THC positive from ER visit but never smoked.

Half Fast said:
Remember that as far as the Federal Aviation Administration is concerned, marijuana is illegal everywhere in the country, since it is still prohibited under federal law.
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Hemp is not. And Hemp-derived CBD and THC are not. Not since the 2018 Farm Bill. The product the OP used is likely legal.
 
Lindberg said:
Hemp is not. And Hemp-derived CBD and THC are not. Not since the 2018 Farm Bill. The product the OP used is likely legal.
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Yeah the CBD I took is considered federally legal. I just doubt the FAA will care though which is unfortunate.
 
Lindberg said:
That's beside the point of the moral judgment being presented here, including by some who appear unaware of relevant facts.
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Not sure how you're defining morality. If you're using it in the sense of self rightous judgement, well, both camps are self rightous, aren't they? Everyone does what's right in their own eyes. You and I are both guilty of this.

I am trying not to make any moral judgement. I have a strong libertarian streak and feel that folks should be allowed as much freedom as possible. Just pointing out that the FAA has a vested interest in making sure pilots are safe to fly. The system is imperfect. Your freedom to fly has to be limited when your urine tests positive for THC or any other substance that can affect cognition.

What alternative would you propose?
 
Lindberg said:
That's beside the point of the moral judgment being presented here, including by some who appear unaware of relevant facts.
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No moral judgement at all. I'm a libertarian at heart, and I have no problem with people wanting to use recreational pharmaceuticals. I also think that people who use those drugs have no business sitting in the cockpit of an airplane.

Take your pick. You can be a CBD/MJ user or a pilot, but not both.
 
Ok. You seem to have some means. Might want to consult with a lawyer/hims ame team to manage this.

Staying out of a lifetime SI for substance anything is your ultimate goal. Some sort of deferment in furtherance of an initial unrestricted medical is the ultimate goal. Their “program” is seriously flawed, avoid as much of it as possible.

At this point it is an administrative battle, plain and simple.

You want a GOOD ame, but there are ZERO metrics to help you. An ame screwing up ANYTHING (no matter the harm it causes you) is not reconcilable.

What the faa says, vs their rules, vs what they do is random from an airman point of view. And the faa will hold YOU responsible for compliance with their unpublished techniques.

I paint a poor picture of them and what they do, they’ve earned it. But you gotta deal with it. Find an UNBIASED team. Hedge the bet, and good luck!
 
Half Fast said:
Remember that as far as the Federal Aviation Administration is concerned, marijuana is illegal everywhere in the country, since it is still prohibited under federal law.
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If the Federal Government legalizes marijuana would its use move to what Alcohol use is? 8 hours abstinence before flying?
 
bonefishpete said:
If the Federal Government legalizes marijuana would its use move to what Alcohol use is? 8 hours abstinence before flying?
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It's doubtful.

As I noted above there is scientific data noting lingering cognitive issues for up 4 weeks after usage, and perhaps longer. Whether or not a substance is legal for personal use and whether the FAA thinks you are safe to fly with it aren't directly related. Everyone likes to compare alcohol with pot but they are not at all the same in their pharmacokinetics and metabolism.

I suspect the FAA is in no hurry to change the rules to allow make it easier for pilots to have THC in their system and fly. Lots of drugs are legal, but are not ok for pilots to use. For the forseeable future, THC is one of them.

There would have to be clear study data saying what interval was safe and, well, there isn't a lot of research in that direction so additional medical data to clarify this isn't coming soon and or is very slow. There may be a political movement to allow "medicinal marijuana," and looser rules in general, decriminalizing it to a large extent.

But I doubt there is much political desire or public interest in having more pilots hit the bong.
 
bonefishpete said:
If the Federal Government legalizes marijuana would its use move to what Alcohol use is? 8 hours abstinence before flying?
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I could see something like that happening. However, it's not legalized yet and given the speed the FAA tends to move at with these things I wouldn't expect anything to happen for a long long time. The biggest hurdle I think will be figuring out an effective way to detect whether or not someone is intoxicated and come up with reasonable guidelines.

Kind of interesting to see the generational divide in how it's viewed. Most people of around my generation and younger seem to look at it more like alcohol- something you can indulge in safely in moderation. Older generations seem to look at more like a 'hard' drug. As far as regulation goes, for me it comes down the same issue that decided the end of alcohol prohibition. Ultimately I think the societal costs around enforcing a ban are worse than the damage done by/to people who over-indulge.
 
cowman said:
I could see something like that happening. However, it's not legalized yet and given the speed the FAA tends to move at with these things I wouldn't expect anything to happen for a long long time. The biggest hurdle I think will be figuring out an effective way to detect whether or not someone is intoxicated and come up with reasonable guidelines.

Kind of interesting to see the generational divide in how it's viewed. Most people of around my generation and younger seem to look at it more like alcohol- something you can indulge in safely in moderation. Older generations seem to look at more like a 'hard' drug. As far as regulation goes, for me it comes down the same issue that decided the end of alcohol prohibition. Ultimately I think the societal costs around enforcing a ban are worse than the damage done by/to people who over-indulge.
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Since it’s broad legalization there are dozens of legitimate scientific studies showing the enormous societal damage caused by marijuana. On top of its ever increasing potency. You have to ignore all those studies and data to continue to maintain that pot is essentially “harmless”. Of course a toke or two here or there by a non addict is benign but how many zombie cases to u see of people stoned all day and nite.
 
wellknow said:
Since it’s broad legalization there are dozens of legitimate scientific studies showing the enormous societal damage caused by marijuana. On top of its ever increasing potency. You have to ignore all those studies and data to continue to maintain that pot is essentially “harmless”. Of course a toke or two here or there by a non addict is benign but how many zombie cases to u see of people stoned all day and nite.
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I'm comparing it to alcohol, a substance that's even more widely used and is absolutely also known to have enormous societal damage. Is THC significantly worse? There are all kinds of substances I can buy legally at places like wal-mart that will impair my ability to safely fly- or for that matter even drive a car. But most of those things are completely legal for me to buy, own, and I can use without risking my medical certificate as long as I wait a set amount of time before acting as PIC.

I don't think anyone is saying toking up and then flying should be allowed but maybe we don't need to come down on someone because they 'partied' at a music festival or experemented in college.

Regardless of our opinions though the rules are what they are so for now anyone who wants to fly should probably be avoiding anything with THC in it.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I believe in being supportive of people who come here looking for advice, especially young people who made lifestyle mistakes without fully understanding the consequences.
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It seems some in this thread are far more interested in condemning the OP instead of offering guidance. Unlike many first time posters that have issues with alcohol or marijuana abuse, the OP was quite straightforward and didn't try to minimize his situation with excuses. If a person comes here and asks for help and doesn't paint the request with subterfuge and denial, responding with morality police and criticisms is unhelpful to say the least.
 
Half Fast said:
Which posts have questioned someone's morals?
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I'm not going to analyze specific posts. But some veer off into editorializing instead of addressing the OP's request for help. The trend is more apparent in some threads than others, with respondants sneering "we are special people, and you are not welcome in our club."

As I mentioned above, some first time posters show up and loudly proclaim they were just a little buzzed when arrested, and want an instant dismissal of the charges against them and a certificate awarded next week. They deserve scorn. But there have been instances of the other extreme, a person asks for guidance through the system, and some posters excoriate them for their poor decision making and demand a pound of flesh.
 
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3393RP said:
I'm not going to analyze specific posts.
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In that case, let's just stipulate that the answer is "none."

3393RP said:
But some veer off into editorializing instead of addressing the OP's request for help.
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Agreed, but that's not acting as "morality police." Your accusation is not helpful to the OP and amounts to editorializing, which you seem to dislike, and is inflammatory. I believe the discussions about FAA regs concerning THC/CBD/MJ are valid and at least germane to the topic.
 
3393RP said:
I'm not going to analyze specific posts. But some veer off into editorializing instead of addressing the OP's request for help. The trend is more apparent in some threads than others, with respondants sneering "we are special people, and you are not welcome in our club."

As I mentioned above, some first time posters show up and loudly proclaim they were just a little buzzed when arrested, and want an instant dismissal of the charges against them and a certificate awarded next week. They deserve scorn. But there have been instances of the other extreme, a person asks for guidance through the system, and some posters excoriate them for their poor decision making and demand a pound of flesh.
Click to expand...

To be clear, the OP has a very complete answer in this thread.

Contact a HIMS AME as the next step. You will need a plan of action for three areas--

1. Your positive urine THC test requiring a HIMS AME as the first step in the process.
2. Syncope x 2. Likely you need a full cardiac workup and documentation.
3. Episode of vestibular neuronitis. Even if fully resolved, needs the eval from your PCP and/or HNS as to no residual and no possibility of a misdiagnosis like Meniere's etc. You've been told that there is a path, but it will take effort and time on your part.
4. Stop the CBD with THC.

The rest of it is just a bit of back and forth about how safe is marijuana anyway? Sure, veers slightly OT. But lots of threads veer slightly OT. Are you saying the mods should close the thread now?

BTW I'm only a student pilot, beyond my solo but no one's let me into their club yet...;). I did however, take Dr. Chien's sage advice and assistance without backtalk and got my SI for a class three medical four months after submission without a hiccup.

So yeah, to the OP, consider Dr. Chein's post carefully and take all the other posts with a grain of salt.
 
Mark K said:
Are you saying the mods should close the thread now?
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A good example of some of the ridiculous stuff that goes on in this forum.

Half Fast said:
In that case, let's just stipulate that the answer is "none."



Agreed, but that's not acting as "morality police." Your accusation is not helpful to the OP and amounts to editorializing, which you seem to dislike, and is inflammatory. I believe the discussions about FAA regs concerning THC/CBD/MJ are valid and at least germane to the topic.
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That's a helpful comment.

Accusation? Nonsense. My lack of interest in identifying specifics line by line is because the comments are rather mild compared to some threads. You failed to recognize my stronger criticisms were directed at those, hence my comment "The trend is more apparent in some threads than others," and that my comment about the morality police concerned the more strident replies to these types of threads. One only has to read a few to find examples.

My rather mild generalities generated your puffed up indignance, which is quite annoying because forums always seem to be populated by the Perpetually Irate, and one cannot make generic comments without someone blowing up.
 
Hard to believe that with 66 postings so far to this thread, no one has mentioned:

(I realize the OP indicated a Class 1 Medical) If by chance the OP is not really interested in flying-for-hire... there are a couple magic phrases:
-- Sport Pilot
-- Ultralights
... that would allow them to fly a decent and growing class of aircraft (ala MOSAIC) with simply a drivers license.
 
wayneda40 said:
Hard to believe that with 66 postings so far to this thread, no one has mentioned:

(I realize the OP indicated a Class 1 Medical) If by chance the OP is not really interested in flying-for-hire... there are a couple magic phrases:
-- Sport Pilot
-- Ultralights
... that would allow them to fly a decent and growing class of aircraft (ala MOSAIC) with simply a drivers license.
Click to expand...

We also forgot to advise him to get a Bonanza.
 
Racerx said:
Back to the OP, I think I'd be more concerned about the fainting than the THC. I'm sure the feds will be interested as well.
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Yeah, that's what I assumed as well since I don't have any legal issues or medical diagnoses or recorded history of abuse regarding cannabis.

I'm confident I'll pass all the tests the FAA requires of me regarding the fainting but if I have to do extra evaluations and testing for the CBD usage I guess it is what is and something I'll have to do.
 
3393RP said:
It seems some in this thread are far more interested in condemning the OP instead of offering guidance. Unlike many first time posters that have issues with alcohol or marijuana abuse, the OP was quite straightforward and didn't try to minimize his situation with excuses. If a person comes here and asks for help and doesn't paint the request with subterfuge and denial, responding with morality police and criticisms is unhelpful to say the least.
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Yeah, I wanted to fully come forward without any excuses to honestly gauge where I am at and if it even is possible for me to obtain a first class medical. No point of trying to lie or cover anything up as that will just make everything worse.

Also to just mentally prepare myself and acknowledge the long road ahead if that is what it takes. I appreciate you though!
 
Mark K said:
To be clear, the OP has a very complete answer in this thread.

Contact a HIMS AME as the next step. You will need a plan of action for three areas--

1. Your positive urine THC test requiring a HIMS AME as the first step in the process.
2. Syncope x 2. Likely you need a full cardiac workup and documentation.
3. Episode of vestibular neuronitis. Even if fully resolved, needs the eval from your PCP and/or HNS as to no residual and no possibility of a misdiagnosis like Meniere's etc. You've been told that there is a path, but it will take effort and time on your part.
4. Stop the CBD with THC.

The rest of it is just a bit of back and forth about how safe is marijuana anyway? Sure, veers slightly OT. But lots of threads veer slightly OT. Are you saying the mods should close the thread now?

BTW I'm only a student pilot, beyond my solo but no one's let me into their club yet...;). I did however, take Dr. Chien's sage advice and assistance without backtalk and got my SI for a class three medical four months after submission without a hiccup.

So yeah, to the OP, consider Dr. Chein's post carefully and take all the other posts with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your insight and everyone else who took the time to answer my questions. I most definitely will take Dr Chien's advice.
 
He knows the process cold. If u r honest with him and behave like an adult he will do everything he can to help u.
 
Mark K said:
Not sure how you're defining morality. If you're using it in the sense of self rightous judgement, well, both camps are self rightous, aren't they? Everyone does what's right in their own eyes. You and I are both guilty of this.

I am trying not to make any moral judgement. I have a strong libertarian streak and feel that folks should be allowed as much freedom as possible. Just pointing out that the FAA has a vested interest in making sure pilots are safe to fly. The system is imperfect. Your freedom to fly has to be limited when your urine tests positive for THC or any other substance that can affect cognition.

What alternative would you propose?
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Not treating a non-pilot that took a federally legal medical supplement with trace amounts of THC for a couple months as though they have a substance abuse history several years after the fact when they decide to be a pilot.

Does that sound reasonable?
 
And therein lies the problem. That is EXACTLY what the faa does OVER AND OVER.

Treat ANYTHING as ANYTHING. Even when those THINGS aren’t even things.

THAT is the threat you face with the faa. It’s just that simple and arbitrary… and worse, they face no consequence for doing so.

All of our blather is meaningless. Trying to guess why the faa does this is meaningless, although I feel I can say with CERTAINTY it ain’t an over abundance of caution. That argument just doesn’t hold water.

Facing that kind of abuse here, well, ya asked for it. Facing it from the federal government, well, you voted for and PAID for it.

No, I don’t have an answer… yet. But be prepared for that kind of nonsense from the faa.
 
Tools said:
And therein lies the problem. That is EXACTLY what the faa does OVER AND OVER.

Treat ANYTHING as ANYTHING. Even when those THINGS aren’t even things.

THAT is the threat you face with the faa. It’s just that simple and arbitrary… and worse, they face no consequence for doing so.

All of our blather is meaningless. Trying to guess why the faa does this is meaningless, although I feel I can say with CERTAINTY it ain’t an over abundance of caution. That argument just doesn’t hold water.

Facing that kind of abuse here, well, ya asked for it. Facing it from the federal government, well, you voted for and PAID for it.

No, I don’t have an answer… yet. But be prepared for that kind of nonsense from the faa.
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Well, I would bet that if you asked 10,000 voters whether a THC user should fly airplanes over their city, the response would be about 9,995 in favor of strict policy. At some level government is still at least marginally responsive to the voting public.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Well, I would bet that if you asked 10,000 voters whether a THC user should fly airplanes over their city, the response would be about 9,995 in favor of strict policy. At some level government is still at least marginally responsive to the voting public.
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probably more than half of those voters wouldn't have any idea what THC is or why the question was being asked. :-/

Heck, you could probably substitute "dihydrogen oxide" for THC and get the same result.
 
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