 
Dave that aircraft looks like new! Normally people go through an upgrade frenzy after they buy a "new" aircraft but yours looks like it has everything on it already. Good luck with you new toy.
 
drhunt said:
Very, very nice! Love the new panel & the Sandel. Now, do your operating costs double? Oops, I forgot ... we don't talk about such things. ;)

Have twice the fun!
Click to expand...

If only... The cost goes up like drag, by the cube.
 
Henning said:
If only... The cost goes up like drag, by the cube.
Click to expand...

Yeah; but with that time machine...a careful businessman can make more than it costs!

I propose a toast! :drink: To dreams that come true...and the best type of dreams that come true...those that help you to realize even more! Good and safe flying, Dave, have fun and make it pay for itself. There ain't nothing better. :D
 
Yes Henning!

We're plan'in on 'bout three times what it cost to run the A-36TN.

Dave
 
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Robert:

Wow!! What a toast. Has special meaning as I've put a lot into building a business and it's finally allowing me to do some things I always dreamed of.

May I toast back: from one guy that's made dreams come true to others that share that dream!! :cheerswine: :cheerswine:

Best,

Dave
 
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RobertGerace said:
Yeah; but with that time machine...a careful businessman can make more than it costs!
Click to expand...


For the life of me, I wish I could figure out how.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Robert:

Wow!! What a toast. Has special meaning as I've put a lot into building a business and it's finally allowing me to do some things I always dreamed of.

May I toast back: from one guy that's made dreams come true to others that share that dream!! :cheerswine: :cheerswine:

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
larrysb said:
For the life of me, I wish I could figure out how.
Click to expand...

Larry,

It is kind of a long story; but basically...

You can't start out buying an expensive airplane and try to make it pay for itself. (I mean you can, and people do, but it is a very tough row to hoe.) Trying to go 135 or some other commercial operation is near impossible, and my hat is off to anyone who makes it work.

For those without a bazillion hours and bazillion dollars, the only other way is to use the airplane in some sort of business -- not where the airplane itself is the business; but where the airplane accelerates the business.

Let's take a very real world example (using fictional people, places, and business ventures.)

Let us say there is a business person who does nothing but close sales for his company. He has a team of people who go around and get people interested, and maybe even do an initial meeting. Then our example businessman slides in and closes the sale. As this happens more and more, soon the businessman can hire several people to generate leads. Before he knows it, he doesn't have time to close all the sales. He tries to get his sales team to close the sales, but they just don't have the 'magic' that this man has from his years of experience. So he starts to lose money.

Let's say that he loses a sale a month, and the average profit on a sale is $20,000. Hmmmm...if he could find an airplane that only costs $10,000 per month, he is $10,000 a month ahead...because being able to go on HIS schedule...to an airport close to the meeting...and maybe even another meeting in another city the same day...and this is something the airlines just can't deliver.

This is exactly how it is done.

As another example:

Let's say we have a real estate investor. No matter how much a property appreciates, obviously, the less you pay for it, the more you make when you sell it. (And if you are holding it and renting out units, the less you pay for it, the more positive your cash flow, the higher your IRR, etc.).

Let's say that our investor likes to invest in waterfront property -- one of the current booms, and he wants to limit himself to the area from Virginia Beach to Houston -- with a strong focus on the Hilton Head to Destin subset of that coast line.

The way that he finds property as low as possible (which is pretty hard to do by any means) is to look at a lot of properties. Basically, he has to see a lot of properties and make a lot of offers (which are rejected...until the right mix of things happen that allow him to buy it more cheaply.) He has a day job -- (the guy above who closes sales). He really doesn't have time to be flying all over the south east looking at property.

BUT WAIT!!! He owns an airplane. He can combine some of these trips and simply hop from a sales meeting to a property...and home to sleep next to his wife that night!!

Playing the real estate game at this level, he may be buying properties that are anywhere from $300,000 per UNIT and up. A small, 10 unit condo would be $3,000,000.

If having the airplane allowed him to look on the Internet, find properties that appear to be selling for less than they are worth, go look at them to make sure there isn't a 3-mile-island right next door, and find one cheaper...one deal could result in enough savings to buy and fly the airplane for a year!

Of course, deals don't come easily. It might take 3 years to find one where you could save or make $300,000. But they are out there...and the same goes for the sales thing above. Maybe no more sales are made for the first 8 months, but then a $160,000 home run pays for it all.

Notice that both examples work because they stretch the time of the person who makes the money.

At some point, you reach a point, where the only thing limiting you is your time. And an airplane is a time machine. It gives you more -- which results in more money. It's not simple, and you better be able to ride out the months where there is more going out than in...but if you're careful, eventually, having more time will result in more money at the end of the year WITH the airplane, than you would have had WITHOUT the airplane.
 
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Dave Siciliano said:
Geesh Bruce that i'd be a little over a year at $300 per hour!!

Looking forward to seeing you and your lovely wife in Arkansas!!

Dave
Click to expand...
Dave, I meant 10,000 cabin compression hours. The B58P has a hull life of 10,000 hours.

Looking forward to June 25.... Bruce
 
RobertGerace said:
Larry,

It is kind of a long story; but basically...

but if you're careful, eventually, having more time will result in more money at the end of the year WITH the airplane, than you would have had WITHOUT the airplane.
Click to expand...

Nice theory. ;)

I hear what you are saying about time - more than once in my career, I've hit the wall and said, "I'm simply out of time - there is no more that I can do with my own two hands."

I guess it works better for traveling deal makers, not so much for R&D technical people like me. Just the opposite, they usually beg me not to go anywhere, ever, pretty please with stock options on top.
 
larrysb said:
Nice theory. ;)

I guess it works better for traveling deal makers, not so much for R&D technical people like me. Just the opposite, they usually beg me not to go anywhere, ever, pretty please with stock options on top.
Click to expand...

I agree with both Larry and Bob.

As an R&D-type engineer who is mostly chained to my desk/lab bench, I can't possibly imagine having a job where so much moving around is required. But I know they're out there.

When I researched buying a plane, the GA Serving America website had several case studies like Bob mentioned - basically turning planes into "time machines." Interestingly enough, the smallest piston example I could find was an attorney who bought a Baron. No singles. IIRC, he lived in Eastern KS and as his reputation grew, potential clients in western KS wanted him -- a 6 hour drive away! Enter the plane... Of course, lawyers bill what? $250/hr?

The higher up case studies all involved turboprops and jets, and guys like the head of a school of biotech at a college who "time warped" every day to lobby in Washington DC. Big shots :rolleyes:

In the end, I decided it's really just a hobby for me, and seeing how I have no other expensive vices, went for it because I love to fly!:cheerswine:


-Rich
 
Rich,

Yes, a known-ice, turbocharged-twin is the minimum price of admission. If it can't go in most weather, it costs you more time than it gives you. This unfortunately raises the bar of where it starts to pay for itself so high that to get there, the person travelling usually has to spend years flying commercially; and flying commercially so much that he basically spends 40 hours per week in airports and on commercial jets.

Larry,

Oh, they are out there all right. I just met a man who is the National Sales Manager for a large medical company. He has six of these 'closers' working for him. They are on the road 80 to 100 hours per week...and they make over $250,000 per year -- and the company foots the bill for travel (i.e. expenses are paid above the quarter-mil.)

Of course, the manager travels constantly too. He gets a piece of the action from the other six. He and his wife drive Hummers and live on a $5,000,000 piece of property.

Want to make a lot of money? Want to travel? Go in to sales. ;)

Just make sure it is the right kind of sales (business-to-business)...the guy behind the movie counter gets neither money nor travel. :(
 
bbchien said:
Dave, I meant 10,000 cabin compression hours. The B58P has a hull life of 10,000 hours.

Looking forward to June 25.... Bruce
Click to expand...

Sorry Bruce:

This is a 2500 hour plane. That was a major consideration.

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Yes Henning!

We're plan'in on 'bout three times what it cost to run the A-36TN.

Dave
Click to expand...

Then you're in good shape, good luck with it, it sure does have a bunch of nice toys:cheerswine:
 
rpadula said:
I agree with both Larry and Bob.

As an R&D-type engineer who is mostly chained to my desk/lab bench, I can't possibly imagine having a job where so much moving around is required. But I know they're out there.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm pretty much an R&D type myself, but I have managed to use an airplane in my business. For almost 15 years I ran a small (3 engineers) electronic design consulting service with clients scattered around 4 states and the airplane was a valuable tool for meeting with the clients. For the last 10 years I've been employed by one of those clients full time (all three of us were at one point) and I still get occasional opportunities to use the plane for business. Unfortunately a large majority of our customers are overseas and thus a bit beyond the practical range of any airplane I can afford.

The three most typical reasons for getting out to customers are:

VOC (Voice of the Customer) work in the early phases of a product development.

Monitoring Beta test (field trials).

Investigating the occasional problem that cannot be duplicated at the home office.
 
lancefisher said:
Well, I'm pretty much an R&D type myself, but I have managed to use an airplane in my business. For almost 15 years I ran a small (3 engineers) electronic design consulting service with clients scattered around 4 states and the airplane was a valuable tool for meeting with the clients. For the last 10 years I've been employed by one of those clients full time (all three of us were at one point) and I still get occasional opportunities to use the plane for business. Unfortunately a large majority of our customers are overseas and thus a bit beyond the practical range of any airplane I can afford.

The three most typical reasons for getting out to customers are:

VOC (Voice of the Customer) work in the early phases of a product development.

Monitoring Beta test (field trials).

Investigating the occasional problem that cannot be duplicated at the home office.
Click to expand...

Lance,

EXACTLY! And if you wanted to expand your business, about the only way to work full time for one client and take on another (if that client happened to be 250nm or so away) would be a small airplane!

In the end all that matters is:

Before the airplane I could make X
The airplane costs Y
After the airplane I make Z which is > X + Y

And, of course, the higher X is the less important getting to Z quickly is. When you get to Z, however, it is a very, very cool thing.

Dave and I are celebrating the journey to Z in this thread. I don't think the journey ever ends...at least I don't want it to. To say I've arrived would be sad. I guess, to me, the excitment is to find ways to make Z get larger and larger...while making sure that the only way that happens is to make Y get larger and larger.

Personally, I don't see any other way to finally, some day, own and fly a jet...which is my next big goal. Certainly nobody is going to give me one...and I'll certainly never be able to afford one personally (even if I could make that much money I wouldn't want to pay personal tax on that much.)

For me, at least, flying just didn't make sense as a good use of funds prior to offsetting some, then later almost all, of the cost with business.

There are probably thousands of ways to offset some or all of the expense of aviation by starting or buying a business...my task...is to figure them out.

My Dad would sum it up like this: "A guy at the airport resturant sees a CJ taxi by and thinks to himself...there but for me goes I."
 
RobertGerace said:
Lance,

In the end all that matters is:

Before the airplane I could make X
The airplane costs Y
After the airplane I make Z which is > X + Y

And, of course, the higher X is the less important getting to Z quickly is. When you get to Z, however, it is a very, very cool thing.

Dave and I are celebrating the journey to Z in this thread. I don't think the journey ever ends...at least I don't want it to. To say I've arrived would be sad. I guess, to me, the excitment is to find ways to make Z get larger and larger...while making sure that the only way that happens is to make Y get larger and larger.
Click to expand...

Here's to Z!:cheers: And may your Z expand by the fouth power as your costs cube.
 
Bob:

I just can't help but to chuckle at your explainations!! They are very spontaneous, heartfelt and a lot of fun to hear. Yes, I can and do use my plane to look at the design of other subdivisions, investment opportunities and to meet with potential investors. My business is local; I could put my head in the ground and not look around, but creative landplanning, entry features and real estate opportunities are very interesting to me. I can also attend educational/professional seminars, but if I didn't like to fly, I could probably limp by without attending them.

Glad you're on the way to a jet. We flew the B-55 to Austin from Dallas and heard a Lear depart behind us. It passed us enroute and we wound up at the same FBO. The pilot was getting his fuel bill as we left: 'bout a gallon per mile--235. Our fuel was about 50 gallons. figured out at his airspeed --and of course short trip aren't real efficient in a Lear--it was a few gallons or more per minute. So, I envisioned myself in the back with an open container of Jet A and a one gallon bucket tossing fuel into the engines to keep them burning much like the old coal tenders fed steam engines. I'd have to bail fuel out and toss it into an open door to the engines as fast as I could to keep up.
At that time, I decided I didn't need a Lear.

Best,

Dave
 
RobertGerace said:
Dave and I are celebrating the journey to Z in this thread.
Click to expand...

I agree with Henning. You've got your new sig line right there: "Celebrating the journey to Z!"

:cheerswine:
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Sorry Bruce:

This is a 2500 hour plane. That was a major consideration.

Dave
Click to expand...
That's GOOD! How ever did you find one so YOUNG! Here's to "Z"!
 
Thanks Bruce:

Did a lot of digging. So far everything is checking out pretty well but CHT temps in a climb. This could be a deal killer.

Lovely interior, a/c is weaker than it should be, low time, great avionics, but in my current A-36, CHT temps limit me and I'm concerned about getting into another bird that may look great, but isn't hitting book numbers. Couldn't do a Vy climb in this bird. Had to go to a cruise climb to keep CHTs reasonable.

We'll do a test flight. Probably take it up to its service ceiling of FL250 and see if it will make book speed. See how it climbs; check cabin pressure at that level. Do the ground speed in three directions to check airspeed indicator for accuracy.

Lots to do!!

Best,

Dave
 
Described my test flight to Tom Turner at ABS who is the technical advisor and have quite a bit of P and TC Baron time. In general, he said what I described was very typical of P-Baron performance. Some comments follow:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Takeoff at 2700 rpm; 39" of MP and 34 gph per side. Tom said this is right on target.
After 500 feet (under two minutes) 2400 rpm, 30 gph and 33" of MP with 140 knots airspeed yielded ; 700 fpm; good news is it will hold that all the way to 18,000 foot DA. Typical P performance. Beyond turbonormalized 550 and 520; 380 CHTs aren't as critical. He also found above FL15,000 ½ cowl flaps helped cooling . He suggests performing a climb all the way up to FL250. Explained that delivery of air into the cabin is off the same deck as the turbos and it's good to check it.
Lean of peak at 14 gallons per side; 2300 rpm LOP; got 190 knots. This seemed normal. He used to get 14.5 LOP on his plane but it wouldn’t run smoothly after a short period (under ten minutes). 520s; turbo doesn’t have symmetrically induction. Air has to go around the turbo. All mathematics; change because of air flow. Would run smoothly, then stumble significantly. He ran planes at 75 ROP and up to 410 CHTs and five sets of engines made TBO, but he was flying several times a week for business.

So, the performance we experienced seems to be right on the norm.

Best,


Dave
 
Mechanic dug into the engines today. They have been very well cared for. Clean, no leaks, everything tie wraped to with RTV on it. Compressions all in the mid 70s, one was low at 74 on a cold compression check. Oil analysis done on a regular basis.
I'm going through the logs tonight. Very well maintained. Think this may be the machine I've been wanting for some time.

Dave
 
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