Telling It Like It Is — One Captain’s Opinion

taters

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Taters
A nice story I came across today.

Telling It Like It Is — One Captain’s Opinion A confusing departure chart and what the Captain characterized as over-reliance on automation resulted in a track deviation and traffic conflict for this air carrier Flight Crew. The Captain elaborates on his assessment of automation dependency and cluttered charts. ? Two major points here: 1) I’m tired of flying around with people who are predisposed to let LNAV and automation lead them around by the nose and, 2) charts have gotten ridiculous…. It was the First Officer’s leg. We were late, but I really try to provide a laid back, don’t rush CRM posture. We did all the things we were supposed to do, but I guess we didn’t spend 15 minutes reading every word on the NEWARK ONE 22L/R departure page. This chart is a triple folded, 10-inch wide encyclopedia. The important piece of information is what to do on takeoff, yet it’s practically hidden in a box towards the bottom of the page…. When you consider the congested airspace in that area, it’s critical that you don’t turn the wrong way after takeoff, but that’s exactly what we did. Why we did that, I don’t know. We’re human I guess. At 400 feet the First Officer said, “LNAV.” I furrowed my brow…and thought, “Okay, maybe I missed something.” But I went ahead and punched LNAV and looked down at the LEGS page on my side and saw LANNA at the top. I said something like, “That doesn’t sound right.” Meanwhile our VSI was pegged because we were climbing like a fighter since we only had twenty-some people onboard. While we were in the right turn, obviously towards the wrong place…I’m feeling like this is not going well while the First Officer is climbing and turning right toward an aircraft crossing our nose from left to right. He’s still a bit away, but…this looks like it’s going to be unusually close. I say…“Watch that guy,” pointing at the traffic, when I hear Departure say, “Did Tower give you a heading?” All my senses now tell me my first gut feeling was correct and I answer, “Ah, we’re checking,” while Departure rapidly rattles off, “Stop at 4,000 feet; turn left to 270; traffic 12 o’clock.” I told him we had the traffic in sight and he says, “You guys need to be careful.” So, back to point number one. When I first was blessed to be a part of this fine group of pilots, the Captains I flew with all told me, “Never trust that box.” And we didn’t. We used our brains to fly the airplane. Now however, we bow to that thing! This is the second time this has happened to me and yes, of course it’s “my fault,” but both times it’s because [pilots] just let LNAV lead them around. These are not RNAV departures, they are ‘heading’ departures, but we’ve brainwashed everyone to think, “Just hit LNAV and it will be all right.” It’s not. Please don’t tell me, a “proper briefing” would’ve solved all this because we’ve reached briefing overload. [Pilots] are more worried about doing all the briefings than paying attention to actually flying the airplane…. The First Officer didn’t see the traffic because he was face down in the instrument panel following the FD LNAV guidance. When all this happened, his first reaction was to put on the autopilot and start reading the departure chart to see where we screwed up. I had to ask him to let it go until we got higher.
 
Interesting write up.

Switching over to departure out of EWR one night I heard the controller tell the plane in front of us "uh sir, it's a right turn to 040, not a left.." The implications of that mistake is putting the departing EWR traffic in conflict with arrivals in to LGA heading up the Hudson. Fortunately it was late at night and the controllers didn't care, just pointing it out (they said as much on the freq).

That being said, the EWR1 is about as simple a departure as their is.... Left turn to 190, at 2.3DME off of ILSQ right turn to 220, maintain 5k.... slight left, slight right, done.
 
I'm not sure what "The Captain's" suggested remedy is. Mostly what I got was the aviation equivalent of, "Get off my lawn!"

What I heard him say:
* Charts are confusing
* Don't rely on the box
* We used to use our brain to fly the plane

So...I should use my brain, whine about charts, and not use my autopilot? Or did he have some other point I should take away?

He seemed to pooh-pooh the one thing that appeared obvious to me: The crew had not adequately briefed the departure so that they knew what they were about to fly.
 
Are you sure it isn't a parody on POA member Captain?
 
A nice story I came across today.

Telling It Like It Is — One Captain’s Opinion A confusing departure chart and what the Captain characterized as over-reliance on automation resulted in a track deviation and traffic conflict for this air carrier Flight Crew. The Captain elaborates on his assessment of automation dependency and cluttered charts. ? Two major points here: 1) I’m tired of flying around with people who are predisposed to let LNAV and automation lead them around by the nose and, 2) charts have gotten ridiculous….

It was the First Officer’s leg. We were late, but I really try to provide a laid back, don’t rush CRM posture. We did all the things we were supposed to do, but I guess we didn’t spend 15 minutes reading every word on the NEWARK ONE 22L/R departure page. This chart is a triple folded, 10-inch wide encyclopedia. The important piece of information is what to do on takeoff, yet it’s practically hidden in a box towards the bottom of the page….

When you consider the congested airspace in that area, it’s critical that you don’t turn the wrong way after takeoff, but that’s exactly what we did. Why we did that, I don’t know. We’re human I guess.

At 400 feet the First Officer said, “LNAV.” I furrowed my brow…and thought, “Okay, maybe I missed something.” But I went ahead and punched LNAV and looked down at the LEGS page on my side and saw LANNA at the top. I said something like, “That doesn’t sound right.”

Meanwhile our VSI was pegged because we were climbing like a fighter since we only had twenty-some people onboard. While we were in the right turn, obviously towards the wrong place…I’m feeling like this is not going well while the First Officer is climbing and turning right toward an aircraft crossing our nose from left to right. He’s still a bit away, but…this looks like it’s going to be unusually close. I say…“Watch that guy,” pointing at the traffic, when I hear Departure say, “Did Tower give you a heading?”

All my senses now tell me my first gut feeling was correct and I answer, “Ah, we’re checking,” while Departure rapidly rattles off, “Stop at 4,000 feet; turn left to 270; traffic 12 o’clock.” I told him we had the traffic in sight and he says, “You guys need to be careful.”

So, back to point number one. When I first was blessed to be a part of this fine group of pilots, the Captains I flew with all told me, “Never trust that box.” And we didn’t. We used our brains to fly the airplane. Now however, we bow to that thing!

This is the second time this has happened to me and yes, of course it’s “my fault,” but both times it’s because [pilots] just let LNAV lead them around. These are not RNAV departures, they are ‘heading’ departures, but we’ve brainwashed everyone to think, “Just hit LNAV and it will be all right.” It’s not.

Please don’t tell me, a “proper briefing” would’ve solved all this because we’ve reached briefing overload. [Pilots] are more worried about doing all the briefings than paying attention to actually flying the airplane….

The First Officer didn’t see the traffic because he was face down in the instrument panel following the FD LNAV guidance. When all this happened, his first reaction was to put on the autopilot and start reading the departure chart to see where we screwed up. I had to ask him to let it go until we got higher.
__________________
CFI's/ATP/CRJ-700

I took the liberty of making this easier to read.

-John
 
A nice story I came across today.

I will share a story with you that demonstrates how confusing departure charts coupled with an over reliance on automation resulted in a track deviation, and a traffic conflict for an air carrier flight crew.

The First Officer was in control and we were late, but I did my best not to rush him. We briefed ourselves on the NEWARK ONE 22L/R departure procedure, but missed a critical item that was not obvious regarding takeoff procedures. As a result, we turned the wrong way on takeoff.

The first officer decided to engage the autopilot under LNAV guidance. After doing so, intersection LANNA did not appear to be in the right place. The aircraft was also climbing at an abnormal rate, turning towards the wrong place, and we observed a traffic conflict. Departure control inquired if the tower had assigned an initial heading, and subsequently vectored us away from the traffic, and advised us what we need to exercise due caution.

The lesson that we learned from this experience is that we should not place inappropriate reliance on our flight director, particularly when the departure itself is not RNAV. I believe that due to the complexity of the charts and procedures, this situation might not have been preventable even with a proper briefing.

_________________
CFI's/ATP/CRJ-700

I took the liberty of making this even easier to read.

-Sac
 
Are you sure it isn't a parody on POA member Captain?

That guy isn't at all like me. If fact I have little sympathy for him and think, further, his attitude sux. If the automation is too much for him then perhaps it's time to hang it up.

How you launch on a 'complex triple fold charted procedure' out of a field you know to be in busy airspace is beyond me.

I know these guys are out there, I've met them. It's funny how he blames everything in the world except the real problem..him.
 
That guy isn't at all like me. If fact I have little sympathy for him and think, further, his attitude sux. If the automation is too much for him then perhaps it's time to hang it up.

How you launch on a 'complex triple fold charted procedure' out of a field you know to be in busy airspace is beyond me.

I know these guys are out there, I've met them. It's funny how he blames everything in the world except the real problem..him.

Never said that guy equated to you. Actually, I couldn't really follow it until it was parsed sufficiently.
 
to help the readers from the South, could you shorten the long words and add pictures? :lol:


And for the college educated, especially MBAs, could you add some pretty graphs, print it out and stack copies on a table, and summarize it down into one PowerPoint slide? ;)
 
I'd be interested to see what the Jepp chart looks like for this, if anyone can post a copy. One of the author's main complaints is that the immediately-after-takeoff procedure is hard to find. On the FAA charts, it's right in the middle of the first page.

Page 1: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK.PDF
Page 2: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK_C.PDF
Page 3: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK_C2.PDF

Now, there is a lot of text on this 3-page DP, I'll give him that. But the DP boils down to "runway heading to 500, turn left to 190, at 2.3 DME turn right to 220, expect vectors to SBJ/SBJ R-274. Doesn't seem like anything to get too worked up about.

However, if the Jepp depiction is different, that might account for the confusion. I'd be interested in seeing it.
 
I'd be interested to see what the Jepp chart looks like for this, if anyone can post a copy. One of the author's main complaints is that the immediately-after-takeoff procedure is hard to find. On the FAA charts, it's right in the middle of the first page.

Page 1: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK.PDF
Page 2: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK_C.PDF
Page 3: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1313/00285NEWARK_C2.PDF

Now, there is a lot of text on this 3-page DP, I'll give him that. But the DP boils down to "runway heading to 500, turn left to 190, at 2.3 DME turn right to 220, expect vectors to SBJ/SBJ R-274. Doesn't seem like anything to get too worked up about.

However, if the Jepp depiction is different, that might account for the confusion. I'd be interested in seeing it.

I can't post a copy from JeppFD, but have it on my iPad. In my opinion, the Biggest difference is that while the FAA chart shows all the runway departures in the center whereas the Jepp has each runway depicted separately in its own box. The boxes are hardly hidden. If anything, I think the Jepp is actually easier to read than the FAA.

Having seen the chart he is referring to.....I'd say he is wanking.
 
guess the OP is not a UA pilot . . . .or else he'd have the stupid EWR departures memorized . . .

how can a CAPT go into or out of a place like NYC and not at least take a look at what was being assigned as part of the pre-departure brief?
 
guess the OP is not a UA pilot . . . .or else he'd have the stupid EWR departures memorized . . .
Especially if he was from the Continental side. Continental subsumed People Express back in the Lorenzo days.
 
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