The most important reason to fly a twin?

Over how many hours? PT6s? TPEs?

I can't imagine the probability of having two different turbines chit the bed on two different occasions.


You've got to be kidding. The whole point of this discussion is that when a twin brings you back home on one.........nobody cares. The FAA or NTSB doesn't come out and put you on some list. There is no list.

Turbine engines, mine were PT6-41, quit with regularity. The MTBF stats you see quoted are just meaningless garbage from the manufacturers.
 
Over how many hours? PT6s? TPEs?

I can't imagine the probability of having two different turbines chit the bed on two different occasions.

One friend of mine has had 6 PT6s fail on him. I deal with turbine engine failures almost daily.

I have an acquaintance that had a PT6 crap out on him in a C208, at night. :eek:

I had a PT6-20 give up on me in a BE-99 at night. No big deal, it happened in cruise and I landed.
 
I have an acquaintance that had a PT6 crap out on him in a C208, at night. :eek:

That's a bad night.

My friend had it in King Airs and Twin Otters. No big deal.
 
What the reports aren't full of is what usually happens: an uneventful single engine landing.

Yep. I've had one. Practicing feathering one, then couldn't get it to restart in the air. Suddenly it became a real OEI landing. No emergency. No fanfare. Just a safe landing and taxi back to the hangar. Started up just fine on the ground.
 
Depends on what you're comparing. I'd take a Cirrus with a 'chute over a twin that can't perform for squat in single-engine operations any day. Not all twins are created equal.
 
Depends on what you're comparing. I'd take a Cirrus with a 'chute over a twin that can't perform for squat in single-engine operations any day. Not all twins are created equal.

And having read this statement, I am positive that you have never flown one of these "twins that can't peform for squat". I have, and just shot a single engine approach in one on Wednesday, 200lbs under gross and it flew just fine. I could climb at 200ft a minute, and my single engine approach was a "non issue".

Fly your cirrus and enjoy the insurance claim after you deploy the chute, that's fine. It's a great airplane. I'll keep my "marginal" twin and land at the airport of my choosing, uneventfully, and gladly pay the repair bill.
 
Over how many hours? PT6s? TPEs?

I can't imagine the probability of having two different turbines chit the bed on two different occasions.

Probability and statistics aren't something I've ever been able to comprehend, either, but I used to average an engine failure or shutdown every 1200 hours until my luck changed, and they included a PT6, a TFE-731, and a JT15D.

As to the OP, I'd say my engine failures in singles were far more sporty than the ones in twins.
 
Probability and statistics aren't something I've ever been able to comprehend, either, but I used to average an engine failure or shutdown every 1200 hours until my luck changed, and they included a PT6, a TFE-731, and a JT15D.

As to the OP, I'd say my engine failures in singles were far more sporty than the ones in twins.

Not sure what equipment you're flying, but I might look for a new operator if you have turbines crapping the bed in you that often.
 
:lol: It's kinda moot to me, I won't ever afford a SR-22 I want (<10 years old perspective) so I'll be stuck with twins. Next up if I do another MEL traveling twin will be an Aerostar, though I'd probably buy the plane in my avatar first.

I think there is one for sale cheap. Only needs props and some belly skin.
 
I think there is one for sale cheap. Only needs props and some belly skin.

That one looks like a good deal. I hear it doesn't need props, it has Q-tips.
 
Oh my gosh!!!!! I am learning so much here! I had no idea turbines were so dangerous. Quick, someone contact FedEx and tell them they've made a serious error with all those caravans! They need to transition to much safer/more reliable ancient piston twins! And the insurance companies! Everyone is wrong! The stats are all false!

I'm going to go out IMMEDIATELY and transition to twins myself!

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"Unreported non-event engine failures on a twin" does not categorically change the reported risk profile of a twin vs. single, based on flight hours. You are merely describing an aspect that explains why twins have a different distribution of accident types as compared to a single. There is simply no way to totally understand the risk profile of a twin vs. single without having some understanding of basic data analysis. To explain the differences, you need to look at the breakdown (distribution) of accidents per type, and you'd probably need to control for pilot skill as a lurking explanatory variable.

The Avweb link posted earlier gives us a starting point:

"[in a twin] a variety of other non-weather-related causes are quite significant: botched takeoffs and landings, controlled flight into terrain, improper IFR procedures, fuel exhaustion, and gear-up landings, just to name a few."

"A single is about two-and-a-half times more likely to have an accident due to engine/prop failure than a twin (8% versus 3%)"

"[in a twin] your risk profile changes somewhat... you're less likely to be hurt by an engine failure, and more likely to be victimized by something else."

Seems pretty straightforward: given the current population of pilots and planes, twins are more likely to survive a single engine-out, but twins are also just generally more complicated planes and that complication increases the accident rate. Now if twins also have elevated rates of flight into terrain and IFR mishap, those categories seem to be pilot error that is mostly independent of the equipment, suggesting that twins tend to be flown by pilots that are engaging in flights that require higher proficiency and have a larger risk profile.

So really, we can't get to the complete bottom of this unless we look even deeper at additional data: we need to have training,flight hours, and perhaps some sort of measure of specific pilot expertise for the activity he/she was performing at time of accident. We also need a numerical measure that semi-objectively classifies plane complexity. By regressing on each of these lurking variables, we could then generate a more objective predictor of risk for a given pilot/plane combination. Find the data for me and I'll do it! :lol: Without the data, I think you can only say the following:

singles are probably being flown more conservatively than twins (biases overall safety towards singles)
twins are probably being flown with pilots with greater expertise (bias: twins)
twins have more complicated equipment (bias: singles)
twins are being flown on more difficult missions (bias: singles)
twins have a lesser risk of accident from engine failure (bias: twin)

If you are an expert pilot that flies conservatively in good conditions, you are probably safer in a twin. If you are a ****ty pilot that likes to push it, you are probably safer in a single.
 
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