TFRs and VFR Flight Plans

LesGawlik

LesGawlik

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I have a question about flying in the outer ring of a TFR. The NOTAM says that if you are on an IFR or VFR flight plan, and squawking and talking, you're good to go.

I am specifically thinking about a flight from Ocean City Municipal, KOXB, to the Baltimore area. I know how to do it going east to get to OXB from Baltimore. But when I'm there and heading home, I'm not really sure what to do.

I've left from airports in the SFRA, and that's straightforward. Call the one number for Potomac, get your squawk and freq, and you're on your way. Check in right away. But OXB is a little different. I could call Potomac on the ground by telephone, and get my squawk and talk. But airborne I really worry about checking in because the radio reception is horrible. When I'm airborne in the SFRA I can check in right away. But when I leave OXB looking for flight following, I can't make radio contact with anyone. The last time I came back from OXB, last Wednesday, Potomac was on 119.7 and I was almost over the Bay before anyone answered. When I call Dover, they just say contact Potomac. I have even tried Easton tower (really to make sure my radios were transmitting) but there's nothing they can do.

On an IFR flight plan, it's easier. But on a VFR flight plan it's more complicated, since ATC knows nothing about your VFR flight plan. Do you open the VFR flight plan on the ground? Would you call FSS and ask them to open it? Would they give you a squawk and talk? Do you then have to call the TRACON?

What to do?
 
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ATC knows about your flight plan because instead of filing a VFR plan you file a SVFR plan.
 
From OXB on the ground, you call the tracon currently serving OXB on the phone to get your unique squawk. Then you speak to Tracon in the air, when able, and make sure you stay away from the inner ring.
 
If you're flying VFR to the portion of the Baltimore area that is outside of the DC SFRA, then all you need insofar as a flight plan is concerned is a VFR flight plan on file. The VFR flight plan does not need to be active (...All aircraft must be on an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility....).

So, while on the ground telephone the controlling ATC facility for the departure airport (KOXB) to get a squawk code and the frequency to contact once airborne. Either Patuxent at 301-342-3740 or Potomac as the backup at 866-640-4124 when/if Patuxent is closed. Squawk that code from the ground as you would when departing a SFRA airport. Contact Patuxent/Potomac Approach on the assigned frequency as soon as you can once you get into the air.

Take care to keep well away from the inner ring. If you are speaking with Approach then it probably won't be an issue for you to fly a route that keeps you in the outer ring a little longer so you can fly more directly to the Baltimore area. If you're having trouble communicating with ATC, I'd fly a more southerly initial heading to get out of the TFR as quickly as possible. Then turn northwest towards Baltimore once you're clear of the TFR.

I would guess that the procedure would be the same when the destination is an airport within the SFRA, as the SFRA flight plan begins at the SFRA gateway not at KOXB. So you'd have a VFR flight plane from KOXB to the gate, and the SFRA flight plan from there. Could be wrong about that, though, as I've never needed to plan a flight from a TFR into the SFRA.
 
I called Potomac QA and talked to a supervisor. The one thing that really had me concerned was the inability to contact ATC after departing. I can get the squawk and talk on the ground. The supervisor acknowledged that the radio reception was garbage in that area, especially when the sectors are switched over at night. He told me that Potomac has a repeater on Guard at Salisbury, which is right next door to KOXB. So my plan is to call on the ground, get my code and freq, depart and contact Potomac/Patuxent on 121.5 when airborne. I don't have to wait to get into range of the normal freqs.

I thought of a SFRA flight plan, and it might me nice if the NOTAM allowed for it. I don't see that.
 
bkspero said:
If you're flying VFR to the portion of the Baltimore area that is outside of the DC SFRA, then all you need insofar as a flight plan is concerned is a VFR flight plan on file. The VFR flight plan does not need to be active (...All aircraft must be on an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility....).
Click to expand...

Huh? Do you mean to ENTER the SFRA from outside?

You if you file VFR from OXB to an airport in the SFRA, you need two flights plans. The one to get out of OXB with the TFR and then the one to enter the SFRA.

Or, if capable, just file IFR.
 
Pinecone said:
Huh? Do you mean to ENTER the SFRA from outside?
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No, I was referring to a flight that terminated outside the DC SFRA. Specifically, in the portion that you quoted, "...If you're flying VFR to the portion of the Baltimore area that is outside of the DC SFRA..."
 
If you are not flying into or out of or through the SFRA you don't need to be on a flight plan or talking to anyone. Outside the SFRA is normal airspace (be aware of all the Class B airspace in area.
 
I specifically posted about leaving the outer ring of a TFR. You DO have to be talking to someone or you will be intercepted.
 
LesGawlik said:
I specifically posted about leaving the outer ring of a TFR. You DO have to be talking to someone or you will be intercepted.
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I was not responding to you.

I was responding to this:
If you're flying VFR to the portion of the Baltimore area that is outside of the DC SFRA, then all you need insofar as a flight plan is concerned is a VFR flight plan on file.
Click to expand...

If you are outside the SFRA, you are outside the SFRA.

Maybe this person meant outside the FRZ, but within the SFRA, but that is not what they said.
 
Les,

file, then when your run up is complete call Patuxent clearance delivery on 121.75 for the clearance and squawk. Typically it’s a departure on a 270 heading until ID’ed then turned on course. Easy peasy!
 
As I understand the process from the class I took several years ago, and unless the process has been changed, you need to file a VFR flight plan for SFRA penetration to a specific airport and entering through an SFRA gate. If transitioning through the SFRA without stopping then you file from the entry gate to the exit gate. For example, if your departure is OBX and your destination is Bay Bridge W29, then you file from OBX to W29 via the PALEO gate. If you are flying from Fredericksburg to Easton the you file from EZF to ESN via GRUBY and WHINO or PALEO depending on your route, but if it was me from EZF I'd likely just fly around it, but from Culpeper CJR I'd file through the BRV gate. If you get the code before takeoff and are squawking as long as you get radio contact with confirmed radar coverage before entering the SFRA you are good.

I spent some time discussing this with a flight briefer and ATC on the phone. What they want is a general idea of your plan so they do not have surprises within the SFRA. You are required to talk and squawk, but radar service like VFR Flight following is not guaranteed. SFRA Penetration and Radar Services are two separate things. They have to monitor your squawk and verify radar can see you, but they do not have to provide VFR services if they are busy.

Hope this helps.
 
GMascelli said:
Les,

file, then when your run up is complete call Patuxent clearance delivery on 121.75 for the clearance and squawk. Typically it’s a departure on a 270 heading until ID’ed then turned on course. Easy peasy!
Click to expand...
Will this work for a VFR departure? Does CD give you squawk and talk if you're VFR?
 
Rgbeard said:
And people in the Southeast U.S. gripe about the "complexities" of the Eglin airspace! HA!
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Give the bombing/missile range a look in NM. It runs from Alamogordo to west of Clovis and starts just north of the Ft. Bliss Reservation.
 
LesGawlik said:
I have a question about flying in the outer ring of a TFR. The NOTAM says that if you are on an IFR or VFR flight plan, and squawking and talking, you're good to go.

I am specifically thinking about a flight from Ocean City Municipal, KOXB, to the Baltimore area. I know how to do it going east to get to OXB from Baltimore. But when I'm there and heading home, I'm not really sure what to do.

I've left from airports in the SFRA, and that's straightforward. Call the one number for Potomac, get your squawk and freq, and you're on your way. Check in right away. But OXB is a little different. I could call Potomac on the ground by telephone, and get my squawk and talk. But airborne I really worry about checking in because the radio reception is horrible. When I'm airborne in the SFRA I can check in right away. But when I leave OXB looking for flight following, I can't make radio contact with anyone. The last time I came back from OXB, last Wednesday, Potomac was on 119.7 and I was almost over the Bay before anyone answered. When I call Dover, they just say contact Potomac. I have even tried Easton tower (really to make sure my radios were transmitting) but there's nothing they can do.

On an IFR flight plan, it's easier. But on a VFR flight plan it's more complicated, since ATC knows nothing about your VFR flight plan. Do you open the VFR flight plan on the ground? Would you call FSS and ask them to open it? Would they give you a squawk and talk? Do you then have to call the TRACON?

What to do?
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what TFR are you concerned about?
 
The Rehoboth TFR that shows up whenever The Big Guy is there.
 
LesGawlik said:
The Rehoboth TFR that shows up whenever The Big Guy is there.
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Which is virtually every weekend of his administration. It's cut off a huge block of weekend airspace in the Mid-Atlantic so knowing how to work around this security theatre and not get a close-up view of a lawn dart is key. I don't think I've heard of a weekend passing without guard calls.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
As I understand the process from the class I took several years ago, and unless the process has been changed, you need to file a VFR flight plan for SFRA penetration to a specific airport and entering through an SFRA gate. If transitioning through the SFRA without stopping then you file from the entry gate to the exit gate. For example, if your departure is OBX and your destination is Bay Bridge W29, then you file from OBX to W29 via the PALEO gate.
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Uuh, Bay Bridge is NOT in the SFRA. It is under the Class B 4500 foot shelf.
 
LesGawlik said:
Will this work for a VFR departure? Does CD give you squawk and talk if you're VFR?
Click to expand...

Yes. You have to file a flight plan to enter or leave the SFRA. And if you are VFR, this is separate from your regular flight plan. You file the SFRA flight plan to/from the airport and from/to one of the gates.

Best, just do the SFRA training. It doesn't take long. And you will call it up again to remind you how to do it when you actually use it.

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=405&sID=641&preview=true
 
GMascelli said:
Yes, either way you have to have a flight plan to get out of the TFR.
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This is what I don't understand. ATC is agnostic about a VFR plan. I guess they just take your word for it. They get a P strip for an IFR flight plan, but there is no connection between a VFR FP and ATC.
 
Pinecone said:
Yes. You have to file a flight plan to enter or leave the SFRA. And if you are VFR, this is separate from your regular flight plan. You file the SFRA flight plan to/from the airport and from/to one of the gates.

Best, just do the SFRA training. It doesn't take long. And you will call it up again to remind you how to do it when you actually use it.

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=405&sID=641&preview=true
Click to expand...
I've done the SFRA training and have flown SFRA plans since it began.

My question was specifically about the TFR donut and leaving affected airports VFR. IFR is easy. The disconnect between ATC and VFR flight plans has me confused. It looks like ATC gives you VFR flight following and that's enough, even though the NOTAM does not seem to permit that.
 
Just file the VFR flight plan and then call ATC via the phone or radio to get your squawk code. Although ATC won't have access to your VFR flight plan that is on file with the FSS, they will assign you your transponder code and ask basic route information, such as your destination. You must squawk the code prior to departure and maintain radio contact with ATC until you exit the outer ring of the TFR. It is not required to activate your VFR flight plan, it simply must be on file, so FSS will have pilot information and ATC can always call FSS if they need it.
 
And that was my second concern. Radio coverage is very bad there and I thought it might not be possible to maintain radio contact with ATC. Hence my call to Potomac, where I learned and mentioned above that they have a Guard repeater at Salisbury.
 
LesGawlik said:
This is what I don't understand. ATC is agnostic about a VFR plan. I guess they just take your word for it. They get a P strip for an IFR flight plan, but there is no connection between a VFR FP and ATC.
Click to expand...

When you fly a SFRA flight plan, even VFR, you tick the IFR box. This puts you in their system and assigns a squawk.
 
People are combining and confusing TFR with the SFRA.

The SFRA is a special TFR with different rules than "normal" TFRs.
 
Pinecone said:
When you fly a SFRA flight plan, even VFR, you tick the IFR box. This puts you in their system and assigns a squawk.
Click to expand...
I know that. The donut of a TFR is not a SFRA. Different rules apply.
 
LesGawlik said:
I called Potomac QA and talked to a supervisor. The one thing that really had me concerned was the inability to contact ATC after departing. I can get the squawk and talk on the ground. The supervisor acknowledged that the radio reception was garbage in that area, especially when the sectors are switched over at night. He told me that Potomac has a repeater on Guard at Salisbury, which is right next door to KOXB. So my plan is to call on the ground, get my code and freq, depart and contact Potomac/Patuxent on 121.5 when airborne. I don't have to wait to get into range of the normal freqs.

I thought of a SFRA flight plan, and it might me nice if the NOTAM allowed for it. I don't see that.
Click to expand...

I called Potomac to ask about that, and indeed an SFRA plan cannot be used in lieu of a VFR flight plan for the purposes of complying with the TFR requirements.
 
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