Taxes and planes

arnoha

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arnoha
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I have had it with my current tax preparer. She came highly recommended, this is my third year with her, but she's royally screwing up this year. There were small errors in previous years, but nothing serious and there's enough pain in changing that I decided to try one more year. I'm an idiot.

I have a specific and general question.

The specific one: Are you in the San Francisco Bay Area and own a plane? Maybe one on leaseback? Do you have anyone to recommend for tax preparation?

The general one: What does a good experience with a tax preparer look like? I used to do my own, but they got seriously complicated a few years ago. I don't trust myself to get them right, but now I don't really trust anyone else, either. Bleh.

I'm in a seriously bad mood right now. Probably shouldn't be playing on a public forum...

EDIT: Shoudn't. Shoudn't be playing on a public forum.
 
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Can't tell you if he's good or not, but my typical preparer sends me a massive packet of requested information, quite organized with questions and items to include, and then we ship or take to him a large pile of stuff and usually a letter for anything I didn't see when I did my own research into any "complex" things where I think he might miss something. He'll call in a couple of weeks, answer my questions, recommend any actions needed for those items (or if they're not worth messing with or likely to trigger audits), and then give me a choice of options if there are any... and he'll make notes and hand the pile to an underling who'll do all the data entry into their software and prepare the returns.

Then I get a phone call that they're done and to either mail or stop by with a check and they'll hand me a packet to confirm and the choice of having them electronically file or me mail the stuff.

In years we get a refund (rare, we try not to make unsecured loans to the IRS), we have them electronically file. In years where we have to pay, they create the mailing strips and stick those in an envelope in our packet and hand those to us, and we sit those out on a desk and mail the check on the second to last day it can be mailed unless we have something more fun to do and choose to mail it a few days sooner to avoid being out of town or something like that.

Pretty simple, but I wouldn't say it's a hands-off process. Only we know the whole picture of our taxes and changes in life and what-not. We have to do a little research and at least put some notes together in that annual letter for him to review.

Sorry, it's not much. And it's not San Fran. And it's not a leaseback or a business. But we do have to file the appropriate Schedules from the aircraft LLC along with our stuff since we co-own the LLC. Our accountant sees only a handful of those per year out of hundreds of prepared taxes, so I don't expect him to memorize everything needed -- just know where to look it up when I say "We still own the airplane LLC and the paperwork is included."

He's worth a couple hundred bucks a year. I could sit for hours and fill out all the crap on paper or TurboTax or whatever, but he keeps my time spent down to a whopping one hour per year. Maybe an hour and fifteen if I count mailing the checks.

The real trick with finding him was to ask for references from friends who run significant privately held businesses. He does their much more complex taxes quarterly, so my stuff is super easy for him. The typical low level tax preparer only does simple personal taxes for folks who can't figure out a 1040EZ form. You need a reference to a business tax person from someone who you know runs a complex business. They don't advertise much, they're busy and buried in stuff to do. Then you meet with them at least once in person as much as to interview them as to provide them with the general notes about your business.

The referral I got said, "He's a long way away in Colorado Springs but he's handled accounting and taxes for four businesses for me over the years and it's worth going down there."

Now if I could just find a plumber with similar glowing recommendations when I need one. Haha.
 
P.S. Shop for them BEFORE Jan 1. They get busy at year end and that in-person meeting won't happen. Shop in the off season for taxes, not last minute. If you really hit the off season right, you'll get a call back from an assistant that says they're on vacation for a few weeks. Usually summertime. Trying to reach them during quarterlies or the big annual push is an exercise in futility. They won't be calling back if they're busy with other client's stuff.
 
P.S. Shop for them BEFORE Jan 1. They get busy at year end and that in-person meeting won't happen. Shop in the off season for taxes, not last minute. If you really hit the off season right, you'll get a call back from an assistant that says they're on vacation for a few weeks. Usually summertime. Trying to reach them during quarterlies or the big annual push is an exercise in futility. They won't be calling back if they're busy with other client's stuff.

Thank you much for the write-up. I intend to start looking very soon. I didn't state in the opening post, but this is a filing for 2015 with the automatic extension, which means due Oct. 15.

I wish it were a few hundred dollars for her services. It's thousands. She came with excellent recommendations. It's a public board, I'm easily identifiable, so I hesitate to put real numbers down. Suffice it to say, the amount of money that has been screwed up is not trivial. The experience you describe is not altogether different than mine, save that the phone calls are typically email instead. It's just the mistakes, the asking of the same question more than once, the questions that go unanswered, and a promise of much more than I have received.

I'm not sure who I'm more angry at. Her for screwing up or myself for letting inertia carry me into a third year when the first two were merely meh. Maybe I'll be more clearheaded in the morning. If I can sleep.
 
I'm not sure who I'm more angry at. Her for screwing up or myself for letting inertia carry me into a third year when the first two were merely meh. Maybe I'll be more clearheaded in the morning. If I can sleep.

The problem won't fix itself overnight. Get some rest and tackle it tomorrow. Staying awake won't help.
 
My tax repairer is a CPA who owns and runs her own small business. The first time she did them she found the previous guy had made a serious mistake to the tune of $1,900. It was nice to get a refund for a change. The franchisees and bookkeepers no longer get my business.
 
I'm married to a CPA & tax preparer. My observation is that it like law, medicine, and engineering, there are subspecialties, and if you ask someone to work outside their subspeciality, you take a risk. Unfortunately, I don't have a specific answer or recommendation for you, unless you are veterinarian or a hairdresser or handling an estate....
 
  • I asked a CPA and former tax preparer who she used and I used the same firm. A firm is better, i think, because they have several individuals, and can assign one who can deal with your specific situation
 
Not a whole lotta bites on this thread. That kinda makes me think that folks have middling experiences at best. Nothing fantastic to share. Nothing cringe-worthy. That's not a good sign. I'm guessing there's some cringe-worthy ones that are being kept private due to embarrassment. (I'm weird. Venting my embarrassment helps me feel less embarrassed. Seems counter-intuitive.)

The miss was by 40% of the tax owed. Ouch.
 
Not a whole lotta bites on this thread. That kinda makes me think that folks have middling experiences at best. Nothing fantastic to share. Nothing cringe-worthy. That's not a good sign. I'm guessing there's some cringe-worthy ones that are being kept private due to embarrassment. (I'm weird. Venting my embarrassment helps me feel less embarrassed. Seems counter-intuitive.)

The miss was by 40% of the tax owed. Ouch.

I had one near miss that could have resulted in a massive fine. That same guy I now use helped us figure out what we had done wrong and had already fixed it, but behind schedule. Then we filed paperwork explaining the problem and that the tax was paid late due to an error by an investment company, and then the waiting for the bureaucracy to bless the situation started. Which had me at a low level of worry for over six months.

They eventually sent some scary letters and I had to call to ask what the hell they even meant and they explained that the way the process works when you fess up is they send you scary letters that say you did naughty things and then follow them up with a letter saying "okay, we forgive you, you moron". Problem was, my letters not only arrived out of order, backward, but the person doing the "investigation" at IRS actually issued them backward about a month apart.

Talk about heart attack central. After I figured out that all was well, I wanted to strangle the bureaucrat who sent those letters out in the wrong order.

I guess the good news of this story is, even mistakes are usually handled reasonably. But I know there's no guarantees and you can hit a grumpy agent.

Realistically though, talking with the senior person after they scared the crap out of me, she said really they just have piles of stuff on their desks and want to clear it off and go home for the day, just like anyone else. There's always a few that make it a mission to make other people miserable, but even those have to back down when and if you show up with a tax attorney who's seen it all... and knows they're being an ass.

And... the wheels grind incredibly slow. It's horrendous waiting on word after you follow the rules and send a letter explaining the mistake after paying either what you can, or all of it, at least a little up front. (We could afford to completely pay the tax due, we just had an investment firm screw up and not do something they should have until the turn of the year. Holidays, they got busy, hell if I know. I had them by the short hairs if I had to take that big fine, but I really didn't want it to turn into a war.)

If the current tax "professional" won't write up the letter and help through that process, definitely find one who will and won't have any trouble saying they found the original "professional's" work to have errors and lacking in knowledge.

That's actually the one thing you really have going for you. You didn't make the mistake without "counsel". A pro helped you dig your hole and weirdly, they seem to take that better than some business owner or individual screwing it all up on their own. Probably because that's by far more common. They can't relate too well to idiots making their own mistakes, but they will acknowledge that if you hire a pro and the pro messes up, you trusted them, and as long as you can get that documented in the process, it will help.

I'm assuming she marked all your returns as prepared by a pro with her info as she was supposed to, even though you sign it saying it's correct. If so, you're in better shape when you send the "awww crap, we missed something" letter. In my case, my pro even wrote that letter. I suspect if you've dumped her, she won't for you, but the next pro probably will. They can easily see her mistakes and document them as something they helped you find and start to correct.

My pro said when we sent the letter it was 50/50 for an audit, but he'd stand there with me and could recommend an attorney if needed and it got out of hand for any reason. He also said that it was very rare to see the entire fine amount levied after a meeting, unless someone was dumb enough to act belligerent to the agent and make them angry.

You'll be fine. The dollar amount sounds higher and the penalty will look even scarier, but in the end, they're not after taxes that weren't owed, and they're not quick to slam people with huge fines. We ended up with taxes paid about three months late, proved that it had actually been overpaid by a small amount because we had to estimate a very difficult calculation, and the final letter pretty much said "that's enough, we'll keep the little bit of extra, don't do it again".

I joked with my tax guy when it was over that they kept the little bit of extra because THEY couldn't do that damned math, either.

(It's one of those multiple year horrible weird sliding scale things that has to be calculated at the exact moment a withdrawal is taken from an account and once you're past that date and don't know the market value to the instant it should have happened, you'll never find a 100% correct number. So the whole calculation is screwed. We just documented our assumptions and the math and guessed a little in favor of IRS.)

You'll get through it. It makes most analytical or business minded folks feel crazy going through the process because you can't control it. You just write up the problem, fix it as best you can, document that, and wait. And wait. And wait. Drives anyone used to running things, a little crazy.
 
You'll get through it. It makes most analytical or business minded folks feel crazy going through the process because you can't control it. You just write up the problem, fix it as best you can, document that, and wait. And wait. And wait. Drives anyone used to running things, a little crazy.

Well, I should say no bites except you, Nate. Thank you for the long write-ups. Thankfully, this mistake was caught before my taxes were filed, which should reduce my chances for an audit. Clearly, I'm months behind on my estimated payments, but I should be able to avoid penalties because I've never had a bill this big before. And I am able to pay the taxes. It just hurts to sign that check when it was so unexpected and really should not have been. And, yes, the tax firm is on to up-and-up...both the owner and another CPA at the company reviewed the final forms.
 
Had the owner of a decent sized firm do mine, I got LESS back than the lady at HR block got me, and I was even depreciating my plane and had MORE expenses this time around, same boat, I'm shopping for someone who knows a little about aviation, no more people learning about aviation on my dime.
 
Maybe I should become the aviation tax expert. No wait. I hated that class in college. I'll stick to finding obscure anamolies in balance sheets and running manufacturing plants.

I used to know a tax lady up in Napa but she's retired now. Sorry.
 
Distance is no barrier anymore, I had a really good one 350 miles away. I went to meet him one time in many years - everything was done online and occasionally by usps.
 
PS I used to think the best cpa was the one that saved you the most $ in a return. Another factor should be, "files returns that minimizes your likelihood of an irs review".
 
Ha! My first cpa turned out to be a hardline communist! Found out later.
I think he enjoyed it when I busted my rear all year, then had little to show after taxes!
 
Yeah, I'm resigned to writing the pair of giant checks. I'm not going to claim hardship...I have the money. It just wasn't in the plan, and it was avoidable if she had given me the right tax advice at the right time, when I asked for it. I'm also probably now lit up like a Christmas tree for an audit. If an agency comes calling, though, I'd much rather it be the IRS than the FTB. Hard to imagine something scarier than the IRS...but if there is one, it's the FTB.
 
Yeah, I'm resigned to writing the pair of giant checks. I'm not going to claim hardship...I have the money. It just wasn't in the plan, and it was avoidable if she had given me the right tax advice at the right time, when I asked for it. I'm also probably now lit up like a Christmas tree for an audit. If an agency comes calling, though, I'd much rather it be the IRS than the FTB. Hard to imagine something scarier than the IRS...but if there is one, it's the FTB.
Did you end up finding anyone decent?
 
Found someone...ask me in April if they're actually decent.

Yeah well fat lot of good that does me FOR April. =P

I'm looking at the schedule E myself. I think I can take the straight line depreciation and that'll cover all my rental income. But I think I can carry the losses forward... meh. Guess I'll be doing more research!
 
Yeah well fat lot of good that does me FOR April. =P

I'm looking at the schedule E myself. I think I can take the straight line depreciation and that'll cover all my rental income. But I think I can carry the losses forward... meh. Guess I'll be doing more research!
She's local, so I doubt it would do you much good in SoCal.

Be careful carrying losses forward. That's generally very difficult to do with a passive income business. The rules for it not being passive are pretty restrictive.
 
PS I used to think the best cpa was the one that saved you the most $ in a return. Another factor should be, "files returns that minimizes your likelihood of an irs review".
My guy has a small firm, probably 15 total employees, his dad was my dad's CPA and mine as well until he retired. We have always agreed to "no red flags" don't file anything that isn't 100% legit, even if it looks legal, but might not be. Keeping the IRS out of my life is worth a couple $$ every year. :rolleyes:
 
She's local, so I doubt it would do you much good in SoCal.

Be careful carrying losses forward. That's generally very difficult to do with a passive income business. The rules for it not being passive are pretty restrictive.

SoCal has the same FTB as NorCal. A good tax preparer should be able to handle all 50 states as well, and it absolutely can be done remotely.

My mom was an EA for 25 years. Did a lot of partnerships, but no aviation that I know of.

Property and income taxes in California are statewide.
 
SoCal has the same FTB as NorCal. A good tax preparer should be able to handle all 50 states as well, and it absolutely can be done remotely.

My mom was an EA for 25 years. Did a lot of partnerships, but no aviation that I know of.

Property and income taxes in California are statewide.
Aware...let me rephrase. She has plenty of local business and chooses not to do long-distance at the moment. If that changes (and if I think she's worth recommending), I'll post up here.
 
Well that's good info to have. I know there are some pretty high standards to meet the schedule c filing so schedule e seems like it's my best bet.
 
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