Stupid Pilot Cessna 172

RotorAndWing said:
Actually a pilot's worse enemy is other pilots. Most FAA Inspectors don't have the time or inclination to watch or scour the internet looking for videos of violators. But rest assured your fellow pilots love to call the FAA and say "you gotta see this!" and bring it to their attention.

The same for your activities around an airport. 90% of the time it's your fellow pilot that turns you in for some alleged violation.
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Welcome to the 21st century. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't do something illegal where someone can catch it on their cell phone video cam, and definitely don't post it on the internet. I didn't think that was anything less than intuitively obvious, but clearly there are some real idiots out there who can't think beyond 12 seconds into the future or see past their egos. And if their judgement is that bad, do we really want to share the sky with them? :dunno:
 
Ron Levy said:
Welcome to the 21st century. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't do something illegal where someone can catch it on their cell phone video cam, and definitely don't post it on the internet. I didn't think that was anything less than intuitively obvious, but clearly there are some real idiots out there. And if their judgement is that bad, do we really want to share the sky with them? :dunno:
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:yeahthat: The stupid thing was filming it, the 2nd stupid thing was posting it on the internet.
 
bartmc said:
Why do we even have the FAA when people are so willing to
1) Show the world how stupid they are and
2) Rat their peers out.

The concept of self regulating is to police your own, not turn them in to the police. :mad2:
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Who's rating their peers out? People say stuff on boards all the time, would anyone really go to the FAA in your opinion? If so they must have a lot of free time on their hands.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Who's rating their peers out? People say stuff on boards all the time, would anyone really go to the FAA in your opinion? If so they must have a lot of free time on their hands.
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Ask TonyAir and OP has put a call out to turn this guy into the FAA.
 
bartmc said:
Why do we even have the FAA when people are so willing to
1) Show the world how stupid they are and
2) Rat their peers out.

The concept of self regulating is to police your own, not turn them in to the police. :mad2:
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Yep, I've never understood the concept of those who cannot wait to call the FAA and turn someone in.

However when one of these guys does this I would say "Since you are filing the complaint I need your name, address, phone number and pilot certificate information." Immediately the back peddling would begin, and I would here "I don't want to get involved, I just want the FAA to be aware". Then I would inform them if they are indeed making a complaint they needed to cooperate as we did not follow through on anonymous complaints. Most of the time the guy would just hang up.
 
bartmc said:
Ask TonyAir and OP has put a call out to turn this guy into the FAA.
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I wonder if any enforcement action has ever come from a Youtube video?

Also, what's to stop the guy from saying this was edited together and all of the maneuvering and low flying took place outside the U.S. I would think that enforcement based solely on youtube would be a waste of time.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I wonder if any enforcement action has ever come from a Youtube video?

Also, what's to stop the guy from saying this was edited together and all of the maneuvering and low flying took place outside the U.S. I would think that enforcement based solely on youtube would be a waste of time.
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Ask TonyAir.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I wonder if any enforcement action has ever come from a Youtube video?

Also, what's to stop the guy from saying this was edited together and all of the maneuvering and low flying took place outside the U.S. I would think that enforcement based solely on youtube would be a waste of time.
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If someone makes a formal complaint then it must be investigated. Will an enforcement take place? Depends, but what does happen is a lot of time and energy is wasted chasing these alleged violations.
 
bartmc said:
Ask TonyAir.
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I have no idea what you're talking about, I guess I could search on TonyAir, but how about helping me out?

Was there a violation based on a Youtube video? Just a simple question.
 
bartmc said:
:yeahthat: The stupid thing was filming it, the 2nd stupid thing was posting it on the internet.
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~~~. No, the stupid thing was doing it. And then filming and posting it.

Honestly, I wouldnt rat them out if I was present and aware of it, but I'd sure visit with them about their choices and behaviors. When kids do dumb pilot things and get away with it they tend to push the edge even further and may eventually kill themselves (thank you Darwin) or others - bad thing. When a GA accident occurs because of this kind of stunt stuff it affects all of us.
 
Now think for a moment.
Why did someone (likely the one who filmed it) put it on youtube and say, "Let's help the FAA catch these guys."? (Did the FAA ask for help, as if it's an unsolved mystery?) Why didn't this concerned citizen simply forward it directly to the authorities himself? Because he has no intention of reporting it. He just wanted to trick people into viewing it, forwarding it around, and getting all worked up about it.
 
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Jeanie said:
~~~. No, the stupid thing was doing it. And then filming and posting it.

Honestly, I wouldnt rat them out if I was present and aware of it, but I'd sure visit with them about their choices and behaviors. When kids do dumb pilot things and get away with it they tend to push the edge even further and may eventually kill themselves (thank you Darwin) or others - bad thing. When a GA accident occurs because of this kind of stunt stuff it affects all of us.
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Those rolls were terrible and remind of the twin that crashed with a pilot and a check pilot screwing around like that. The last words on the CVR were a resigned "and then you end up looking straight down at the ground."
 
Alexb2000 said:
I have no idea what you're talking about, I guess I could search on TonyAir, but how about helping me out?

Was there a violation based on a Youtube video? Just a simple question.
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Short story.

Young, fresh pilot out doing similar things as in this video (one I recall was a badly performed barrel roll that coulda pulled the wings off of the 172), posted it on YouTube and the Red Board, FSDO was notified, they weren't impressed from my recollection.

I won't comment on his choice of attire in the videos.
 
alfadog said:
Those rolls were terrible and remind of the twin that crashed with a pilot and a check pilot screwing around like that. The last words on the CVR were a resigned "and then you end up looking straight down at the ground."
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Is this is the crash you are talking about? Barrel rolling a Beach 99 at night. It's stuck with me because I knew the pilot rolling the plane. He was a respected Flight Instructor at our flight school before leaving for a regional carrier.

Last moment of flight:
Subsequently, the flying pilot said, "I bet it would be real easy to just take
it right on over." The pilots then discussed rolling airplanes. At 234952, the
flying pilot referred to his experience rolling Cessna 152 and 172 airplanes,* and
said, "...I guess we've got enough speed right now. And you just kinda start
coming in like this, pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way
around, unload ... and then point straight for the ground." The recording ended
after this last remark, at 235035.
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http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001211X12105&key=1
 
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Inverted said:
"Stunt flying" drives me nuts. Just like how planes "crash land"

There is nothing illegal about the aerobatics he did other than not having his pax in a chute. And if this is in another country that might not even be a reg.

OP, the pilot in the video you posted is not dangerous. You are dangerous. Stop trying to be an armchair policeman. Could the FAA get him on reckless and careless? Sure they can, but they can probably do that to every pilot at some point. I swear there are so many squares on this forum. Try going out and having a little fun in an airplane sometime. He is in the middle of freaking nowhere buzzing flatlands. Get over it!
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+3, could state it better.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Is this is the crash you are talking about? Barrel rolling a Beach 99 at night. It's stuck with me because I knew the pilot rolling the plane. He was a respected Flight Instructor at our flight school before leaving for a regional carrier.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001211X12105&key=1
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Yes, that is the one. What a stupid, useless pity. Here are the last words:

"Subsequently, the flying pilot said, "I bet it would be real easy to just take it right on over." The pilots then discussed rolling airplanes. At 2349:52, the flying pilot referred to his experience rolling Cessna 152 and 172 airplanes, and said, "...I guess we've got enough speed right now. And you just kinda start coming in like this, pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way around, unload ... and then point straight for the ground." The recording ended after this last remark, at 2350:35."
 
alfadog said:
Yes, that is the one. What a stupid, useless pity. Here are the last words:

"Subsequently, the flying pilot said, "I bet it would be real easy to just take it right on over." The pilots then discussed rolling airplanes. At 2349:52, the flying pilot referred to his experience rolling Cessna 152 and 172 airplanes, and said, "...I guess we've got enough speed right now. And you just kinda start coming in like this, pullin up ... and keep positive Gs on it. Take it all the way around, unload ... and then point straight for the ground." The recording ended after this last remark, at 2350:35."
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Looks like we quoted at the same time!

We all thought something had to of happened with the plane for such a great pilot to have died like that. After the NTSB report was released I started hearing stories about him rolling our trainers. Never knew at the time.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Actually a pilot's worse enemy is other pilots. Most FAA Inspectors don't have the time or inclination to watch or scour the internet looking for videos of violators. But rest assured your fellow pilots love to call the FAA and say "you gotta see this!" and bring it to their attention.

The same for your activities around an airport. 90% of the time it's your fellow pilot that turns you in for some alleged violation.
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That is incredibly arrogant behavior, isn't it? Wish the GA community were more supportive and willing to support their fellow pilot as a general rule. Certainly an over generalization, but it does seem like the self righteous arrogance is the nature of time based credibility in GA. Maybe if not being a jerk was in the regs, the GA world would be a better place.
 
ssonixx said:
That is incredibly arrogant behavior, isn't it? Wish the GA community were more supportive and willing to support their fellow pilot as a general rule. Certainly an over generalization, but it does seem like the self righteous arrogance is the nature of time based credibility in GA. Maybe if not being a jerk was in the regs, the GA world would be a better place.
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Using my story above had I known my fellow FI was rolling our 172s and had I turned him in would he and his passenger be alive now? Would their kids still have a dad?
 
Any of you ever approached a fellow pilot to discuss with him/her their deliberate illegal/dangerous actions? Did they take it well? Did they change their behavior or otherwise indicate regret for their actions?






I thought not.
 
From the IAC:
-Never fly aerobatics in aircraft not approved for aerobatic flight.

Does a C-172 have loops and rolls listed approved aerobatic manuvers in its POH? I would think the list of approved manuvers would be the same as the AA-5 I used to own:
Chandelles
Lazy Eights
Steep Turns
Stalls
My Glasair specifically lists rolls and loops amongst other aerobatic manuvers in the operating limitations section. Then again it's approved for +6 to -3 Gs. Seems at least it would be in violation of 91.9 (a). Possibly even 91.13 (a). Of course there's the whole parachute thing as well but whatever, if a wing snapped during the loop, odds are his pax wouldnt be able to get out anyway. The low altitude flying? Plenty of speed and flat area if the engine failed to perform a safe landing.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Using my story above had I known my fellow FI was rolling our 172s and had I turned him in would he and his passenger be alive now? Would their kids still have a dad?
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Certainty an unfortunate consequence. It sounds like your school needs some better controls in its teaching. And, I agree you should have said something.

My comment was to address slight infractions that should be dealt with as stringently as outright illegal activity. Please see post I was referring. There is a fine line between intention, mistake, and unaware. Again a generalization, but it may come a surprise to some high time pilots that those of us still in learning mode may not necessarily know what is yet an infraction and may on occasion make mistakes. It is what I call learning. Others may call... the FAA.

The guy doing barrel rolls in a 172? Well, yeah...seems like a dumb thing to do.
 
alfadog said:
LOL, I know exactly what runway they departed (and the one they landed on, too, for that matter) and the N-Number is visible in the video. Flying low over the Everglades is certainly not illegal. I understand that there is nothing "illegal" about doing aerobatics in a normal category aircraft (I am assuming they were too heavy to be utility). Someone please correct me if I am wrong on that. Of course, lack of chutes is a violation.
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It is when there is a placard like this:
b52ude.png
 
Got it, thanks!

§ 91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.

Velocity173 said:
From the IAC:
-Never fly aerobatics in aircraft not approved for aerobatic flight.

Does a C-172 have loops and rolls listed approved aerobatic manuvers in its POH? I would think the list of approved manuvers would be the same as the AA-5 I used to own:
Chandelles
Lazy Eights
Steep Turns
Stalls
My Glasair specifically lists rolls and loops amongst other aerobatic manuvers in the operating limitations section. Then again it's approved for +6 to -3 Gs. Seems at least it would be in violation of 91.9 (a). Possibly even 91.13 (a). Of course there's the whole parachute thing as well but whatever, if a wing snapped during the loop, odds are his pax wouldnt be able to get out anyway. The low altitude flying? Plenty of speed and flat area if the engine failed to perform a safe landing.
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kkoran said:
It is when there is a placard like this:
b52ude.png
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You are not allowed to bank more than 60 degrees in an aircraft in the normal category and not approved for aerobatics. Not that I care one bit, but he was already busting that on his steep turns down low.
 
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May the pilot that as never broken an FAA regulation make the call to turn him in. It won't be me!:nono:
 
Ron Levy said:
Any of you ever approached a fellow pilot to discuss with him/her their deliberate illegal/dangerous actions? Did they take it well? Did they change their behavior or otherwise indicate regret for their actions?






I thought not.
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Yes we did, he owned his own airplane, but he was asked to leave the flying club we were in. His consistent disregard for rules (FARs) and other accepted safety paractices were more than we could stand.

He did not take it well and left, mad at everyone.

It's been about 10 yrs, but he recently rolled his C140 into a ball after striking power lines and killed himself and his passenger.
 
BillTIZ said:
Yes we did, he owned his own airplane, but he was asked to leave the flying club we were in. His consistent disregard for rules (FARs) and other accepted safety paractices were more than we could stand.

He did not take it well and left, mad at everyone.

It's been about 10 yrs, but he recently rolled his C140 into a ball after striking power lines and killed himself and his passenger.
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My point exactly. Peer pressure doesn't work in this situation -- only a hammer does. People who do this stuff deliberately have an anti-authority attitude peers can't fix. The question is whether or not you are willing to go to someone with the authority to wield that hammer to what you can to keep someone from getting killed. Your choice, your conscience. As for me, I have no problem shaving.
 
Ron Levy said:
My point exactly. Peer pressure doesn't work in this situation -- only a hammer does. People who do this stuff deliberately have an anti-authority attitude peers can't fix. The question is whether or not you are willing to go to someone with the authority to wield that hammer to what you can to keep someone from getting killed. Your choice, your conscience. As for me, I have no problem shaving.
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IMO, It's worth a try. Sometimes folks don't realize the consequences of their actions and spontaneously do something dumb without thinking about it. I guess the fact that they filmed it and planned it all out they have probably done it before, though. They are young. Young people do dumb stuff, because they are invincible. Sometimes they just need a reality check.
 
Ron Levy said:
My point exactly. Peer pressure doesn't work in this situation -- only a hammer does. People who do this stuff deliberately have an anti-authority attitude peers can't fix. The question is whether or not you are willing to go to someone with the authority to wield that hammer to what you can to keep someone from getting killed. Your choice, your conscience. As for me, I have no problem shaving.
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Repetition and being barred from renting planes at 3 airports didn't stop one guy from clotheslining himself on a powerline. A friend of mine turned him away from renting the day he did it, the 4th airport didn't know him.
 
Ok after watching the video again and seeing him do the loops and rolls, this was not a spontaneous event, this was planned, but I still don't think we should play innernet police and burn him.
 
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