Takeoff Technique vs Procedure

Which is your preferred takeoff techique?

  • Full Power with brakes

    Votes: 2 2.5%

  • Ease in the power while Rolling

    Votes: 77 97.5%
  • Total voters
    79
Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I have observed that some prefer to line up on the runway, brakes-on go full power, then release brakes. Others prefer (like me) to ease-in power while rolling. Are there situations where preference becomes procedure (not talking about the obvious short field techique/ procedure)?

Which do you prefer and why?
 
First flight after a long layoff? Short field technique (Gradual but full power, confirm making power, release brakes)

Otherwise I usually roll on, and gradually apply power as the airplane straightens.
 
Ok, I will admit the last time I departed 17 at ONZ, I squeezed over to get right at the very end of the runway, put in the power and let go of the brakes. For no good reason other than to try to get 50 (or so) feet off the ground before I got to the numbers. (672 feet of displaced threshold helped)

But in general, I would think the rolling start would reduce the rate at which stuff gets sucked up into the prop.
 
I roll onto the runway, align, and bring the throttle in smoothly. I may stop on the runway as part of the alignment, but I don't hold brakes while bringing in the throttle, unless I'm making a short field takeoff.
 
I would say that the best practice to do a short-field style takeoff most of the time. Now if the tower says "No-delay N12345 cleared-for-takeoff traffic on final." and there is 4,000ft of runway, just make the rolling takeoff. (Although you can always tell the tower your just going wait, don't let the tower rush you into making a mistake)

<---<^>--->
 
Rolling takeoff, unless it's off of 27 in BRS, then it's holding the brakes while the engines spool up. It's a little unnerving taking off there sometimes.. :D


Oh, and full power before brake release is a must at SXM. Gotta blast those crazy people on the beach!
 
I'm just waiting for someone to insist that one way is right and the other wrong.

Or am I thinking of another board?
 
Rolling takeoff unless I'm making a short field takeoff or the manufacturer recommends otherwise. Embraer recommends a static takeoff in the Phenom so we hold the brakes until takeoff thrust is established before we roll.
 
I won't do a rolling takeoff in an airplane that's been sitting for days since last flight.

I like to concentrate on seeing what I expect before rolling.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I'm just waiting for someone to insist that one way is right and the other wrong.

Or am I thinking of another board?
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You're wrong!:)

Just look at the poll results, you Internet Forum Philanderer!!!:lol:
 
OK, I like throttling up before brake release. I get a kick in the pants from the 260 ponies up front. Its just plain fun.
 
I do the smooth application thing, but I keep in mind the fact that the takeoff distance charts are based on holding the brakes until full power. Depends on runway length and obstacles.

Bob Gardner
 
p1l0t said:
I would say that the best practice to do a short-field style takeoff most of the time. Now if the tower says "No-delay N12345 cleared-for-takeoff traffic on final." and there is 4,000ft of runway, just make the rolling takeoff. (Although you can always tell the tower your just going wait, don't let the tower rush you into making a mistake)

<---<^>--->
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No argument on using all the runway or even holding the brakes before power up other than the increased risk of sucking debris up into the prop.

However I disagree about climbing out at the best angle of climb speed Vx (perhaps that isn't what you meant) as normal. You should only climb at Vx if you need to clear an obstacle otherwise Vy is much safer. Get your CFI and try some power failures at 10, 25, and 50 feet if you want to see why. Let him know what you are doing before cutting the power if you don't want to bend sheet metal.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
What I found interesting is that I think it was Sparky in one of his books that made a statement along the lines of full power while holding the brakes will not actually shorten the ground roll.

Funny thing though is that if you watch any of the bush pilot competitions, they always hold the brakes while coming up to full power.

Me...I do what Tim does.
 
Neither of your two choices -- answer c) is mine: "it depends."

On a short field, the POH for my Tiger and most other light planes calls for stabilization at full power before brake release, so that's what I do. OTOH, for "normal" ops, I like to stop, run to 1800, check the engine instruments, and then release brakes and smoothly advance power to full -- probably a habit I picked up during 2000 hours in fighters where (carrier ops excepted) we did some variation on that theme for various technical reasons. But when Tower says "immediate," I'm perfectly happy making a rolling takeoff in a light plane while advancing smoothly to full throttle, with a quick check of the engine instruments at about half throttle (roughly 1800 RPM).
 
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It takes less energy to accelerate a moving object than it does a stationary object. Moment of inertia and all. I roll, even on a short field. I roll on a soft field, I roll on a normal field...

 
EdFred said:
It takes less energy to accelerate a moving object than it does a stationary object. Moment of inertia and all. I roll, even on a short field. I roll on a soft field, I roll on a normal field...
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That is exactly how Sparky explains it.....so why don't we see people in the bush competitions for shortest takeoff do that?
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is exactly how Sparky explains it.....so why don't we see people in the bush competitions for shortest takeoff do that?
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Because they have to do a standing start for the competition. They can't roll up to the starting point and keep on going.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I have observed that some prefer to line up on the runway, brakes-on go full power, then release brakes. Others prefer (like me) to ease-in power while rolling. Are there situations where preference becomes procedure (not talking about the obvious short field techique/ procedure)?

Which do you prefer and why?
Click to expand...

In my mighty cherokee 140, I put in full power...not much need to ease in the massive power available from the 160hp engine. I only do the full power/brake release thing for short fields.
 
Third question: Does abort procedure enter your mind when you choose which technique to use?
 
Fearless Tower said:
So that is actually a rule for that manuever? I guess it kind of creates a level playing field. Interesting.
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I ain't read the rules, but if there wasn't one, they would approach the take off point at purd near lift of speed and there wouldn't be much of a contest.

I guess I shoulda put a "?" on the end of my last post...
 
TMetzinger said:
I roll onto the runway, align, and bring the throttle in smoothly. I may stop on the runway as part of the alignment, but I don't hold brakes while bringing in the throttle, unless I'm making a short field takeoff.
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+1. Smooth application of power.
 
EdFred said:
It takes less energy to accelerate a moving object than it does a stationary object. Moment of inertia and all. I roll, even on a short field. I roll on a soft field, I roll on a normal field...
Click to expand...
...except that you're wasting runway while the engine is spooling up. I'm pretty sure the manufacturers have tested this and determined that a full power run-up before brake release gets the shortest takeoff distance without compromising safety by attempting a high-speed turn onto the runway.
 
Ron Levy said:
...except that you're wasting runway while the engine is spooling up. I'm pretty sure the manufacturers have tested this and determined that a full power run-up before brake release gets the shortest takeoff distance without compromising safety by attempting a high-speed turn onto the runway.
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I've done numerous test runs and I'm always off the ground sooner when rolling vs stopped. My 540 also doesn't take much/any time to spool up.
 
COFlyBoy said:
OK, I like throttling up before brake release. I get a kick in the pants from the 260 ponies up front. Its just plain fun.
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It's not much fun for your prop. Full power creates a huge suction that will lift any loose debris and pull it into the prop where it will abrade the leading edges and cause nicks if the debris is bigger than dust. I like to have at least 10-20 KIAS before getting the throttles wide open on takeoff unless the field is short. And if you do that reasonably quickly it only adds about 50 ft to the takeoff.
 
EdFred said:
I've done numerous test runs and I'm always off the ground sooner when rolling vs stopped.
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I gotta remember that...

FAA: Why didn't you do it by the book?
Me: Well, EdFred said on the internet that he tested it himself and found he did better his way.

:rofl:
 
Ron Levy said:
I gotta remember that...

FAA: Why didn't you do it by the book?
Me: Well, EdFred said on the internet that he tested it himself and found he did better his way.

:rofl:
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Ah, no I TEACH it FAA by the book. What I tell students is "come back after your check ride, and I'll show you a better way."
 
Well, it would make an interesting test to do ourselves. The "proper" technique might be driven by other things, like perhaps by standing on the brakes your accelerate-stop distance is shorter (not saying it is) and that may be safer on a short field.
 
TMetzinger said:
Well, it would make an interesting test to do ourselves. The "proper" technique might be driven by other things, like perhaps by standing on the brakes your accelerate-stop distance is shorter (not saying it is) and that may be safer on a short field.
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I know where the FAA is coming from with their technique. It's easily applied to all aircraft, so everyone is teaching the same thing, and all evaluated on the same thing. It does not however get the shortest distance, over other techniques. Shorter than standard take off, yes. Shortest, no.
 
Interesting thread. We do a rolling take off, with a smooth, incremental application of power. (You can always tell the renters by the way they apply power.)

Here's another angle: What do you guys actually DO during the takeoff roll? Because Mary and I almost always fly together, we have developed a strict CRM routine that continues as follows.

Pilot scans the instruments, but his/her primary interest is outside of the plane.

Co-pilots starts:

"Fuel pump on. Door latched. Seat belts on."

This goes back to our days flying with little kids in the back seat. We made them verify that their seat belts were latched.

"6 good bars".

This refers to the JPI EDM-700 engine analyzer, which displays EGT and CHT information for each cylinder. If there isn't 6 EQUAL bars displayed, it's an automatic abort.

"Manifold pressure is good".

Anything under 25 is an abort, at sea level.

"Oil pressure is good".

Must be in the green, or abort.

"Airspeed is alive".

By this point, we are literally seconds away from liftoff.

This has worked well for us over the years. I'm curious if anyone else does it this (or a different) way?
 
I do it very similar to you, Jay. Doors and such are checked at the run-up, then I do a pre-takeoff briefing covering:
The runway
The type of takeoff,
Aborts (when/why)
Where to land if engine failure on climb or at 1000+ feet,
Anything else.

When the power is in, I call "engine green" (oil/fuel/rpm/mp, cht) and then I call "airspeed alive", and then "rotate", "positive rate", "gear up" (if appropriate) and finally "1000 feet, climb checklist". Anything not normal before "rotate" triggers an "abort abort abort" call.

I do this even if I'm the only one in the plane... It focuses my attention where I want it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Here's another angle: What do you guys actually DO during the takeoff roll?
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Look out the windscreen and keep it straight.

Quick blink down to see if the airspeed indicator is alive (usually).

All that other stuff happened during the runup / pre-takeoff check.
 
Jay Honeck said:
"Manifold pressure is good".

Anything under 25 is an abort, at sea level.
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Under 25? What are you flying?

In most non-turbo piston airplanes, MP should be within 1" of field baro at full throttle. If I only had 25 or 26 on a typical day, I would say there is a problem.
 
I also do the pre-takeoff "self-briefing" about what we're doing and where we're going... I think a lot of takeoff accidents are because people just shove the throttle forward and don't have a "flight plan" in mind if the engine quits.

"If the engine quits before 500' AGL, we're landing straight ahead. Above 500' we can turn enough to land in the golf course. At 800' we can return to the runway."

As far as the original question, I usually roll unless I need a full-power static run-up (hard on the prop) in the mountains or I have a very short runway.

Plus, most of the time at KAPA unless you're departing Runway 10, you're usually going to get, "Cleared for takeoff, fly straight out, no delay, XXXX BizJet on a 4 mile final, I'll call your turn."

As soon as you answer the cleared for takeoff call, their next call is to the biz jet to slow them up and point you out to them.

So that whole "we can return to the runway after 800'" is usually Bravo Sierra anyway, with a diesel-powered-lawn-blower flying up your butt. :)

You're probably going in the grass between the runways, or if you're lucky, you can somehow squeeze onto the parallel between the Touch & Go students. The golf course may still be your best option.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Funny thing though is that if you watch any of the bush pilot competitions, they always hold the brakes while coming up to full power.
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I'm not completely sure, but that may be more for the purposes of checking that the airplane is developing expected takeoff power because of limited options after takeoff than an effort to shorten the roll.
 
gismo said:
It's not much fun for your prop. Full power creates a huge suction that will lift any loose debris and pull it into the prop where it will abrade the leading edges and cause nicks if the debris is bigger than dust. I like to have at least 10-20 KIAS before getting the throttles wide open on takeoff unless the field is short. And if you do that reasonably quickly it only adds about 50 ft to the takeoff.
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Bah! I pay a hundred plus dollars an hour to operate the thing simply for my own amusement. What's a few hours off the life of a propellor?

I dropped the plane off at the shop last week for the annual and the guys were giving me crap for the green tips on the prop. I had to mow my way to and from my hangar at my former airport.
 
Fearless Tower said:
So that is actually a rule for that manuever? I guess it kind of creates a level playing field. Interesting.
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Ok, this is your fault. You made me do it.

http://199.238.132.174/events/flyIn/documents/RulesandRegs2011.pdf


Short Field Take‐Off Rules:
1. Taxi into position as directed by the line judge, with main gear stopped on reference
line.
2. Begin take‐off roll after being given the “humbs‐up”by the line judge.
3. Take‐off distance will be measured to where the furthest of any wheel leaves the
ground for the last time.
Short Field Landing Rules:
1. Main gear must land on or beyond the reference line.
2. Main gear touchdown prior to reference line is disqualifying.
3. Tailwheel touchdown prior to reference line is NOT disqualifying.
4. Aircraft must come to a full stop, straight ahead, and remain until judges have had a
chance to measure and clear you from the runway.
5. Landing distance will be measured from the reference line to the main gear once
stopped.
Click to expand...

6. Return to staging area for second attempt and park after second attempt.
​
​

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​
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