Stupid Pilot Cessna 172

Ron Levy said:
My point exactly. Peer pressure doesn't work in this situation -- only a hammer does. People who do this stuff deliberately have an anti-authority attitude peers can't fix. The question is whether or not you are willing to go to someone with the authority to wield that hammer to what you can to keep someone from getting killed. Your choice, your conscience. As for me, I have no problem shaving.
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Ratting only stops renters. I've lived and played with reckless people that make rogue GA pilots look like grandmas, if you are cool you can help them play safer. If you play douche they will laugh at you then start dating your daughter. The truly hopeless and unskilled get named in a public death pool, no better way to send a message then wagering on their odds.
 
Last night, driving the vanpool home from work there were two guys - a Mustang and a Lexus (okay, could have been gals) that went by on opposite sides doing about 100 and weaving through the traffic racing each other on the public highway. That's reckless and that's endangerment, endangerment of other people not involved with their folly.

These two guys in the 172, they didn't endanger anyone other than themselves and a few shrubs on the ground and the endangerment was minimal at best. Anyone who feels otherwise needs to step back and find something else to fuss about.
 
Inverted said:
"Stunt flying" drives me nuts. Just like how planes "crash land"

There is nothing illegal about the aerobatics he did other than not having his pax in a chute. And if this is in another country that might not even be a reg.

OP, the pilot in the video you posted is not dangerous. You are dangerous. Stop trying to be an armchair policeman. Could the FAA get him on reckless and careless? Sure they can, but they can probably do that to every pilot at some point. I swear there are so many squares on this forum. Try going out and having a little fun in an airplane sometime. He is in the middle of freaking nowhere buzzing flatlands. Get over it!
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Agreed
 
Swampfox201 said:
Is this is the crash you are talking about? Barrel rolling a Beach 99 at night. It's stuck with me because I knew the pilot rolling the plane. He was a respected Flight Instructor at our flight school before leaving for a regional carrier.

Last moment of flight:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001211X12105&key=1
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Rolling ANY airplane should be done with the knowledge of aerobatics. BE99s roll like a freaking dream. Ummm so I have heard...
 
I'm more concerned with their lack of aerobatic training leading to a compromised airplane for the next renter.
 
wickedsprint said:
I'm more concerned with their lack of aerobatic training leading to a compromised airplane for the next renter.
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In this case, it does not seem to be a rental and it is very possible that the owner is sitting in the right seat. Just guessing on my part. That said, there is still the issue of the next owner getting an overstressed airframe but caveat emptor, I guess.
 
God help us if it is a rental. They guys acro is so sloppy that he almost certainly is overstressing the 172 leaving latent damage for the next unsuspecting pilot to trip across.
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flyingron said:
God help us if it is a rental. They guys acro is so sloppy that he almost certainly is overstressing the 172 leaving latent damage for the next unsuspecting pilot to trip across.
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The pilot is clueless. If I were a hotdog that thought I should be doing acro in a 172, I would at least be embarrassed to be showing off that crap as mad skillz.
 
Inverted said:
Rolling ANY airplane should be done with the knowledge of aerobatics. BE99s roll like a freaking dream. Ummm so I have heard...
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Ya just don't try it at night from 1200AGL.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Ya just don't try it at night from 1200AGL.
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Well, this may have also had something to do with it - "pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way around, unload". Pulling back on the elevator throughout the roll ends up "and then point straight for the ground". Kinda like that 172 guy. That is why it reminded me of the Beech.
 
Or dorking up the gyros for the next person to use in IMC.
 
alfadog said:
Well, this may have also had something to do with it - "pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way around, unload". Pulling back on the elevator throughout the roll ends up "and then point straight for the ground". Kinda like that 172 guy. That is why it reminded me of the Beech.
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Agreed. I have no aerobatic training but I did try the roll on x-plane at the same altitude. If I did it slow enough and did it like the CVR explained I hit the ground too.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Ya just don't try it at night from 1200AGL.
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I have only done aerobatics down low a couple of times (waivered airspace). Even in a Pitts, 1200 feet doesn't look like much. Doing it in a 99 is insane. The 99 has a really nice roll rate too.
 
Let's not even bring up the FARs they violated for a moment. I'm not the FAA and yes I don't care if these two bozos wrecked it and took their own lives. Here's the problem with people experimenting with aerobatics with no training (if indeed this is the case). Mostly it's about trying to emulate something that they've seen. They go out by themselves and make feeble attempts at said manuver until finally they do it for real. It works! Now they want to show off their new found skills to others. But now the conditions have changed. The aircrafts a little heavier, DA is a little higher and there's some turbulence. The aircraft isn't performing like it did before and now we find the nose buried below the horizon. The pilot gives a healthy pull of the yoke, hits some turbulence and snap! Now we have another accident like the BE-58 discribed in the AOPA article.

Air show pilots who take non aerobatic aircraft and perform aerobatics in front of a crowd get a special waiver, along with their low altitude waiver to do that. Guys like Bob Hoover (Shrike), Matt Younkin (BE-18), and the late Jimmy Franklin (Aerostar) had to demonstrate how they can safely handle these aircraft in front FAA inspectors. They perform these manuvers within the structural limits of the aircraft. Now, I'm not saying these guys posses magical skills that none of us can acquire, but I'm pretty sure the guy in the vid doesn't have the experience of a Hoover, Younkin or a Franklin. The guy flying the Baron didn't and he took people with him in the process.

Another problem with this video is out is emulation from others who think now they want to try it with some old C-172 rental. Do we really think a 40 yr old plane can still take the stresses that it was designed for. I once flew T-34s in laser dogfighting and 3 yrs later one of them had its wing snap well below its design breaking strength. Even aerobatic planes if they're old need to be babied. If you're gonna push a non aerobatic plane into something it wasn't designed for, it's gonna bite back. Go get instruction and fly something that was build for the purpose of aerobatics.
 
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McFly, do you know if the T-34 had the spar AD complied with that grounded the entire fleet for a while?

While I don't disagree with your statements, aerobatics in any aircraft is a risk. I have lost more friends in unlimited aerobatic aircraft than in non-aerobatic aircraft doing aerobatics. The bottom line is to do aerobatics, you should be properly trained and seasoned.

There are plenty of airshow acts that use non-aerobatic aircraft for aerobatic airshow routines. It is about how you handle the airplane, and maintain the airplane.
 
Inverted said:
McFly, do you know if the T-34 had the spar AD complied with that grounded the entire fleet for a while?

While I don't disagree with your statements, aerobatics in any aircraft is a risk. I have lost more friends in unlimited aerobatic aircraft than in non-aerobatic aircraft doing aerobatics. The bottom line is to do aerobatics, you should be properly trained and seasoned.

There are plenty of airshow acts that use non-aerobatic aircraft for aerobatic airshow routines. It is about how you handle the airplane, and maintain the airplane.
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No this was at Sky Warriors in 1996. The AD came out 1999 after the accident. I think Texas Air Aces lost two more non modified aircraft later on.
 
Ron Levy said:
My point exactly. Peer pressure doesn't work in this situation -- only a hammer does. People who do this stuff deliberately have an anti-authority attitude peers can't fix. The question is whether or not you are willing to go to someone with the authority to wield that hammer to what you can to keep someone from getting killed. Your choice, your conscience. As for me, I have no problem shaving.
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Anti-Authority is a dangerous attitude, confronting a pilot may not do much to make a pilot safer. Lord knows I USED to know a few acquaintances in my life were NOBODY could tell them what they can or can't do. Emphasis on USED to.

Do I advocate rating them out to the FAA? Nope. But I cant say that I wont if it comes down to it. I've lost too many acquaintances (referenced above) to stupidity. Its not okay to take your own life, but its NEVER okay to take your passengers life because of showmanship (I lost a really good friend because of an Jack-as$ show-off). I'll save the FAA card as the VERY LAST RESORT when I feel they are literally going to kill someone other than themselves (students, pax, people on the ground).

A classic case of Anti-Authority is DRILLED into all AF pilots (maybe due to an youth vs. ego vs skill complex) is the case of Lt. Col "Bud" Holland...that is one very sick case of doing too little when the pilot clearly had a VERY long rap sheet of pushing the limits until the limits pushed back.

Again, I don't like people ratting on other people. However, GA is ALSO dying because of the num-nuts who decide its smart to perform aerobatics in run of the mill beat-up Cessnas and "accidently" kill themselves...Who cares if they die? Maybe no one, but it certainly makes REALLY GOOD news. IMHO GA has enough negative PR, why add to it by doing Snap Rolls in a C152 over a suburban neighborhood? (On the local news a few months ago)
 
I do not see anything that would cause me to want to turn some one in.

I don't know what his training is, nor do I know the plane....

But then again I am not a crybaby rat looking to turn in a fellow pilot.

If this guy wins Darwin awards sobeit.

To be honest if he had a minor child with him I would be disturbed unless I knew he was trained.... otherwise I see lots of more dangerous things daily on my ride to the mall.

How many of you use your phone while driving? Text? Email? Check your text or email? How many smoke? Light a cigar or cigarette while driving?

Yeah, that is what I thought. Turn yourselves in for being dangerous. You are probably taking a bigger chance considering the amount of risk you take vs this guy.
 
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