Survey: Who does maintenance/mechanical work on your A/C?

[Toby]

Good morning, everyone,

Diana's thread about installing a hooker harness reminded me that I've been wondering how many people do their own maintenance and mechanical work on their aircraft, and how many send it out. It seems that the more I delve into possible ownership, or talk to people who already own airplanes, the more I hear of people doing a lot of their own work -- installing, repairing, changing the oil, whatever needs to be done. Some do the work on their own and get signed off at the end, and others assist at annuals and work under supervision of an A&P. Others stand by and learn by watching. A lot of people just bring the plane in and pick it up at the end.

I have some abilities, but engine know-how is not one of them. I was not lucky enough to grow up on a farm or in a family who took apart and repaired cars. My dad did carpentry and could take the vaccuum cleaner apart and put it together again, so I know how to use some tools, I can hang pictures, and I can figure out problems in small machines like vaccuum cleaners. Beyond that, I don't know much about engines other than what I've learned from flight training, heard about from other pilots, or helped out with when hanging out with my mechanic friend at the airport.

How many of you use a mechanic for all your work? Are you happy with that solution? What kind of airplane do you have?

How many of you do the work on your own? How did you learn what to do and how to do it? How closely are you supervised? What kind of airplane do you work on?

When you bought your plane, did it make a difference to you whether the previous owner(s) had done their own work or had had mechanics doing everything? I am finding, as I look, that certain types of airplanes seem to have a history of owner maintenance, and others have a history of A&P maintenance.

At my airport, I know people who do at least some of their own work, but most people here use a mechanic for just about everything. I don't know if this is true everywhere. I don't know if this comes from caution, over-caution, or is just because they can afford it. The mechanics, of course, are biased in favor of people using mechanics.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Len Lanetti]

Toby,

I generally let a mechanic do all the work on my aircraft. I have some mechanical skills but I lack the time to do much work on the aircraft. I have been present when some work gets done and have done some tasks like open inspection panels and put them back on after the inspection is complete.

Note that there is an approved list of items a pilot owner of an aircraft can perform without requiring an A&P signoff on the work. Some of it is simple stuff that the average person can do with a screwdriver without too much fear. For example, changing a landing light. I would think that the average person could do this without too much harm as long as it is attempted with the engine shut down. The items are listed in Appendix A FAR Part 43 and I'll paste it here.

Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.

(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.

(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.

(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.

(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.

(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.

(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.

(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.

(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required.

(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.

(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.

(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere with proper air flow.

(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.

(14) Replacing safety belts.

(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.

(16) Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.

(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.

(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation is involved.

(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection of flight controls.

(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.

(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.

(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.

(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.

(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.

(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the balloon manufacturer's instructions.

(26) Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations.

(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and installation.

(28) The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a part of the aircraft type certificiate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of the existing tank filler opening.

(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.

(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:

(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under §147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under §21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and

(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.

(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

(32) Updating self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted Air Traffic Control (ATC) navigational software data bases (excluding those of automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)) provided no disassembly of the unit is required and pertinent instructions are provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, an operational check must be performed in accordance with applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

 

[gibbons]

How many of you use a mechanic for all your work? Are you happy with that solution? What kind of airplane do you have?

Hey Toby,
On the A36 I have a partner and our agreement is that neither of us will do any maintenance at all. No oil changes, nothing. I don't want to be at 200 1/2 wondering if he did the safety wire on the oil filter correctly. Works for us.

On the Extra (which I own by myself) I will only remove panels and cowlings, the mechanic does everything else. When you get a chance to ride in the Extra you'll thank me for leaving the maintenance to the professionals.

When you bought your plane, did it make a difference to you whether the previous owner(s) had done their own work or had had mechanics doing everything?

Absolutely! I'm looking for a Citabria right now and after damage history the next two things I look for is who has done the maintenance and has it been running mogas.

I think of it this way.... think about whatever it is you do for a living and just picture your mechanic doing it. Probably not a pretty picture. So even though I'm pretty mechanically inclined I can't picture myself doing what my trained, professional mechanic does and then hanging my life on the line. No thanks. No doubt I'm in the minority on this one, but what else is new?

Chip

ps... great question. Wouldn't this make a good survey?

 

[Barry W]

I'm certified to do my own maintenance on the airplane I built. I built it to learn about how airplanes are built and it is a simple airplane. I do not do maintenance that involves interior parts of the engine nor opening up any of the avionics. I consult with an A & P on anything that might be unusual. Building an airplane is supposed to be educational and maintaining it should be too.


Barry

 

[Len Lanetti]

Building Own Aircraft

Barry,

From your avatar it appears that you built a Kit Fox. At one time I really wanted to build one of those. What model did you build? What engine?

I wanted to build one and put it on amphibious floats but now I'm thinking about building a Sea Ray instead.

Actually, my thoughts are to build two of them with my two boys once they get a little bit older. My hope is that spending time with dad building planes will help keep them out of trouble.

Len

 

[Mark S]

I will do some work on my plane. Oil changes, opening it up for the annual, closing it up after the annual, rotating spark plugs, greasing wheel bearings, changing tires, etc. I pretty much know my limitations and when I get close to that limit, let my A&P know about it and he will check behind me. Nothing that needs to be signed off gets done without my A&P thoroughly inspecting my work.

My plane just came out of annual (the first since I owned it). During the annual I opened up the plane, removed the interior, lubricated the controls, cleaned and greased the wheel bearings, changed the oil, rebuilt the shimmy damper, cleaned, gapped and rotated the spark plugs, tightened up the intake tubes on the engine, removed and reinstalled the spinner, checked the ELT, helped bleed the brakes, closed it up, reinstalled the interior, assisted with the compression check, and assisted with swinging the gear.

The cost savings was minimal, but the knowledge gained was very valuable.

Mark

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Toby -

The local shop at N99 does all the mechanical work on my Cherokee, and minor work (batterty, oil changes, etc.) on our R22 -- anything else on the R22 is done up at the Robinson service center at MPO (where, sadly, it still is, getting new tail rotor pitch links).

I don't trust my mechanical work enough to fly something I worked on...

I do like to be present after the Cherokee is opened up for an annual.

 

[Eamon]

I do all of my own stuff with someone close by to sign off.

So far I have done a lot of sheet metal work, 3 complete avionics panel installs, a cylinder swap & many more stuff.

No way I could afford to pay for it all.

Eamon

 

[Len Lanetti]

Toby -

The local shop at N99 does all the mechanical work on my Cherokee, and minor work (batterty, oil changes, etc.) on our R22

Bob,

Do you use Tom at Flight Dynamics or the new shop?

Tom is putting the engine in my Mooney, hopefully as we speak.

Len

 

[Don Jones]

The poll needs one more category. I do all my own maintenance and repairs under the supervision of a certificated mechanic.
Don

 

[Greebo]

Ask and ye shall receive

 

[fgcason]

Good morning, everyone,
How many of you do the work on your own? How did you learn what to do and how to do it? How closely are you supervised? What kind of airplane do you work on?

Survey needs another category: Do everything myself and have a mechanic supervise/instruct/signoff as needed.

Unlike you I did grow up on a farm in the summers so I got into fixing things early on. Mechanical things are no big deal as long as I have the tools and a shop manual.
When we had problems or issues that fell under owner maintence on the Cherokee (180C), I was the one that got to fix it. I did go through everything the first time with our mechanic to make sure I knew what I was doing. On stuff I couldn't work on, I did what I could to be there to have the mechanic supervise/instruct while I did the actual work as far as he would allow and he signed it off. He was all over me while I was initially learning but he relaxed a bit as he got comfortable with my skills. He was still very strict on how far I could proceed before he inspected things or wanted to be there to watch and he was always in the hangar with me even on simple stuff. I could take things apart myself all day long but he was there when it went back together. I also went through a couple annuals helping him do the deed as much as I could though I probably ended up in the way more than I was useful but I learned lots about the plane.

For me I'm not comfortable having other people work on just about anything I can fix myself. Call it a trust issue or bad experiences or just wanting to make sure it's done exactly like it's supposed to be done above minimum standards or __________. The only way I can know it's done right is if I'm the one turning the wrenches. No one touches my ground vehicles anymore on anything I can fix myself (alignment and tire balancing is about it and even then I supervise them from 50 feet away max). For airplanes, my next move is to get my A&P. They can touch it when I can't do it myself or know it's better left to specialists (propellers for instance).

IMHO: The more an owner is involved in the inner workings of their plane by getting dirty, the better the relationship with the mechanic and the less problems you will have in the long run because you fix things before they become a problem. And when you do eventually break down 150 miles from home, a phone diagnosis will go a lot further to help the mechanic show up with the right part a couple days later. BTDT.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Bob,

Do you use Tom at Flight Dynamics or the new shop?

Tom is putting the engine in my Mooney, hopefully as we speak.

Len

The new shop, Len. So far they have a great reputation. I've only had minor work done there so far, but they're doing my annual later this month.

 

[Ghery]

Yet another category -

I belong to a club and they hire a mechanic to maintain our aircraft. Write up the squawk and it is fixed.

 

[Anthony]

I just fly the thing. I don't know what makes 'em run.

Actually, I try to be around as much as possible when maintenance is performed and have done an owner assisted annual in the past. I'd like to do that again if I can spare the time when my plane goes in at the end of this month.

 

[gismo]

I've participated in the maintenance of my airplanes in about every way possible for someone with no A&P cert. I've done most of the PM stuff allowed by the regs. I've also worked alongside my mechanic on the annuals when I have the time and have learned a lot that way. I had mechanic type experience with other vehicles and engines before becoming involved Even so, I normally get an experienced A&P to show me or at least explain how to do any task I'm not completely sure of.

I also know a few freelance A&P's and AI's that will work with me on things not included in Part 43 Appendix A.

There are some useful reference materials available for anyone contemplating working on their own airplane.

ASA has a couple books:

http://www.asa2fly.com/AB2012000Store/product1.asp?SID=1&Product_ID=589&
http://www.asa2fly.com/AB2012000Store/product1.asp?SID=1&Product_ID=464&

And the parts manual plus the shop manual should be part of your library in some form.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

On the A-36, I do some things like oil changes; just changed the battery. I general, some owner authorized work. Mechanic and avionics shop do the rest. Even if I had the inclination, I don't have time to do anything real difficult. I've tried to do the supervised thing once or twice to find I needed a part on the weekend when the parts shop was closed: so much for that.

Best,

Dave S

 

[Gary]

I try to do as much as possible with (of course) the help/advice of my A&P. Even just doing the preventitive maint. stuff can save a few bucks and will decrease surprises come annual time. I won't touch avionics (yet!) but most other stuff is pretty straightforward. The engines are pretty basic, my Honda is far more complicated. I was amazed at how easy it is to change out a cylinder, really...is that all that holds it on? It fun and also therapy.

Gary

 

[jaxpilot]

Well, I used to only have the certified mechanics do all the work. Then I got screwed by a shop based at RYY, three letter acronymn for a name, but I wont mention it. $18,000 for an engine pull and replace, and an annual. Very expensive lessons learned there.

Then switched mechanics, and got hosed again. Switched again and got hosed again. This is getting kinda old, and very expensive. I thought I was not very handy, but realized that I can turn a screwdriver and a wrench.

Then came the onboard fire, and that changed my thinking a lot. Pulled the interior out, and spent a month cleaning dry chemical fire extinguishant (is that a word?) out of the plane. Learned another expensive lesson - monoammonium phosphate, used in dry chems ((NH4)H2PO4) - is very corrosive to aluminium and magnesium. I went through that plane tip to tail, cleaning, scrubbing, scraping, removing old adhesive, yada yada yada. Stripped, cleaned, alodined, chromated, you name it, it was redone. I have been up and down the tailcone, in and out and under the panel, the works. I know that plane inside and out. Installed the new interior myself and got the mechanic to sign it off.

Now, finally, I have found an excellent mechanic. He has taught me, worked with me, and does great work. He is willing to let me do stuff that I can do under his supervision, and will inspect and sign off all the work that I do. Oil changes and cosmetics I do, anything else gets his signoff. I am getting better and better. I do a lot of the troubleshooting of problems, identify root cause if I can. and prepare the fix. Then he comes in, listens to my diagnosis, and implements the fix. This way, I pay him to fix stuff, not try and figure out what is wrong. Now, I have friends that know me, come by the airport and fall out laughing because I actually have a toolbox. But you learn fast, and I think now that I am more confident in my aircraft because I know exactly who turned what screw, and why, and watch every minute of maintenance that is performed on the plane.

Get involved, find a good mechanic, and learn from him, and work with him. You will never regret it.

I have had a long saga with this plane, but have finally gotten over the new owner hump. I have had no unscheduled maintenance since September, except for having him dress out the prop a couple of weeks ago. Thank god. I was averaging over $18,000 in unscheduled maintenance over the last 2 years, in addition to all the elective surgery I did.

 

[bbchien]

My guy, with whom I had the same realtionship, just retired. Bummer.

 

[Henning]

I do all my own work on my planes (when I own them) and then have it signed off by A&Ps or IAs who know the quality of my work (many of them have farmed work out to me) and have no problems because they know my work will meet or exceed applicable standards and that I won't pull any hokey crap because it's my rear in the plane. Enough stuff happens in the natural course of life, I don't need to build in time bombs. If I had to pay mechanics and shops, there is no way I could afford airplanes. Multiply that with I don't trust 90% of the mechanics I meet to do a proper job, you see why I do my own work. Although I answered your survey "don't need no stinkin' rules", it's not technically correct since all the work is properly signed off, I am rarely " under the supervision of an A&P", so I figured it was the closest answer.

 

[C-1 PILOT]

I've got 2 mechanic (A&P/IA) who work on my plane with me. They are also pilots and enjoy flying as payback. For complicated work I use Flying Tigers in Marrietta Pa (outside Lancaster) as they have a full shop. They worked on my Grummans when I owned them, I trust them.

 

[John J]

I am very lucky; My partner and I work on it together. He has an AI. I get to learn alot and enjoy working on the plane.

John J

 

[Stache]

I would like to introduce myself not to scare anyone off. I am Stache from the Babes Board who happens to work for the Dark Side (Oakland FSDO as a maintenance Inspector). I am an A&P/IA mechanic and writer of a free maintenance news letter called "The Aviator" located at http://www.navioneer.org Look under the forms and maintenance section there is 5 years of back issues. If you read my posts you will find out I am out to provide information and assistance to aviators or anyone who will accept it. I am not here to point fingers at anyone or turn anyone in to their local FEDs.



I like your question because I like owners who know how their flying machine works. And even better if they work on it under the direct supervision of an A&P. Just remember if you perform maintenance even under the supervision of an A&P your name should be in the return-to-service along the mechanic’s.




Stache

 

[pete177]

I'll bet there are some really skilled and trustworthy A&P's out there. So far, out of the 15 or so I've come in contact with only 2 were not:
1. Clueless, or
2. Pretending to be clueless to suck more money out of you.
So, I do as much of my own as I am able and verify/inspect everything done by the A&P. Dropping the keys off with your local shop and expecting them to "take care of you" is a recipe for disaster, either financially or safety related. I'd bet there are shops out there that will be responsible about your safety and be pro-active about finding you the lower cost solutions, but I've only found one so far.

 

[Tim]

If I didn't do all my own maintenance, I would not be able to afford to fly. Can't afford insurance either. I heard the price of AVGAS is 3.25 so I probably won't be able to afford that any more, either. I will be using straight unleaded now, and that is 2.10 here now. I make about 60g per year. Paid 500 dollars for one month of fuel oil this winter and we have some long winters.

 

[JohnL]

Since every maintenance period for our helicopters is also a required inspection (50-hour per HMI, 100-hour per FAA & HMI), all the work is done by "our" certified mechanic (we are also a Schweizer dealership). I personally will: change bulbs, clean plugs, replace broken zip-ties, and whatever other minor maintenance issues come up.

 

[Graueradler]

I do nearly all work under the supervison of a qualified mechanic. This included engine rebuild.

 

[sierra]

When it was just me and the plane, I had a great mechanic in the south. I did ~80 percent of the work with him looking over me. The other twenty percent was stuff i wouldn't be able to get to, or physically not strong enough to do (although he did yell at me once for tightening something to tightly with my fingers ). There was another guy there who used to work for Grumman who trained me and worked with me on some of the easier, common stuff.

Now, I don't know the mechanic out here, so probably he'll do the work until I can get a feel for how well we'll interact. I guess when I get to the point of being ready to take care of stuff, i'll figure it out then.

 

[DeeG]

Don't know about osme of you, but I LOVE helping out the IA/AP when there's things to be done. I learn sooo much about our planes by helping with the annuals. etc. I got to cut a couple of new inspection holes in the Stinson two years ago (taking an exacto knife to the plane about killed me......), I learned: how to take apart a mag and put it back together, what innergranular corrosion looks like and how to replace an entire main gear on a 150, how to remove the Goodyear brakes from a Stinson and replace with Cleveland, how to install VG's on both planes, and a lot of other neato things. Not that I can REMEMBER how to do some of them...but it's nice to be able to understand a bit more about the plane and how not to be 'afraid' of getting your hands dirty. The constant reassuances from the IA...."well, go ahead and take it apart, see what's inside, figure out what makes it run, and I'll show you how to put it back together and reinstall it on the plane". The man has the patience of a saint.

AND, The Cessna just came out of annual, the bearings for the Stinson just came in, and the engine is being put back together AGAIN. wooo hoo, i may be able to go flying this week!