Sully

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by pmanton, May 30, 2017.

  1. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    All I can go off of is the fact that the pilots involved say that it didn't go down as depicted. It had about as much relation to reality as the Iranian police cars chasing a departing 747 down the runway in the movie Argo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(2012_film)#Historical_inaccuracies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sully_(film)#Controversy
     
  2. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Well, yes, but the entire purpose of the movie was to engage and entertain an audience. Had it done otherwise it would have been a failure.

    I suppose they could have used the NTSB transcripts and the cockpit recordings in place of a movie script, but then who would go to see it? Heck, I'm just grateful they didn't have Skiles in an affair with a stewardess and Sully smuggling cocaine in his flight bag.

    Accept entertainment for what it is. Don't expect accuracy from anything out of Hollywood; just relax and enjoy it.
     
  3. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That pilot was there for the meetings, not the initial investigation and other stuff.

    Or do you really think Sully was on the inside for all of the conversations with the NTSB?

    Please. I guarantee you that pilot error was kicked around among the NTSB at some point
     
  4. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Completely understood. I just call BS when it’s BS. Nick was trying to use the fictional movie to justify a position about NTSB, which was ultra-silly.

    I was most entertained by the “videoconference” done live in the simulator as the peak of “tension” in the movie when I saw it. I sat there thinking, “Man, that’s one hell of a good videoconferencing system with multiple camera angles that auto switch inside a simulator cockpit!”, since I used to build and install such things. Hahaha.

    The transcripts show, as one would expect, that sim time was done, of course, but nobody did any live videoconferencing. We all know what time it was in France for an afternoon government hearing in NY... LOL. Time zones... hmmm. Yeah, let’s put our best sim investigators in the sim at midnight so they can be available for a dramatic videoconference on cue at just the right time in the “grilling” questions... ROFLMAO.

    Heck, they didn’t even do ten minutes of, “Hello! Can you see us? How’s the audio? (In this loud-ass simulator box...)”

    Hollywood is awesome.

    Mixing airplanes and videoconferencing for a former videoconferencing engineer and pilot, just MIGHT have had the effect of bringing me straight out of “suspension of disbelief” for two hours... hahaha.

    Actually the cockpit scenes were done fairly well for a movie. The Director appeared to give a crap about those. But I had to stifle laughter at the videoconference. For sure.
     
  5. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No. I’m using the fact that almost EVERY NTSB report lists pilot error as he probable cause. Unexpected Andy unreported wind gust at flare? Pilot error. Unforecast icing in IMC at night? Pilot error.

    Might as well just focus on the contributing factors as they are usually the real probable cause without the NTSB’s BS hanging
     
  6. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm sure it was as that's no doubt on the "checklist" they use. Believe what ya want man.
     
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    In most of their reports, when you read the details, the “bias” toward pilot error is correct.

    Can you cite a specific report where pilot error was claimed that the pilot did not make an error? Let’s see ONE. Can you find one?
     
  8. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Agreed. The whole depiction of the simulator runs was silly, but so were several other things compared to the real world.

    As an engineer, I've been on numerous failure review boards, and have led several investigations, for missile flight failures. I have some inkling of what a real investigation looks like, how fault trees are created, how sims are used, how recovered hardware is analyzed, etc.

    A movie made along those lines would be boring as hell.

    Which is ironic, because the real investigation is fascinating. Trying to reconstruct what happened from charred bits of twisted hardware recovered from a hole in the desert floor, telemetry records, pre-flight test runs, build records, etc., is a better mystery than anything Perry Mason or Jessica Fletcher ever saw.
     
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  9. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Yup.

    I like making fun of the cop shows my wife watches.

    Twelve highly qualified detectives assigned to one murder case for a week. And then a shootout at the end, in a stairwell, where nobody is ever hit, and the main characters aren’t deaf as a post next week.

    Hollywood is fun. More fun if you actually think about it while you’re watching it.

    At the incident scene earlier this week when I was taking the photos before dragging airplane parts out of the road, I was thinking how difficult it would be to recreate what we saw happen live from those photos. Quite a few clues but it still wouldn’t be easy without someone walking through the photos one at a time visualizing where the aircraft went.

    And that was a pretty straightforward landing accident. The critical photos would have been the road sign knocked down, the tire skid marks on the road, the main gear tire ruts in the ditch, and that pretty much tells the story. The rest were just covering “where did all the parts stop moving”. The physics was in those three shots.
     
  10. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I doubt they love the fact that nearly 50% of fatal aircraft accidents are attributed to pilot error.
     
  11. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    That's what makes me laugh at war movies... All the shooting, bombs bursting in air, the rockets red glare, and after the shooting stops, the characters start whispering to each other..... :rofl:
     
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  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah. They kinda did it right in the final scene of Pvt Ryan when Hanks couldn’t hear a damned thing when everyone was yelling at him. But it’s rare. And Hollywood only does it with artillery or explosives. Rarely with small arms.

    A friend of mine posted on FB that he went shooting on family land with his Glock 30 on Thanksgiving and forgot his hearing protection. His ears were still ringing yesterday. I told him he knew better than that and hope he didn’t cause permanent damage.

    I once fired a 1911 held pointing to my left about a foot from my face looking at something. Hearing protection off. I had turned sideways to make sure the muzzle was where I wanted it pointed. But at that distance, I couldn’t hear **** for half an hour.

    I always chuckle when I see airline commercials with happy rampers waving their wands (more PoA jokes... just get it over with...) and smiling (the smile is part of the problem with it, and the good weather is the other part, just to start with) who aren’t wearing any hearing protection either.

    Or they have them on top of their heads off of their ears. :)

    Airline ramps are loud. Really freaking loud.
     
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  13. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Huh? What?
     
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  14. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Because they were a big much of dirty flockers who needed roasting anyway. Besides in a way, they are pilots too and the NTSB did need to blame pilots after all.
     
  15. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah and they were pilots first!
     
  16. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    My hearing has been wrecked by many years of playing in rock bands, driving racecars, shooting guns, and riding motorcycles.

    At least I didn't waste it.
     
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  17. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I had forgotten about that one.

    While in the army something exploded in a large room we were in. My ears still ring over 35 years later.
     
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  18. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They most certainly aren’t certificated pilots!
     
  19. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Get any on you? It was a mammoth fart no?
     
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  20. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When they began flying certification wasn't required. Therefore they were grandfathered in.
     
  21. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How would you know? Are you an expert on Canada’s aviation regulations?
     
  22. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I am not.

    I do know that Canada geese may be citizens of either Canada or USA and that they have no pockets to carry the cert as required by regs.
     
  23. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Could have dual citizenship too.
     
  24. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You are claiming these geese are a hundred years old?
     
  25. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Immaterial.

    The big problem is they were NORDO.
     
  26. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They’re geesers.
     
  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I ain't claiming nutin'.
     
  28. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Then you are confused as usual.
     
  29. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  30. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    At least they were squawking.
     
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  31. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Like @Clark1961 :cheers:
     
  32. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The only goose squawking here is @mscard88. He can’t settle down without blaming other folks for getting called out on his stupid ideas.
     
  33. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ooh touchy touchy.

    You're the only one taking things wayyyyy too serious dude, lighten up willya.
     
  34. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Did they file IFR?


    Ingested Fowl Rules.
     
  35. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    [​IMG]
     
  36. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That guy is right up there with Harvey Weinstein, Roy Moore, Al Franken, Louis CK and the rest of those disgusting cretins.
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Once 2020 has passed and all geese are ADS-B equipped the skies shall be safe. Nexgen baby!
     
  38. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Y'know, I should submit an unsolicited proposal to equip geese with ADSB; bet the FAA would go for it.
     
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  39. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes. See any of the gust at touchdown reports that result in ground looping.
     
  40. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Grandfeathered
     
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