Tailwheel landing tips

FlylikeaGirl

FlylikeaGirl

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Tiffany
I'm a pretty new pilot and am working toward my tailwheel endorsement.

I am still not very consistent with my landings. Besides practice, does anyone have any tips on tailwheel airplane landings?

I know this is a thing I will just have to get a feel for, but thought I would tap into the collective knowledge here, too.

Thanks!
Tiffany
 
No difference. Near as I can tell, a three point is pretty much just like a "normal" nosedragger landing. So don't over think it. (But, I do admit that my nosewheel experience is limited.)

The hard part is setting it down smoothly - just like with a nosewheel. After that, the difference is that you have to keep it straight yourself. (OK, you really want to touch down straight too.)

A couple little things, hold it at the three point attitude before touchdown, get the stick all the way back once the tail is down, releasing the pressure on the pedals doesn't stop a turn.
 
Yeah, don't ball up the airplane. The rest is just style points. :) A timely application of full power is your best friend when a landing or landing roll starts going south. You've asked a pretty wide open question. Anything more specific?
 
I find that for 3 pt, don't try and land the plane. Try and fly just above the runway, and keep it flying in a 3pt attitude. It will land when its ready and not bounce. Keep the airspeed to a safe minimum to avoid float. If I try and rush it or put it down myself, it will bounce. Keeping it smooth and straight comes with practice. If its been a while, my first landing can be feel a little "darty". After that, I get use to the pedals quickly and they feel much smoother. Stick all the way back once all three are on the ground.

For a wheel landing, I like a touch of power to slow the sink rate and give me a touch more rudder authority. Some don't like any power. Again, don't try and land it, try and just keep the mains from touch, then forward stick the second they touch. If you try and make the mains touch, you have a good chance of bouncing.

My 2c.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What airplane are you flying?
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and grass or asphalt? on Asphalt I try to land mains first by just a little bit, and on grass its usually three point or tailwheel first by just a few seconds. Keep it pointed down the runway and keep paying attention. You'll get it! Where are you training at? Red Stewart?
 
What problems or inconsistencies are you having. Really not enough information to help.
 
First thing to do while sitting on the ground, ingrain that attitude sight picture into your mind - the angle of the windows in relation to the turf. That will help you to attain the proper attitude when flared to land 3 point. After that just remember to keep "flying" the airplane even after you have "landed" it.

It's not nearly as tough as many people make it out to be.
 
haha- ok, ok. Not enough information-- I get it. I am flying a Champ. I am on a grass strip (40I). I generally will let the plane settle, pull back on the stick, balloon, hesitate on the stick, then relaize I need to keep pulling back, bounce (I'm cringing a little right now), then actually land. My second landings are great. I just need to figure out how to do it the first time. I'm pretty good at keeping it straight and keeping my speed at 60, so I think it might be my depth perception.

Thanks for the other tips. Got a good smile and laugh out of some of them. :)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No difference. Near as I can tell, a three point is pretty much just like a "normal" nosedragger landing. So don't over think it. (But, I do admit that my nosewheel experience is limited.)

The hard part is setting it down smoothly - just like with a nosewheel. After that, the difference is that you have to keep it straight yourself. (OK, you really want to touch down straight too.)

A couple little things, hold it at the three point attitude before touchdown, get the stick all the way back once the tail is down, releasing the pressure on the pedals doesn't stop a turn.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I will keep practicing. I am confident that I will get it, but I can't help being a little frustrated with myself.
 
VanDy said:
and grass or asphalt? on Asphalt I try to land mains first by just a little bit, and on grass its usually three point or tailwheel first by just a few seconds. Keep it pointed down the runway and keep paying attention. You'll get it! Where are you training at? Red Stewart?
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Sorry, you guys. I added more info below (er, above) and yes I am at Red Stewart! I love that place so much! Not to sound too cheesy but it really just is the embodiment of real aviators for me.
 
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PilotRPI said:
I find that for 3 pt, don't try and land the plane. Try and fly just above the runway, and keep it flying in a 3pt attitude. It will land when its ready and not bounce. Keep the airspeed to a safe minimum to avoid float. If I try and rush it or put it down myself, it will bounce. Keeping it smooth and straight comes with practice. If its been a while, my first landing can be feel a little "darty". After that, I get use to the pedals quickly and they feel much smoother. Stick all the way back once all three are on the ground.

For a wheel landing, I like a touch of power to slow the sink rate and give me a touch more rudder authority. Some don't like any power. Again, don't try and land it, try and just keep the mains from touch, then forward stick the second they touch. If you try and make the mains touch, you have a good chance of bouncing.

My 2c.
Click to expand...

This is really good info. Thank you!
 
If you are +5 on approach you had best do a wheel landing. That's the advantage tailwheels get you over trikes, the ability to take a high speed landing.
 
FlylikeaGirl said:
haha- ok, ok. Not enough information-- I get it. I am flying a Champ. I am on a grass strip (40I). I generally will let the plane settle, pull back on the stick, balloon, hesitate on the stick, then relaize I need to keep pulling back, bounce (I'm cringing a little right now), then actually land. My second landings are great. I just need to figure out how to do it the first time. I'm pretty good at keeping it straight and keeping my speed at 60, so I think it might be my depth perception.

Thanks for the other tips. Got a good smile and laugh out of some of them. :)
Click to expand...

What is your target speed? Go up and and set the trim for for that speed in a glide, then you use the throttle to meet the glide slope. In both the AgCat light and the PA-12 were 70 MPH for wheelies.
 
I set whatever I need for a 300fpm descent and a level pitch, sometimes I'm hotter. Sometimes I'll add a couple hundred RPM to arrest descent while maintaining attitude. If I'm transitional, I'm better kicking in a little slip and get her down three point. It's those 'tweeners' that will nip at your heals, sometimes they bite lol, especially if you don't take care of your tail wheel. Get a locking tailwheel. If you have a locking tailwheel, you have a heck of a lot of leverage above 30 kts to keep you from coming around. At least keep any detaint swivel in good shape with tight chains and preloaded springs.
 
Just put the plane 6 inches over the runway and try to stay there as long as you can. Don't try to force it into the 3pt attitude.
 
Got my TW Endorsement at Red Stewart this summer with Joe Smith. Your experience was very similar to mine (and probably anyone else;)). After getting the use of rudder firmly in place in my head and using my peripheral vision for judging height above the grass, it became second nature. As others have saod, don't land it, let it land itself by gradually easing back on the stick, be on speed and when it's done flying, keep the stick firmly in your lap. BTW, Slipping in over the tree across the road from the end of 26 is a blast.

Just a hint, when Joe takes you over to Middletown, you are just about done. :D

That Champ has seen many many bounces so just relax and be smooth but firm on the control inputs.

Cheers
 
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Late to the party, but...

...I have about 1,500 hrs tailwheel time, much of it teaching a tailwheel transition course in one of two Citabrias at Opa Locka and Hollywood, FL.

So, some pointers, a couple already touched upon.

1) I found the best, slowest and least dramatic touchdowns were ones where the tailwheel rolled on slightly first, and then the main dropped maybe 6" or so to the runway. In those, the plane was essentially done flying. In the 3-point attitude there was still some lift left and there was a "skittery" period of a few seconds after touchdown while things settled down. And, if the 3-point was misjudged by even a little and the mains touched first, things could get exciting in a hurry.

As such, I encouraged my students to forget about the 3-point attitude, and just keep holding the plane off as long as possible while feeling for the runway with the tailwheel. That mental image also works for me!

2) One common incident is for the student to make a near-perfect touchdown, putting me in a position to compliment him or her on a job well done, but before I can, he or she relaxes back pressure, allowing the tailwheel to unload and the plane to head for the bushes. At that point "I got it" as I get the stick back (if possible to save the landing) or go full power and lift the tail up into the prop wash, to either go around or slow back down and plant the tailwheel where it belongs.

My advice here is that if the tail is up, like in wheel landing or takeoff, things are fine because the rudder is effective at keeping the plane straight. On the other hand, if the tail is down the tailwheel takes over to perform the same function. It's in that in-between nether region of tail neither up nor down that things can get scary in a hurry.

One thing that I found helps keep the stick back is for the student to reach over with their left hand (in a Citabria) and help hold the stick back. Not that it requires any strength, but the right hand can seem to have a mind of its own, relaxing back pressure after touchdown almost as a reflex.

3) I found I can make a much better wheel landing if I touch down one wheel slightly first. With the springy gear on the Citabria, I seemed much less likely to bounce back in the air. With a crosswind, it should be de rigeur, yet I found myself doing it even without a crosswind. For me as an instructor used to looking to the right for visual cues, I found in a no-wind situation I would still roll the right main on first. This may be a bad habit, but it worked for me.

In any case, any internet advice should be run by your instructor before you just start trying stuff on your own. In any case, once you have full stall tailwheel landings nailed, you may very well find the same technique works very well with the average nose dragger as well.

Good luck, and let us know what helped thing click for you!
 
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FastEddieB said:
In any case, once you have full stall tailwheel landings nailed, you may very well find the same technique works very well with the average nose dragger as well.
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Truer words were never spoken. :yes:

Cheers
 
whifferdill said:
Yeah, don't ball up the airplane. The rest is just style points. :) A timely application of full power is your best friend when a landing or landing roll starts going south.
Click to expand...

I found that out after bouncing and hopping like a kangaroo during my TW training:lol:.

Took me awhile to wrap my head around pushing the stick forward after the mains touch, during wheel landings. Once I learned how to arrest my sink rate, things got a lot better.
 
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Use your power. Leave about 100 to 200 rpm during flare and touchdown.
The propwash over the rudder and elevator will give you much more control authority .
Sure, you'll float further, but for the training, this gives more time to manipulate the controls to get the flare and touchdown with more directional control.
I normally use a little power in strong gusty xwinds, but also for training value in initially learning control feel.
 
FastEddieB said:
I found I can make a much better wheel landing if I touch down one wheel slightly first.
Click to expand...

That works well. Instead of bouncing back into the air, the CG will just roll the airplane level.

With the Champ, as with most taildraggers, bouncing a three-pointer usually means it was allowed to touch down too soon and the higher speed meant that the tailwheel was still landing after the mains. The tail comes down, nose goes up, and it flies away. The oleo-geared Champ really hates being in that no-man's land between three-pointing and a tail-high wheel landing.

The Champ also has a habit of tailwheel shimmy with two on board and full aft stick. It usually needs a new tailspring set. The springs get flattened after awhile and the pivot axis tilts forward and becomes unstable.

Dan
 
Landing at a 2000 foot runway ( for an example) in a champ. Come across the fence at 60-65 mph, ( you may be a little slower as you get better) trim back a little from neutral, or you may forget and leave it neutral. Simply keep it about 2-3 feet off the runway, throttle closed, coming back gently on the stick. Eventually it will three point (stall) and drop several inches onto the runway. Ideally , the tail wheel and the mains should touch together. At this point, the stick is full back in your lap. The champ gear Oleos cover a lot of sins. It is a very easy airplane to fly and land once you get some time in it. Practice is the key, over and over. Wheel landings come next, when you have some time built and have more confidence. You should feel at ease both on asphalt or grass but grass is easier in a taildragger. If you become accustomed to good landings in the champ, other taildraggers will not present a problem nor will trigear aircraft. I transitioned years ago from a champ to a mooney. It was very easy. ( if you land it perfectly, you won't feel it touch!)
 
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lr60plt said:
Just put the plane 6 inches over the runway and try to stay there as long as you can. Don't try to force it into the 3pt attitude.
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The advantage to landings in tail draggers is you have two different landing techniques/speed sets.
 
Henning said:
The advantage to landings in tail draggers is you have two different landing techniques/speed sets.
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She seemed to be asking about a 3pt...and that's what my comment was in reference to. It doesn't seem writing a paragraph about wheel landing would help anything at this point.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
Simply keep it about 2-3 feet off the runway, throttle closed, coming back gently on the stick. Eventually it will three point (stall) and drop several inches onto the runway. Ideally , the tail wheel and the mains should touch together.
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It doesn't stall. It just develops a good sink. The AoA isn't high enough for a stall in the three-point attitude; the chord is only at around 12 degrees. Stall is at 17.

The net effect is the same.

I used to approach in the Champ at 55.

Dan
 
Do your landings seem to better when landing to the west at 40I? When landing east I try and either land and get it real slow on the plateau or land on the slope. That will get you everytime and the drop off makes it interesting with your flare too!

Keep at it, you'll get it!

40I is a great place!
 
Three pointing I'll typically tag tailwheel first, that way when the mains tag the will will have quit flying and the settled a couple degrees beyond to give a more solid plant.

I didn't read it as asking about three pointing, I read it as general advice with a TW.
 
VanDy said:
Do your landings seem to better when landing to the west at 40I? When landing east I try and either land and get it real slow on the plateau or land on the slope. That will get you everytime and the drop off makes it interesting with your flare too!

Keep at it, you'll get it!

40I is a great place!
Click to expand...

+1. I usually add a little power and fly past the drop off just for practice in controlling touch down point. ;)

Cheers
 
The Stearman was fun to land that way. Martin state is around 7000 feet. Bringing the Stearman just past the numbers, stick all the way back, add just enough throttle to keep it flying and cruise up the runway to the turnoff at the tower, chop the throttle, drop onto the runway gently and turn off onto the parking area. A Stearman does not float, without power it drops quickly. Heavy. No ground effect at all. And yes......the net effect IS the same. I call it a stall. It is through flying when it drops.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
No ground effect at all. And yes......the net effect IS the same. I call it a stall. It is through flying when it drops.
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I never consider any airplane done flying until it's parked. I've seen too many pilots almost lose the airplane in the rollout because they thought it was done flying. It's not stalled even in the three-point attitude, and therefore the wings are still generating lift. If one was able to measure the load on the wheels, he'd see that the weight on them is still minor while the airplane is rolling or even sitting still in a stronger headwind. As long as there's laminar flow over those wings, they're taking some weight, and things can get ugly even in a trike if the pilot thinks the flight is over.

Just watch sometime as airplanes are coming and going in a crosswind. See how many fail to keep aileron into the wind after touchdown. Too many will neutralize them right after touchdown.

Dan
 
A low time tail dragger pilot can get into trouble quickly doing wheel landings. The airplane is not done when only the mains have touched. It's still got lots of energy left. As the tail comes down , rudder effect is lessened and trouble begins if the pilot is not hep to this. The brakes can help a lot provided you use them correctly, ( quick little stabs at them only!) during this transition and as the plane slows, by keeping it straight, especially in a cross wind. Practice, practice practice. I owned both a Stearman and a 195 and they both required undivided attention on landing. Wheel landings in either are after you really know the airplane WELL! To avoid big trouble, I always tried to three point them. I have around 3500 hours in tail wheels but I never flew one that " preferred " wheel landings. While 3500 is not a great deal of time, I was and am pretty good at it....( if you ground loop a 195, chances are you will collapse the gear case, then a prop strike occurs. At this point, unless you have lots of insurance or big dough, you may as well sell it for parts or junk it.)
 
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