Student solo XC endorsement - is what I did okay?

U

Unregistered

Guest
I am a CFI. I had a student do his second solo XC a few days ago. I could not be at the airport due to work, and no other instructors were there (it's a small school with all part-time CFIs). So in order to provide him with the required endorsement, I had him fill out his navigation log, weather, etc., and then send them to me via attachments to text messages. I reviewed them, asked him a few questions, had him make a few changes, then wrote out an endorsement, took a picture of it, and sent it back to him via text. He completed the XC with no problems.

61.93(c)(2)(ii) says:
For each cross-country flight, the authorized instructor who reviews the cross-country planning must make an endorsement in the person's logbook after reviewing that person's cross-country planning, as specified in paragraph (d) of this section.

Obviously, I did not make this endorsement in the student's physical logbook. However, the advent of electronic logs has changed for many the definition of what is considered a "logbook", and in my mind, it's a reasonable thing to consider an electronic endorsement as a part of that logbook.

Next time we meet, I plan to bring the endorsement I wrote and stick it in his physical logbook so everything is nice and neat.

I think it's pretty clear that I complied with the spirit of the requirement to review the student's planning. What I'm not sure of is whether this is an accepted practice or not. And if not, why wouldn't it be?
 
While you may think this is all reasonable and that you complied with the spirit of the regulations, I think you should do your level best to put that sticker with your original signature into your Student's logbook as soon as possible because the regulations and FAA guidance make no provision for what you did.
 
The AC that is going around for electronic signatures doesn't really seem to cover endorsements too well. Personally, I think for endorsements you still need an ink signature, and a student pilot must have them on his/her possession.

I've written for an interpretation but have gotten no response thus far.
 
Well, I can distinctly remember during my PPL training helping my CFI digitize an endorsement to sent to another student that was on a check ride off site that she needed...don't remember specifics but I think it was related to her commercial rating.

And by digitize it was take a picture of it and email it over to her smartphone.

Although not an FAA examiner, the electronic endorsement was accepted by that DPE so would not see why that would not be acceptable for your student assuming all the reviews were done properly and he had that on his person.
 
Last edited:
Unregistered said:
I am a CFI. I had a student do his second solo XC a few days ago. I could not be at the airport due to work, and no other instructors were there (it's a small school with all part-time CFIs). So in order to provide him with the required endorsement, I had him fill out his navigation log, weather, etc., and then send them to me via attachments to text messages. I reviewed them, asked him a few questions, had him make a few changes, then wrote out an endorsement, took a picture of it, and sent it back to him via text. He completed the XC with no problems.

61.93(c)(2)(ii) says:
For each cross-country flight, the authorized instructor who reviews the cross-country planning must make an endorsement in the person's logbook after reviewing that person's cross-country planning, as specified in paragraph (d) of this section.

Obviously, I did not make this endorsement in the student's physical logbook. However, the advent of electronic logs has changed for many the definition of what is considered a "logbook", and in my mind, it's a reasonable thing to consider an electronic endorsement as a part of that logbook.

Next time we meet, I plan to bring the endorsement I wrote and stick it in his physical logbook so everything is nice and neat.

I think it's pretty clear that I complied with the spirit of the requirement to review the student's planning. What I'm not sure of is whether this is an accepted practice or not. And if not, why wouldn't it be?
Click to expand...


...are you sure that the next time you look at his log books / student license that you may have actually signed those endorsements with the date of the cross country, and you just forgot to mention that in this post.
 
James331 said:
...are you sure that the next time you look at his log books / student license that you may have actually signed those endorsements with the date of the cross country, and you just forgot to mention that in this post.
Click to expand...
What post?
 
I personally don't see any problem with the scenario. I'm sure when it would come to the FAA one inspector would cause a stink and another inspector would find it acceptable. With the FAA being behind the times and not fully looking into how an endorsement can be done electronically it would be a gamble to see what would happen.
 
I had plenty of xc flights reviewed online and my cfi would scan his sticker w/sign off and I would print them off and tape them in my log book.
 
My instructor was based at an airport about 75 miles away from my home field. I would regularly solo down for our lessons (in my own aircraft). Every one of my XC endorsements were in a single printed email in the back of my logbook on the day of my check ride. DPE said nothing about it.
 
I'm not a CFI, but I would go back and physically sign it when you get a chance as a CYA measure. I think you're being practical and responsible for your student, but until the letter of the law says what you did is 100% correct, I wouldn't want to jeopardize my license.
 
Playing devils advocate, but he did endorse the student and the student did have proof of that endorsement with him. It had his flight date, the CFI's signature, cert number, and date of endorsement, along with route of flight and points of landing. As far as I can tell, it is proof of the endorsement. The regs say endorsement, not an endorsement on blank white, semi gloss in black ink, just an endorsement. Now, if the phone were to be damaged in the event of an accident and the NTSB/FAA wanted to see if the student had the endorsement with him during the accident investigation, the flight instructor or student could get in hot water if the endorsement were not retrievable through other means. But then again, the same could be said if his log book were destroyed in a fire while it was in the plane as well.
 
nimdabew said:
Playing devils advocate, but he did endorse the student...
Click to expand...
The regulation specifically says the instructor must endorse the student's logbook, and this instructor did not do that.

(ii) For each cross-country flight, the authorized instructor who reviews the cross-country planning must make an endorsement in the person's logbook after reviewing that person's cross-country planning, as specified in paragraph (d) of this section.
Click to expand...
 
Well, it doesn't actually say "endorse the logbook", it says "make an endorsement in the logbook". One might argue that that slight wording difference is what makes possible the common practice of printing out a typed endorsement on a sticky label and sticking it "in" the logbook. Not sure if _I_ would argue that, but it's a thought. Thinking through this, since the practice of the typed label seems well-accepted, and sometimes it's a non-self-adhesive cut-out piece of printer paper taped in the logbook, that doesn't seem very far removed from "email an endorsement then print it out and tape it in the logbook". Then if that's acceptable, the next question is what if it's never printed? Or, rather, what constitutes a "logbook"? "A form acceptable to the Administrator" is the real answer, I'm sure, but I don't know that that has been explicitly spelled out anyway.

Regardless, this is deep into pedantry. I'm not sure I would do what the OP did, but I can't say I'm too concerned about it. Clearly he reviewed the planning, determined the student was prepared for the flight, and made an endorsement using the proper language. It just wasn't actually pasted in his physical logbook (presumably the CFI fixed that the next time they met). It would be interesting if a case like this ever came up, to see how the FAA would view it. I can't imagine it would be handled with any more than a "just stop doing that", as it's a pretty far cry from the "OK to solo" endorsement that got one CFIs certificate pulled.
 
Last edited:
RussR said:
Well, it doesn't actually say "endorse the logbook", it says "make an endorsement in the logbook". One might argue that that slight wording difference is what makes possible the common practice of printing out a typed endorsement on a sticky label and sticking it "in" the logbook.
Click to expand...
If the instructor sticks that originally signed label in the logbook, s/he's done his/her job. But that's not what happened here.
 
What exactly constitutes a "logbook" was still pretty loose last time I checked. Granted, this was a question asked to the FAA inspector doing our examiner training and not AFS-whatever, but his response was that AFS-whatever hadn't given solid guidance on that, so basically use the duck test.

Works fine after the fact, but if I were the OP, I'd be happy there wasn't an accident on the flight and always be present in the future when my student departed on a solo XC.;)
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top