Thanks & Results: Need for a CFI?

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TCABM

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Much like @denverpilot has done over the last year or so, I may now have the ability to go down the road of some advanced ratings with the intent of becoming a CFI. So, I put together a short, 10 question survey to give me some insight on when/how often pilots have a need for a CFI after they get their PPL.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C2QNZLQ

I'd appreciate it if y'all could help me better understand the general need you have for a CFI after your PPL.

I'll share the results when I'm done.

Thanks.
 
Your survey is a bit flawed since it assumes that everyone pays for the flight instruction/advanced training they seek or receive.
 
I think CFI's should pay for the privilege of riding with me - for one thing, they learn a lot. I frequently hear CFI's say that they have never seen anyone do what I do. Plus, I know that they recognize what an awesome pilot I am who doesn't need instruction because they usually say they don't need to ever fly with me again.
 
mondtster said:
Your survey is a bit flawed since it assumes that everyone pays for the flight instruction/advanced training they seek or receive.
Click to expand...

This is true and thanks for the feedback.

Honestly, I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it from a design perspective as I only had a few minutes in between projects I was on today at work.

Thanks to everyone who's responded. Last check it was at 13 responses. If I can get a 100 responses and it looks positive, I'll dig a little deeper.

Good news is that according to the FAA, there are over 1,000 pilots with a current medical that live in a zip code within 10 miles of my airport zip code.


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Done. If you get enough responses to feel the data may be representative please let us know how it turns out

Gary
 
GaryV said:
Done. If you get enough responses to feel the data may be representative please let us know how it turns out

Gary
Click to expand...

Will do. I'll run the numbers on sample size vs total population and publish here.


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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I think CFI's should pay for the privilege of riding with me - for one thing, they learn a lot. I frequently hear CFI's say that they have never seen anyone do what I do. Plus, I know that they recognize what an awesome pilot I am who doesn't need instruction because they usually say they don't need to ever fly with me again.
Click to expand...

I bet you get complimented on your instruments, too?

(Ancient PoA reference. Too old? :) )
 
I left off the hourly fee. Too many variations based on regional market, type of training, whether aircraft-specific etc, for generalization
 
Completed. Only feed back I had was there should be a question on current certificate/rating held and desired certificate/rating. That way you can judge a little better.


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Also got around to doing it.

BFR question will be weird for anyone actively pursuing ratings -- we don't need one right now because they have a new cert. Later we will when we stop... So when folks chasing ratings answer that, they'll skew your numbers high. :)

Also noticed you didn't mention the Wings program in that question... :)
 
Done.


If you live somewhere with a good population, you'll have plenty of business.

I'd recommend getting something set up with the locals schools and rental places where you can rent their planes for freelance, it's not that hard to set up, freelance is the way to go, I'd also look into being cash or barter.
 
I think the real question is, are you thinking about getting your CFI just for fun or actually as a means of generating income? Also, do you think you'll enjoy instruction?

I've got my CFI/II/MEI, but perhaps I'm a bit odd in the kind of instruction I do. I've only signed off 2 people for their ratings in the 8 years since I got my initial CFI. What I have done a lot more of is transition training and "advanced instruction," mostly helping people learn and get the most out of the twins or capable piston singles. I've done my share of flight reviews and IPCs as well. But that's the kind of instruction I enjoy and requires less of a commitment than trying to put someone through ratings. I don't really enjoy primary instruction. I like instrument instruction and multi engine instruction. In one case, teaching someone how to fly his Navajo resulted in a corporate gig flying the same Navajo around. These sorts of opportunities come up and are fun.

I didn't fill out your survey because it centers around cost. I paid for my initial ratings through CFI, but I haven't paid a CFI in years and don't see that changing anytime soon.

If you like instruction, get your CFI. You never know what opportunities may come up from it. If you are good at instruments and multi-engine, get your CFII and MEI. I add in the "if you're good at" because a lot of CFIIs and MEIs are low time in those areas and may be able to pass the checkride but I don't believe have much business teaching others towards those ratings.

If you're actually trying to make money off of it, then I think I'd be more careful, but you can probably at least earn enough money to pay for what your CFI cost you.
 
So, we're a little of 24 hours in and there are 45 responses. Thank you all for your input both here and the survey. I'm going to keep it open until I get to 100 responses.

In the meantime, here's a link to the results (https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-W6QCFMRB/).

@farmerbrake: good feedback; I'll add that if/when I go to the next phase of market research, and dig into my local supply of pilots.

@denverpilot: more good info for the next phase; didn't even cross my mind to include Wings.

@Ted DuPuis: Short answer: somewhat for fun, somewhat to turn a profit. Background: during my Air Force career, I spent several years as an E-3 aircrew flight instructor/evaluator both in line squadrons and at the E-3 schoolhouse. Roughly 800 instructor hours and another 250 evaluator hours. If I was going to choose a segment today, I would focus on transition to high performance singles - Mooney/Bo/Cirrus (last resort). For the time being, it would be teach on the side and find my niche. Long term (house will be paid for in 6 years) I don't have to work for a living, I just have to work to pay for flying. Not interested in the 121 world, but corporate flying might be fun for a while, too.
 
TCABM said:
@Ted DuPuis: Short answer: somewhat for fun, somewhat to turn a profit. Background: during my Air Force career, I spent several years as an E-3 aircrew flight instructor/evaluator both in line squadrons and at the E-3 schoolhouse. Roughly 800 instructor hours and another 250 evaluator hours. If I was going to choose a segment today, I would focus on transition to high performance singles - Mooney/Bo/Cirrus (last resort). For the time being, it would be teach on the side and find my niche. Long term (house will be paid for in 6 years) I don't have to work for a living, I just have to work to pay for flying. Not interested in the 121 world, but corporate flying might be fun for a while, too.
Click to expand...

Given that, I think it sounds like a good plan. Go for it! :thumbsup:
 
51 responses so far. Thanks to everyone who's voiced their opinion. I'm hoping to get 49 more responses.

Technically, with a population of approximate 590,000 active pilots on the FAA rolls, a sample size of 384 would be considered significant.

If there's that level of response, I would be ecstatic.

Live results here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-W6QCFMRB
 
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Thank you to the 56 folks who took my simple survey. Small print up front: According to the FAA, for the year 2106, there were approximately 584,000 active pilots in the US. With a sample size of 56 and a 95% confidence level, the margin of error is 13%. The results, with analysis below.

1. Most people pay a CFI for a new rating, certificate, or FR/IPC (no surprise there)
2. Less than half have paid for Spin/Aerobatic or other advanced training.
3. 75% plan to pay a CFI in the next 24 months as part of a FR/IPC. 16% don't plan to pay a CFI for these services ever again (coincides with percentage of CFIs to all airmen. So, instructors probably barter services with other instructors as a rule of business. There were some creative bartering ideas.
4. 73% plan to pursue additional ratings and pay for it.
5. Most prefer an hourly rate for a FR/IPC
6. Nearly half feel that $50/hr is a fair rate.
7. 70% believe personality/fit is the most important criteria when choosing an instructor (no surprise there, either).
8. 70% believe that CFI-I or Gold Seal, etc does not demand a premium.
9. There is no agreement as to whether a syllabus is important.
10. On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being very important, tailoring a syllabus is rated at 4.02. Kinda suprised by that one based on the nearly even split (53/47) for question 9 (is a syllabus important). Realize the margin of error means it could be as lopsided as 66 for/34 against. I would guess this means given a larger sample size, we gain more clarity of Q9.

What does this mean for me? Well, @ $50/hr I would have to bill more hours than I would want to for total income replacement. But, as a side gig/retirement gig I could recoup ALL my flight training costs in 5-6 years.

I'll leave the survey/results open for a while longer, but no more from me on this subject.
 
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TCABM said:
Thank you to the 56 folks who took my simple survey. Small print up front: According to the FAA, for the year 2106, there were approximately 584,000 active pilots in the US. With a sample size of 56 and a 95% confidence level, the margin of error is 13%. The results, with analysis below.

1. Most people pay a CFI for a new rating, certificate, or FR/IPC (no surprise there)
2. Less than half have paid for Spin/Aerobatic or other advanced training.
3. 75% plan to pay a CFI in the next 24 months as part of a FR/IPC. 16% don't plan to pay a CFI for these services ever again (coincides with percentage of CFIs to all airmen. So, instructors probably barter services with other instructors as a rule of business. There were some creative bartering ideas.
4. 73% plan to pursue additional ratings and pay for it.
5. Most prefer an hourly rate for a FR/IPC
6. Nearly half feel that $50/hr is a fair rate.
7. 70% believe personality/fit is the most important criteria when choosing an instructor (no surprise there, either).
8. 70% believe that CFI-I or Gold Seal, etc does not demand a premium.
9. There is no agreement as to whether a syllabus is important.
10. On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being very important, tailoring a syllabus is rated at 4.02. Kinda suprised by that one based on the nearly even split (53/47) for question 9 (is a syllabus important). Realize the margin of error means it could be as lopsided as 66 for/34 against. I would guess this means given a larger sample size, we gain more clarity of Q9.

What does this mean for me? Well, @ $50/hr I would have to bill more hours than I would want to for total income replacement. But, as a side gig/retirement gig I could recoup ALL my flight training costs in 5-6 years.

I'll leave the survey/results open for a while longer, but no more from me on this subject.
Click to expand...
A little late, but done.
 
TCABM said:
Thank you to the 56 folks who took my simple survey. Small print up front: According to the FAA, for the year 2106, there were approximately 584,000 active pilots in the US. With a sample size of 56 and a 95% confidence level, the margin of error is 13%. The results, with analysis below.

1. Most people pay a CFI for a new rating, certificate, or FR/IPC (no surprise there)
2. Less than half have paid for Spin/Aerobatic or other advanced training.
3. 75% plan to pay a CFI in the next 24 months as part of a FR/IPC. 16% don't plan to pay a CFI for these services ever again (coincides with percentage of CFIs to all airmen. So, instructors probably barter services with other instructors as a rule of business. There were some creative bartering ideas.
4. 73% plan to pursue additional ratings and pay for it.
5. Most prefer an hourly rate for a FR/IPC
6. Nearly half feel that $50/hr is a fair rate.
7. 70% believe personality/fit is the most important criteria when choosing an instructor (no surprise there, either).
8. 70% believe that CFI-I or Gold Seal, etc does not demand a premium.
9. There is no agreement as to whether a syllabus is important.
10. On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being very important, tailoring a syllabus is rated at 4.02. Kinda suprised by that one based on the nearly even split (53/47) for question 9 (is a syllabus important). Realize the margin of error means it could be as lopsided as 66 for/34 against. I would guess this means given a larger sample size, we gain more clarity of Q9.

What does this mean for me? Well, @ $50/hr I would have to bill more hours than I would want to for total income replacement. But, as a side gig/retirement gig I could recoup ALL my flight training costs in 5-6 years.

I'll leave the survey/results open for a while longer, but no more from me on this subject.
Click to expand...

Good luck on $50 an hour performing most flight instruction unless you are in a high wage market.
 
TCABM said:
Much like @denverpilot has done over the last year or so, I may now have the ability to go down the road of some advanced ratings with the intent of becoming a CFI. So, I put together a short, 10 question survey to give me some insight on when/how often pilots have a need for a CFI after they get their PPL.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C2QNZLQ

I'd appreciate it if y'all could help me better understand the general need you have for a CFI after your PPL.

I'll share the results when I'm done.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Done.
 
BrianNC said:
I like the positive spin on that. Or you could say more than half or the majority think $50 an hour isn't a fair rate. :)
Click to expand...

Or ...

"Whenever I'm looking for someone to teach me how to do something difficult in the sky, in such a way as I won't die doing it, I always look for one who charges an hourly rate lower than my plumber."

;-)
 
denverpilot said:
Or ...

"Whenever I'm looking for someone to teach me how to do something difficult in the sky, in such a way as I won't die doing it, I always look for one who charges an hourly rate lower than my plumber."

;-)
Click to expand...

$50 isn't so bad if you weren't paying to rent that darn plane too. :D
 
denverpilot said:
Or ...

"Whenever I'm looking for someone to teach me how to do something difficult in the sky, in such a way as I won't die doing it, I always look for one who charges an hourly rate lower than my plumber."

;-)
Click to expand...

Which one loves what they do, and which one has a crappy job? (Besides, in another thread you just said money is just money, to be earned, lost, saved or spent, but people skills are what mean the most.). :)
 
Lachlan said:
Which one loves what they do, and which one has a crappy job?
Click to expand...

Replace with any profesional services then. Your accountant probably makes more than your CFI.

Lachlan said:
(Besides, in another thread you just said money is just money, to be earned, lost, saved or spent, but people skills are what mean the most.). :)
Click to expand...

You sure that was me? Where?
 
BrianNC said:
$50 isn't so bad if you weren't paying to rent that darn plane too. :D
Click to expand...

I hear ya. Haha.

But definitely buy the plane if you can. Then you get all sorts of fun bills!

Airplane bills reminds me: I need to go update the Airport Bum thread. Ha.
 
I have 126.4 hours of dual flight instruction logged with 26 flight instructors and I never shopped for the low price leader.

I always felt that the quality of the instruction was more important than the price per hour.

I found that paying a little more per hour might actually save money on the rating.

I always paid more for the aircraft than the flight instructor.
 
denverpilot said:
Replace with any profesional services then. Your accountant probably makes more than your CFI.



You sure that was me? Where?
Click to expand...

Perimenopause thread. "Money is just money. It can be made and lost and saved or spent, but the "soft" relationship skills and working on them is a must when things are bad."
 
Lachlan said:
Perimenopause thread. "Money is just money. It can be made and lost and saved or spent, but the "soft" relationship skills and working on them is a must when things are bad."
Click to expand...

Ah, in relation to a failing marriage and a dude trying to buy love. Yes. No amount of money was going to fix that.

Dude still deserves to be paid at his job, though. Even if writing a check to a church wasn't exactly a marriage saver.
 
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