MachFly
En-Route
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 2,514
- Display Name
Display name:
MachFly
I do not disagree with anything that you just said. However I do want to add that there is a reason why it's called a "licence to learn."
Students... What maneuvers do you do alone in practice area?
- Thread starter drotto
- Start date
I do not disagree with anything that you just said. However I do want to add that there is a reason why it's called a "licence to learn."
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Its just a colloquialism. The FAA doesnt call it that. They call the holder of one: a PILOT
Lindberg
Final Approach
I think there is a big difference between saying that an instructor should trust a solo student's ability to do the maneuvers without killing himself, and believing he can do them to PTS standards.
I suspect that knowing when to sign a student for solo is the most difficult part of instructing.
JeffDG
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hell, I would have hated not doing slow flight solo...loved doing it, especially trying to get the GPS to reverse direction when I hit negative ground-speed on a day when the winds aloft were sufficient.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
When I was flying solo in the practice area, I was expected to practice steep turns, slow flight (entry, turns, climbs, and recovery), power-off stalls (straight and turning), and power-on stalls (straight and turning). My CFI asked me not to practice ground reference maneuvers or emergency landings, presumably because our practice area is over a fairly populated area.
I was also not supposed to do so soft field takeoffs or touch and goes.
I was also not supposed to do so soft field takeoffs or touch and goes.
I didn't say that (in fact said the opposite). I said that sending a student off the checkride without the trust he could do all the PTS tasks solo is bad instruction.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Then there is possibly a transition time to where you might not want a certain student doing X task they'll have to do on their checkride on their first couple solo flights?
You don't just toss someone out there on their first solo, say why don't you do a few landings, and then head out to the practice area and do some power on stalls. Yes there are students you CAN tell that to but there are SOME that you simply cannot. They require very structured solo flights under perfect conditions over time to build up their confidence and skill.
You have to know the student and come up with a plan that makes sense for that student. There are some that I simply never worried about - there are others to where I know that things need to be done a certain way so they don't scare themselves and destroy their confidence which is all the often something a student will never recover from.
One does not expect an early solo student to be capable of handling everything that flying can throw at them. It's up to the instructor to know the student, control the environment, and reduce as many risks as possible. You REALLY hope like hell that nothing goes wrong during these first flights. Thats the reality of it. Train for things to go wrong and hope to **** they don't.
Hence why I told this guy originally to talk to his instructor. If the instructor doesn't want the student doing a certain activity during solo there is probably a reason for that - a reason they'll likely have worked out by the time the checkride comes.
Last edited:
vdehart
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2013
- Messages
- 140
- Location
- Long Beach/Torrance, California
- Display Name
Display name:
vdehart
Intentional spins of course.
As I said Jesse, I never said the stuff you're attributing to me. I was taking issue with the argument that students should never be allowed to do the full range of PTS manouvers solo, that they need the instructor ALWAYS and that the instructor should rely on the crutch that the examiner will save his ill-prepared students ass.
Clearly an instructor should make it clear to his students what he should be doing on the solo flights at each stage of the training, but by the time the student is ready for the checkride signoff, be damn well better be trained well enough to safely execute all the required manouvers without either instruction or a cya pilot in the right seat.
Clearly an instructor should make it clear to his students what he should be doing on the solo flights at each stage of the training, but by the time the student is ready for the checkride signoff, be damn well better be trained well enough to safely execute all the required manouvers without either instruction or a cya pilot in the right seat.
Last edited:
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Please remember that not everyone knows where the "practice area" is at training airports. It is better to give your location from the airport rather than say "I'm in the practice area". I hear that a lot in this area.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Yep, practice area 1 is about as useful to most people who aren't students in the same facility as an instrument pilot telling someone he's at RICCE inbound. Use positions that mean something to the people are listening.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Agree
azure
Final Approach
I started out just doing slow flight and steep turns, but gradually worked my way up to everything else in the PTS that could legally be done solo and then some, including (in no particular order):
soft field TO/L
short field TO/L
ground reference maneuvers
emergency checklist procedures/looking for suitable landing area
slow flight
power-off stalls
dutch rolls
falling leaf stalls (this was GREAT fun)
power-on stalls (but had trouble working up the gumption)
aggressive slips with full flaps (in a 172 at altitude, trying to induce elevator oscillation)
Except for the last which I never mentioned to him, all of the above were with the express consent of my CFI. YMMV.
soft field TO/L
short field TO/L
ground reference maneuvers
emergency checklist procedures/looking for suitable landing area
slow flight
power-off stalls
dutch rolls
falling leaf stalls (this was GREAT fun)
power-on stalls (but had trouble working up the gumption)
aggressive slips with full flaps (in a 172 at altitude, trying to induce elevator oscillation)
Except for the last which I never mentioned to him, all of the above were with the express consent of my CFI. YMMV.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
That's what it was with me too... my instructor specified those conditions before I went out on my first solo to a practice area. The other stuff like steep turns and turns around a point/S-turns were given the green light.
Really, on my first flight to the practice area, I circled a few lakes and just took in the scenery. It was a good reprieve from the stress of training. I think every student should treat it that way(while of course being safe).
slavinger
Pre-Flight
My personal opinion is that the falling leaf stall should be a required item. It is such a good training maneuver, teaching stall awareness, rudder awareness. My initial stall training was to incipient stall (take it to buffet, let the nose drop slightly, recover), not full stall recovery, and I was afraid of stalls. Another CFI taught me the full stall, the falling leaf technique (with flaps up & down) and spin recovery, over several lessons. I'd highly recommend both, and I'm glad I did it early in my flying 'career', it drilled into me significance of the rudder. Optional training, but well worth it.
