SureFly Electronic Mag - who has one?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by WannFly, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,564
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Priyo
    anyone on POA has the certificated magneto replacement from SureFly? i am looking at SIM4P https://www.surefly.aero/products.

    my Slick mags are coming up for IRAN/OH in the upcoming annual and wondering if i should just change the impulse coupled one with the SureFly one. what does POA say? My understanding is if my battery is dead and i am at a podunk airport, i cant start which i can probably leave with (until i am stuck at the aforementioned podunk airport...)

    Engine Time: 1100 hrs, Lycoming O-360 A4M, 180HP
     
  2. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    I would not choose to be a roll-out customer for something like that.

    One thing I discovered with the first EI on my RV-6 was that in an AOG situation, there are mag parts (and whole working mags) at a lot of airports around the country. Parts and replacement units for a new EI, fielded in relatively small numbers? Bwhahaa...
     
    WannFly likes this.
  3. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,649
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    Electronics don’t do well with heat and vibration. I’m not convinced they will be more reliable.
    Anyone in the experimental side have used these?
    I would think the EIS 41000 would be better?


    Tom
     
  4. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    What’s the problem you’re trying to solve?
     
    Ravioli likes this.
  5. Flybuddy

    Flybuddy Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Messages:
    180
    Location:
    Fort Myers FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Flybuddy
    Although it just got certified, they have been in experimentals for years. Fairly basic stuff since they use aviation plugs and the Slick cap and harness. I was awaiting the STC to purchase and not concerned about the newness to certified, especially since the FAA really put them through the wringer. The reason I'm NOT currently purchasing is that they only got approved for the fixed timing version which gives absolutely no improvement over a mag. It's an easy switch over when they do get the advanced approval (dipswitches and adding a manifold pressure tube). Unfortunately it took so long for their initial certification that it's worrisome when they might get the advanced approval.
     
    WannFly likes this.
  6. Raymo

    Raymo Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    Richmond Hill
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Raymo
  7. simtech

    simtech En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,697
    Location:
    mississippi
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Simtech
    Hard call..if I had a new overhauled engine I'd spring for it. But like me with a mid time engine I can have both mags IRAN'd for still cheaper than that. And if you buy that one then you still have to IRAN the other so now your talking close to $2k. But again I'm cheap..hehe and I believe I read at on point they still require an OH at some point...right? If so how much is that?
     
  8. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    PALH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ES
  9. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,564
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Priyo
    IRAN/OH every 500 hrs for 2 mags
     
  10. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,564
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Priyo
    Think they say you need to change a few things at engine OH, I am not entirely sure what all. Trying to find someone who actually installed one in certificated one
     
  11. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    I've got one on my Continental IO550.

    Works fine. I can't see any speed improvement but I did see about .5 GPH less fuel flow for the same speed.
     
    WannFly likes this.
  12. bkspero

    bkspero Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    446
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    bkspero
    There have been several reports by Grumman AA5x owners on the Grumman Forum. All have been favorable although one did report engine stumbling when switching from the standard mag to the Surefly module during runup. Apparently the issue is that it takes 3 revolutions for the Surefly module to resume operation and in one case it caused a stumble when the standard mag switches off before the Surefly module starts working.

    Install reports are that it is quick and easy. There are already some YouTube install videos up. None have enough time to judge reliability.

    As for OH, it is my understanding that there is none. The Instructions for Continued Airworthiness calls for units to be returned to Surefly for evaluation in the event of a prop strike, engine overhaul, lightning strike, fire, or water damage, failed magneto check, or 2400 hours of operation. If it fails, it needs to be replaced. There is no option to repair or overhaul.
     
    WannFly likes this.
  13. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,787
    Location:
    New Bern, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Reno
    I still think that in time, everybody will have one of these on their aircraft.
     
  14. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,936
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    Old test pilot's mantra --- "Never fly the A model of ANYTHING."

    Jim
     
    Chip Sylverne likes this.
  15. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    23,058
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    I look forward to the day that I can have TWO of these on my aircraft, and quit sending mags out for overhauls.
     
  16. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    It ain't a free ride. Dual EI's generally means installing a much more robust electrical system in your aircraft. Mag rebuilds every few years might look cheap once you went down the road of dual batteries, dual alternators, and all of the accompanying rewiring.
     
  17. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,649
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    You are assuming they don’t break and are as dependable as magnetos, that could be a bad assumption.


    Tom
     
  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    6,920
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    IRAN every 500 hrs isn't that bad. The inspection can go just peachy and it gets returned to service. Odds of TWO needing OH or replacement on the same cycle? I dunno, low.

    All that said I have dual electronic ignition. So what do I know about mag maintenance anyway.
     
    WannFly likes this.
  19. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    23,058
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    I already have dual batteries. I'll probably consider getting a second alternator once our panel goes all-electric. I'm sure it'll weigh less than the entire DUAL vacuum system I already have! (regular engine-driven vac pump plus electric backup vac pump)

    So, yeah, I don't really mind the idea of a more robust electrical system.

    Also, I believe at least some of the electronic ignition systems have their own built-in generating system to avoid these issues.

    Dependable? Magnetos? :no:

    How many other components of the airplane need to be tested for every flight and removed from the aircraft for overhaul every 500 hours? I would say that the mags are one of the least dependable parts of the airplane... And yes, I've had one fail.

    Here in the cold country, the nylon drive gears tend to get brittle from being really cold in winter and then exposed to the heat of the engine, so they tend to lose teeth or just get completely shredded. If they lose teeth, you don't necessarily even know it until your next flight because while they're running there's enough momentum to "skip" the missing teeth in some cases, so it's not until you shut down and then try to restart that they quit.
     
  20. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,325
    Location:
    State of Confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chartbundle
    The (still vapor) solution from ElectroAir for those of us with siamese mags was going to include its own alternator, which could also provide a few amps as a standby for other electronics.
     
  21. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    5,176
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Still don’t get why people think there are no moving parts to wear out in these.
     
  22. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    23,058
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    There's certainly a lot less moving (and wear) parts.
     
  23. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paveslave53
    I spoke with the folks in Granbury TX that manufacture the mag. They are the ones who will be supplying Lycoming factory Engines with the MAG. They said the FAA had them do testing with both mags and that at some point they will have an STC for 2 of them. After all the testing they certified one. The FAA still isn’t allowing 2 for some reason. when it is STCd you will have to have a small backup bat. Similar to the ones used in the Diesels for the FADEC backup. Thinking about putting one on the 182. Maybe Ill cruise over there and check it out when I get back. Anyone using one?
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  24. chemgeek

    chemgeek Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,362
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    chemgeek
    The Sureflys have gotten pretty good reviews from owners on the Grumman Gang mail list. Better starts, improved fuel economy, reportedly.
     
  25. SloRoam

    SloRoam Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    36
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SloRoam
    Just installed in my plane.

    The logic seemed clear from an economic, reliability, and performance perspective.

    There are good threads on the Vans forum, and also good articles in aviation consumer.

    Advanced timing, solid state reliability, increased longevity, better precision... And let's face it, most modern designed engines do not use mags...

    See really simple to me.
     
    imwithtuxedo likes this.
  26. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,649
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    Instead you have electronics, being subjected to heat and vibration...I’ll wait a couple of years to see how they hold up.
     
  27. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paveslave53
    Install looks really easy, everyone worried about vibration and heat so far I have not heard of anyone having that type of issue. DEFIANTLY doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. The FAA has approved it and Lycomings soon will come with them from the factory. My mag was trashed at the 500 hour........ the electronic ones are inspected at 2400 hours. That alone tells me they have MTBF documentation already or the feds would have never gone for it being that far between insp. Intervals. Carburetors were great until FI, Recips dominated the planet until Turbines, horse and buggie would never be replaced by the automobile. Things change...doesn’t always mean better but a lot of the times it does. These mags have been out for a while now on the experimental side. So anyone that has them do they support the Claim of 1gph less fuel burn and better starts?
     
  28. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paveslave53
    I had a 0-320 H2AD and my mags are getting harder and harder to find parts for.I wanted the electro air but for the price I could buy 4 overhauled mags and they would last a lifetime.
     
  29. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    Mine's been in for 23 months (just shy of two years). Still running like the day I installed it.
     
  30. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paveslave53
    Did you notice a fuel burn difference?
     
  31. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Messages:
    107
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fracpilot
    Does anyone have any comparison between the ElectroAir vs Suremags??

    I have the ElectroAir dealer on my field.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  32. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,370
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    wayne
    The Cirrus owners on COPA really like it. There is a small reduction in fuel burn and reports that the engine runs smoother. Another big bonus is easy hot starts.

    There is a rumor that SureFly is working on a dual option, and that battery-back up is needed for redundancy. The Cirrus crowd really likes this as the Cirrus planes already have dual alternators and batteries.
     
    imwithtuxedo likes this.
  33. Hunt-man

    Hunt-man Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hunt-man
    I have a Surefly 6L new in the box. Hoping to install it next week. My slick mags are past the 500 hr mark but running fine, so far, for now....
     
  34. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,649
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    Hours?
     
  35. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
  36. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    Statesville NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grum.Man
    You can buy a lot of 500 hour inspections for the price of one of those. I’ll stick to my trusty mags until something significantly less expensive or something that gives me much more power or economy comes out.
     
  37. Paveslave53

    Paveslave53 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    37
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Paveslave53
    If you want more power you can send your cylinders to lycon. I have heard 20-30HP from them but that’s lycon saying that. And it’s cheap(relative)1800$ for 6 cylinders. Say you gain 10 HP that’s a lot.They told me 25 HP on a IO-360. The cool thing about the electronic ignition is it adjusts timing for altitude. I would be interested in the warranty info they claim 2400 hours before checks.....
     
  38. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    Statesville NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grum.Man
    I don’t need more power, I was just implying that I would need another reason to upgrade.
     
  39. asicer

    asicer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,632
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asicer
    How about less downtime and lower fuel burn?
     
  40. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,649
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom
    I haven’t kept up, do they adjust the timing? I’ve also heard they need fine wires ($$). I’m waiting for someone to put more than just a few hundred hours on them.


    Tom