Student pilot, moving in to the bay area

Artiom

Artiom

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Artiom
Hi guys,

I'm student pilot with 60 hours of flight time (6 hours of solo). I joined flight club and started PPL training last summer in North Carolina. When I had 10 hours of flight time my company sent me to San Diego, CA for 6 month. I decided to keep flying down there, joined flight club, have found CFI and kept going. It is not really easy to me to start training or switch CFI - I'm not US citizen and need to get TSA clearance for every training provider. When I come back to North Carolina I kept flying with my first CFI. He wasn't really happy about me flying with another CFI but that's a another story. And in about 4 weeks from now I'm moving to San Jose, CA area for couple years. I asked my CFI about getting PPL here in NC in the remaining couple weeks but he told me it will be a real stretch, I'm still full time employee, plus weather, plus planes and his availability makes it not real to finish PPL here. That means I will have to keep working on it in the bay area.
Could you recommend flight club or school in the bay area?
Any information about flight training in the area and your advices on how to proceed are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Artiom
 
What did your CFI think you were gonna do for 6 months? Nothing? There is a flight school in Hayward CA called California Airways. I think its on the east side of the bay not sure how far it is from San Jose but there is a CFI there named Kareem Fahimi who has a very good reputation. Perhaps other folks more local will chime in. And welcome to POA!
 
Thanks for the reference, Adam.
I don't know why my CFI wasn't happy about me flying in San Diego :dunno:. For me that was very good experience - Class D (KMYF) vs non towered airport (KTTA), C172 vs C152, another CFI with a different approach. I believe I learned a lot of stuff there. And that was fun!
 
Which airports are closest to your new residence and place of employment? I'm sure there are good instructors at every airport, but given how the traffic is here, you wouldn't want to drive farther than you have to. Depending on which side of San Jose you end up on, either Reid Hillview or Palo Alto could be the closest.

http://skyvector.com/?ll=37.362666667,-121.929111111&chart=127&zoom=3

(I doubt that there's student training at San Jose International, and Moffett is for federal government users only.)
 
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Palmpilot said:
(I doubt that there's student training at San Jose International, and Moffett is for federal government users only.)
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There _might_ be a private instructor or two who teaches out of SJC, but no clubs that I've heard of.

Note that if you are halfway between KRHV and KPAO, the schools and rentals at KRHV tend to be a bit cheaper per hour than KPAO. I suspect that KRHV is also less busy, which means less time hanging out on the ground waiting your turn to take off.

Since I live up the street, I trained at KPAO. There are at least 4 schools at KPAO (Advantage, WVFC, Sundance, and Stanford come to mind). Which one you go with depends on:

a) how price sensitive you are (some are more expensive than others, or have newer planes than others);

b) how much you prefer the social environment of a small club versus a well-run business versus a larger organization (with the corresponding large-organization politics);

c) how much value you place on having access to a large variety of planes, or a particular type of plane;

d) if you have a favourite instructor, which club they tend to teach at.

The good news: you have an astounding number of choices. The bad news: they are probably all expensive compared to NC.

Most clubs around here provide renter's insurance with club members as a named insured, which will save you a bit of money. (Ask to see a copy of the policy to be sure.)

I'd advise that once you pick an airport, go hang out at the airport and chat with folks to get a feel for the different clubs. Look at their planes, and see what you like. Talk to some instructors, and perhaps do a discovery flight or two. (I believe a club is allowed to do a 1 hour discovery flight with a foreign national before forcing you to go through the fingerprinting and other expensive TSA paperwork, but double check to be sure. The paperwork is per-club, not per-instructor -- so if you go with a larger club you still have the flexibility to changing teachers if needed.)

Chris
 
I recently got my license as a member of the West Valley Flying Club. It's a big friendly club with lots of planes and instructors to choose from, centered in Palo Alto KPAO. A nice Cessna 172S goes for about $140/hour wet and instructors at the club tend to charge $60-$70/hour. Instructors are essentially independent with some small club requirements and structure for PPL training. If you'd like specific recommendations for instructors drop me a PM and I'll suggest some names.

Some of my friends like Advantage Aviation, also in Palo Alto. Near San Jose there's also Reid-Hillview KRHV and if you're really far south, South County E16. I don't know any of the clubs there.

The Bay Area is a great place to learn to fly. You'll have fun!
 
Artiom said:
Thanks for the reference, Adam.
I don't know why my CFI wasn't happy about me flying in San Diego :dunno:. For me that was very good experience - Class D (KMYF) vs non towered airport (KTTA), C172 vs C152, another CFI with a different approach. I believe I learned a lot of stuff there. And that was fun!
Click to expand...

I would be unhappy with any instructor who got up tight because I flew with another instructor! That is a positive, not a negative.

Bob Gardner
 
Any instructor worth his salt would have said, so what did he show you - hoping to pick up a tip/pearl without having to pay for it... Someone is insecure...
Therefore as far as HIM saying you can't make the PPL on an accelerated schedule, I would want a second opinion on that...

denny-o
 
Dr. O said:
Any instructor worth his salt would have said, so what did he show you - hoping to pick up a tip/pearl without having to pay for it... Someone is insecure...
Therefore as far as HIM saying you can't make the PPL on an accelerated schedule, I would want a second opinion on that...

denny-o
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I don't think a second opinion will help much in this case. If my CFI doesn't believe it's doable switching to another CFI just couple weeks before departure to the west coast wouldn't help.

Artiom
 
NelsonMinar said:
I recently got my license as a member of the West Valley Flying Club. It's a big friendly club with lots of planes and instructors to choose from, centered in Palo Alto KPAO. A nice Cessna 172S goes for about $140/hour wet and instructors at the club tend to charge $60-$70/hour. Instructors are essentially independent with some small club requirements and structure for PPL training. If you'd like specific recommendations for instructors drop me a PM and I'll suggest some names.

Some of my friends like Advantage Aviation, also in Palo Alto. Near San Jose there's also Reid-Hillview KRHV and if you're really far south, South County E16. I don't know any of the clubs there.

The Bay Area is a great place to learn to fly. You'll have fun!
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The Bay Area is a great place to learn to fly in terms of airspace challenges, scenery, etc.

BUT renting here tends to also be VERY overpriced. WVFC is a good example - I don't think you could possibly end up at a more overpriced place then that. They're not alone, though - most schools in the area have crazy prices.

There's a few exceptions, but they tend to be somehow far away. For example, I really like these guys. That's about 1 1/2 hours from SJC, but the drive is nice and you'll have a lot more options if you're willing to drive a little.

-Felix
 
Guys,

Many thanks for your replays. You gave me a lot of information that I was looking for. I really appreciate your help.
Chris said
The bad news: they are probably all expensive compared to NC
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. Well, not necessarily. My club charges $67.19 for Cessna 152 and $111.23 for Cessna 172. Basic instruction rate is $25/hour. Clubs in KPAO are more expensive for sure. Club at KRHV http://www.flying20.com has C152 for $70 and C172 $90.
California Airways http://www.california-airways.com
that Adam pointed out to has C152 for $65 and C172 for $82-92
Will driving extra hour judge for $50/hour difference? Probably yes, but I will have to look at the exact locations and aircraft when I come over there.
Another topic is what model to choose. Currently I'm flying C152. My weight is 220lb, I'm 6'1" tall and my CFI is 150lb. I'm married and have 2 kids so I'm planning to fly 4 seater when I get my PPL. At this stage of the game it might be worth to switch to C172 which allows me to choose instructor regardless his weight and train in the plane that I will most likely fly later on. I'm getting close to cross-country stage of the training and having bigger comfortable aircraft will be nice.

Artiom
 
Artiom said:
Another topic is what model to choose. Currently I'm flying C152. My weight is 220lb, I'm 6'1" tall and my CFI is 150lb. I'm married and have 2 kids so I'm planning to fly 4 seater when I get my PPL. At this stage of the game it might be worth to switch to C172 which allows me to choose instructor regardless his weight and train in the plane that I will most likely fly later on. I'm getting close to cross-country stage of the training and having bigger comfortable aircraft will be nice.

Artiom
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If you can afford it, then "nice" is worth paying for. But if you're looking to save money, I'd advise you to stick with the 152 for now.

Being a mostly-Cessna-time PPASEL, I'll tell you that you can easily fulfill all the XC requirements in a 152, and save plenty of $$ making a few flights solo in the 172 after your check ride until you feel comfy carrying the family. The 152 is a little cramped for two adults, but for your solo XC stuff on the way to your PPASEL, it will do just fine. They perform much better with only one soul aboard, too! :D

It's silly to rent a 172 unless you really need that small amount of extra speed or you are loading the plane near max weight.
I got "suckered" into renting the more expensive 172 during my training, to save time going to/from the practice area and for XC work, but looking back, I realize it was a waste of money for me. But at least I switched back and forth, even after my check ride; that worked out well most of the time.

I've made some solo flights in 150s and 152s where I really felt I got my money's worth, whereas there were several solo flights in 172s that were just not worth paying for more airplane.


There's very little difference between the two airplanes in terms of how they basically fly, and making the transition is very easy for most pilots, even low-time pilots.
You would probably need about an hour of dual in the 172 as a rental checkout anyway, during which time you can see how easy it is with the security of a CFI in the right seat.
 
Another factor in the 150/152 vs 172 debate is "how long are your legs"? I haven't flown a 150 since I was a student pilot (and only three flights then) as I can't get the seat back far enough and jamming my legs into the bottom of the panel going for the brakes just isn't fun.

$90/hr wet for a 172 isn't bad. You can't do that where I fly (KOLM) unless you're a member of our club. The FBOs are over $100/hr when you factor in sales tax.

In any case, have fun and get it finished.
 
AdamZ said:
What did your CFI think you were gonna do for 6 months? Nothing? There is a flight school in Hayward CA called California Airways. I think its on the east side of the bay not sure how far it is from San Jose but there is a CFI there named Kareem Fahimi who has a very good reputation. Perhaps other folks more local will chime in. And welcome to POA!
Click to expand...

I only know Kareem from his red board (AOPA) posts, but he seem to know his stuff. I think his name is spelled "Fahmi".
 
AdamZ said:
Perhaps other folks more local will chime in. And welcome to POA!
Click to expand...

Local full-time instructors I've worked with who I think are fantastic include Martin Michaud and Steve Philipson. Also, pretty much any of the more senior instructors (say, gold seal) are great -- you just have to find one who suits your personality and learning style.

I learned how to fly taildraggers from Martin, and he is a master of carefully explaining how something will work before you go flying (since it is hard to see him explaining things when he is behind you) and gently explaining how to do better when you are in the air. I worked with Steve on my IFR phase checks, and he is one of the most technically knowledgeable and detail oriented instructors I've encountered.

Chris
 
I moved to the bay area and following Adam's suggestion I visited California Airways and really liked the place, people and rental rates. I started flying with Ben Brillo really like his way of teaching.
They have both wet and dry rent options. Renting dry makes more economical sense to me. I'm renting C172N because myself plus CFI together weight 440lb. Burn rate is 5.6 gal in average. I feel much comfortable in 172 then in 152.
P.S. No kissing up here - this what I really think.
 
It's good to hear that you are persevering in the quest for the private pilot certificate and that you found a setting and instructor that you like. It's so easy for things to sour and have someone walk away from aviation.

Best wishes and "git'er done"
 
Thanks a lot! My CFI set target date for check ride on mid January if weather will cooperate. I'll do my best to not disappoint him:)
 
Congrats! After the checkride if you want to get into aerobatics, tailwheel or air combat. Give me a call ;)
 
Hope your checkride goes well....I got my ticket at Reid Hillview flying with Amelia Reid aviation back in the 80's. They have a lot of good planes if you are interested in tailwheel training or aerobatics. Lot of good instructors still there.
http://www.aerodynamicaviation.com/index.php
The name has been changed since Amelia died some years ago and her son sold the school(if I recall correctly). Even if you aren't interested in going after the tailwheel signoff a few flights in a Cub or Citabria will show you what the old timers had to deal with as far as adverse yaw and other related subjects. Great character building stuff.

Frank
 
Thanks for pointers. Bay area is amazing place to fly but sometimes it really surprises me. Yesterday I had to reschedule my solo flight to the practicing area till sky cleared. Our practicing area is NW from Discovery Bay. When I approached Mount Diablo I saw this picture. Get to turn around but the view was worth that flight.
 

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Wow. Thanks for posting that. I'm applying for at least one job out in the Bay area next year, so I may be flying out there myself soon. If I'll get views like that, I can't wait!
 
Artiom said:
Thanks for pointers. Bay area is amazing place to fly but sometimes it really surprises me. Yesterday I had to reschedule my solo flight to the practicing area till sky cleared.
Click to expand...

Lately, living here has been a lot like being in Seattle.
 
Artiom said:
Thanks for pointers. Bay area is amazing place to fly but sometimes it really surprises me. Yesterday I had to reschedule my solo flight to the practicing area till sky cleared. Our practicing area is NW from Discovery Bay. When I approached Mount Diablo I saw this picture. Get to turn around but the view was worth that flight.
Click to expand...
Mount Diablo was one of my prime landmarks out there when I was a student. Our practice area was the in the valley west of Livermore that was all farmland at that time, now all houses. We flew fairly low over that valley a couple weeks ago on our routing from KSJC to KSTS. It's funny how much I remember even though it seems like another life.
 
Palmpilot, let me apologize for the way the US government and the FAA/HSA treat you as a non citizen learning to fly... Be aware that as a native born US citizen, they don't treat me/us any better...

cheers,
denny-o
 
Dr. O said:
Palmpilot, let me apologize for the way the US government and the FAA/HSA treat you as a non citizen learning to fly... Be aware that as a native born US citizen, they don't treat me/us any better...

cheers,
denny-o
Click to expand...

Huh???

Did Seattle get thrown out of the Union while I wasn't looking???

:confused:

(If so, somebody better tell Boeing!)
 
Artiom said:
Thanks for pointers. Bay area is amazing place to fly but sometimes it really surprises me. Yesterday I had to reschedule my solo flight to the practicing area till sky cleared. Our practicing area is NW from Discovery Bay. When I approached Mount Diablo I saw this picture. Get to turn around but the view was worth that flight.
Click to expand...


I took this southeast of Mt. D 2 days ago....

165434_1499156563279_1365094831_31043756_66492_n.jpg
 
Like nothing changed during the week :)
Great picture, thanks a lot
 
I don't remember ever having a lesson called off by weather flying out of RHV in San Jose. I do recall some excellent views of fog and clouds up north of the airport but the south practice area in the hills south of Santa Clara was always clear. There were a lot of days the fog was thick in the valley from stockton to livermore on the way to San Jose(I had to drive in from Stockton) but over the hill into fremont it cleared up every time. Our north practice area was over mission peak and the lake on the east side. Lots of good scenery around the bay area and a great place for training. Its a good location for learning how to see and deal with traffic and all manner of airspace as well as weather and terrain.

Frank
 
Well, I didn't fly for 2 weeks already. I hope the next week will be better. Last Saturday we planned the dual xc with my CFI with an option to fly on Sunday if weather wouldn't cooperate. We were open to anything - Montrey, Santa Rosa, Modesto - just anything that feets. But low clouds and poor visibility didn't allow us to fly. So weather in the Bay area can be challenging. It is definitely more VFR friendly then North Carolina but still, during the winter it migh be really bad.
 
Go to Columbia O22, and go eat at El Jardin! Fun airport to fly into, really fun to walk into town to eat.
 
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