Student Pilot - Intro, thoughts, questions

Quick update:

Spoke with the CFI and did it strategically enough where I wasn't coming off as being critical. He completely understood.
  • For the last lesson, we flew out towards Butler (BTP) County airport and did some landings and then went off into a practice area by there to do some other work.
  • We did the following over the last (1.4 Hobbs) lesson:
    • 3 full-stop landings
    • 2 touch-and-go landings
    • 2 go-arounds
    • Slow-flight
    • Stalls
    • Rudder techniques
  • My rudder control on take-offs has improved from the last time.
  • Landings are still a bit rough (which is to be expected).
  • Have to work on rudder control at landings; I keep wanting to lead with ailerons when aligning myself on final.
Also, I configured my Google Nexus-7 tablet over the weekend. With some trouble-shooting and setup I was able to get it working as follows:

  1. Connected to my PC via Bluetooth (with COM3 port as incoming)
  2. Flight Simulator X running on my PC, with GPSout enabled (using FSUIPC)
  3. In the Garmin Pilot app on the Nexus, I enabled a Bluetooth GPS Receiver.
  4. Wherever I flew in FSX on my PC, showed up as corresponding coordinates on my Nexus-7 running Garmin Pilot. This included direction, altitude, speed, etc.
This was pretty cool because I was able to play around with the Garmin Pilot features and get comfortable with the tablet and the app without using up any Hobbs time (hence saving $$$).


njerP.jpg


I'm still using paper charts in the air/during lessons though.
 
Hey there! First time poster and I came across this post just digging through the forums. Where have you been taking your flight training, Kross, if you don't mind me asking? I ended up doing a bit of it through PFTC, and am still in the process but will probably finish up back home over the winter. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you are with PFTC as well; I personally found that their structure is very rigid (am part 61 as well), and my flight instructor had to OK me with management just to do a dual XC before I soloed with them (I had already been past the solo stage back home before I came up here for college). Thankfully, I'll still be right about the 40 hour mark, although I had to backtrack quite a bit with PFTC, and still haven't soloed here even though I'm into the solo XC back home. Hope all is going well with the training, and we've actually had some decent weather here, so hopefully you've gotten your 10 lessons in.
 
-In agreement here with holding off on the XC, even though you want to get away.

-Plan on at least a couple of days just hanging in the pattern doing Touch and Gos until your head hurts. Hopefully, also on more difficult days with some crosswinds. It also, helps when you have days with other traffic in the pattern. This way you learn to work with the other aircraft, understanding where people are, and what they are doing. It is a good feeling when you hear several people talking, and can already picture where everyone is, and where they are going. Then you get a visual verification of this. I had a day out solo, last hour of daylight, starting to get hazy, 4 others in the pattern along with me. I really had to pay attention to where everyone was. The last thing you want to do, is turn base to soon, and cut someone off on final, especially with reduced visibility.

-Before you do your first Solo XC, your also probably going to go on a Solo where you are out in the practice area practicing maneuvers. This is a very memorable day when you get back from doing stalls on your own. It also gets you far enough away as to where you are going to have to spot the airport on your own.
 
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ebykowsky said:
Hey there! First time poster and I came across this post just digging through the forums. Where have you been taking your flight training, Kross, if you don't mind me asking? I ended up doing a bit of it through PFTC, and am still in the process but will probably finish up back home over the winter. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you are with PFTC as well; I personally found that their structure is very rigid (am part 61 as well), and my flight instructor had to OK me with management just to do a dual XC before I soloed with them (I had already been past the solo stage back home before I came up here for college). Thankfully, I'll still be right about the 40 hour mark, although I had to backtrack quite a bit with PFTC, and still haven't soloed here even though I'm into the solo XC back home. Hope all is going well with the training, and we've actually had some decent weather here, so hopefully you've gotten your 10 lessons in.
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Hey there!

I'm doing my lessons at Rock Airport (9G1), out by the Pittsburgh Mills Mall. Compared to PFTC they are extremely small and laid-back in terms of lesson-rigidity. The operation is called "Armstrong Aviation" and they basically pair you up with a CFI/CFII and you work directly with him to schedule and take lessons at your own pace.

I like it because the airstrip is very close to where I live (Northern Plum) and I can schedule the lessons around my own calendar.

I just hit my 10 hour mark this past weekend, so there's some progress there. We did landings and pattern work. The weather was perfect; nice and cold with clear skies. The plane practically flew itself! hahaha. Heck, I even had 2 squeaky smooth landings in a row!
 
MDeitch1976 said:
-In agreement here with holding off on the XC, even though you want to get away.

-Plan on at least a couple of days just hanging in the pattern doing Touch and Gos until your head hurts. Hopefully, also on more difficult days with some crosswinds. It also, helps when you have days with other traffic in the pattern. This way you learn to work with the other aircraft, understanding where people are, and what they are doing. It is a good feeling when you hear several people talking, and can already picture where everyone is, and where they are going. Then you get a visual verification of this. I had a day out solo, last hour of daylight, starting to get hazy, 4 others in the pattern along with me. I really had to pay attention to where everyone was. The last thing you want to do, is turn base to soon, and cut someone off on final, especially with reduced visibility.

-Before you do your first Solo XC, your also probably going to go on a Solo where you are out in the practice area practicing maneuvers. This is a very memorable day when you get back from doing stalls on your own. It also gets you far enough away as to where you are going to have to spot the airport on your own.
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Very good points! I like your second point; the airport I fly out of is very small and rarely has more than 2 planes in the air/pattern. But I do agree that I should get to the point where I am comfortable and able to visualize the traffic around me based on the radio chatter.
 
Kross said:
Also, I configured my Google Nexus-7 tablet over the weekend. With some trouble-shooting and setup I was able to get it working as follows:


  1. Connected to my PC via Bluetooth (with COM3 port as incoming)
  2. Flight Simulator X running on my PC, with GPSout enabled (using FSUIPC)
  3. In the Garmin Pilot app on the Nexus, I enabled a Bluetooth GPS Receiver.
  4. Wherever I flew in FSX on my PC, showed up as corresponding coordinates on my Nexus-7 running Garmin Pilot. This included direction, altitude, speed, etc.
This was pretty cool because I was able to play around with the Garmin Pilot features and get comfortable with the tablet and the app without using up any Hobbs time (hence saving $$$).

I'm still using paper charts in the air/during lessons though.
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FSX and the Nexus will be excellent learning tools to help you get your head around the use of VORs, familiarity with navigation charts, etc.

I have my students do their flight planning/charting "old school" with sectionals and a plotter, but then have them compare the same flight planned with their iPad or Nexus. Dual X-C and first solo are done completely old-school. After that, if they opt for additional solo X-C time (which most need) I will allow the use of the electronic device, assuming they've demonstrated proficiency with the old-school techniques and mastery of the electronics so they won't be heads-down when they should be looking outside.

At this point you should be focusing on getting the landings down. Once you solo, things progress very rapidly, so keep up on your knowledge test studying. I've seen too many students get to the solo phase, but then get hung up trying to get through the written. While not a requirement, my personal rule is you have to have the knowledge test done before we move into the X-C phase since you need that knowledge and I know how quickly things progress at that point.

A CFI friend and I had two students solo on the same day in August. One was hitting the books and one was putting it off. The diligent one got through his written two weeks after solo and had his license in early October. He bought a plane last week and will start his instrument training after a few upgrades are completed on it.

The second has been grounded now for two months because he still hasn't passed the knowledge test and his CFI refuses to waste his money (with concurrence from the student's dad who owns the airplane!)

It sounds like you've been diligent, so keep at it! Good luck with your training!
 
This is an excellent thread for a potential student pilot like myself. Thanks for all the good info and hopefully I can start early 2013.
 
Kross said:
This last XC trip came last weekend when our plan was to head to an airport 20NM away to do some more pattern work, but it ended up being pretty busy there due to the good weather. We had expected that and I had pre-planned a flight out to another non-busy strip 38NM from the first airport.

So after a TnG landing and a full-stop landing at the first airport, we headed to the second one 38NM away to do some more full-stops, then refueled (and used the facilities there), and headed back home. All in all a little over 2 hours on the Hobbs.
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I would wager that you did not fly a XC on that trip, did you ever get more than 60 miles from your original airport. If you did all that air work and flew 120nm round trip, you have a very fast trainer.
 
83Golf said:
I would wager that you did not fly a XC on that trip, did you ever get more than 60 miles from your original airport. If you did all that air work and flew 120nm round trip, you have a very fast trainer.
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In Laymans terms: Draw a straight line from your home aerodrome to the airport you ended up at. Or, you could draw a 50 NM ring on your sectional. This must be 50NM or greater. You could fly airport to airport within the 50 NM for several hundred NM, but it will not count as XC.

When I go out on Sunday, the airport I want to fly to is just shy of 50NM, so I am going to fly beyond my destination several more miles to another airstrip, do a touch n go, and then back track to my destination.
 
Guys, cross-country means that navigation is necessary. That's in the AIM, and 14 CFR 61.1(b)(4)(i). The 50 nm thing is the minimum to use the cross country toward your private pilot certificate. It's still a cross-country if I pop off 15 miles to KOAK.
 
MAKG1 said:
Guys, cross-country means that navigation is necessary. That's in the AIM, and 14 CFR 61.1(b)(4)(i). The 50 nm thing is the minimum to use the cross country toward your private pilot certificate. It's still a cross-country if I pop off 15 miles to KOAK.
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Instrument students need the XC hours
 
MAKG1 said:
Guys, cross-country means that navigation is necessary. That's in the AIM, and 14 CFR 61.1(b)(4)(i). The 50 nm thing is the minimum to use the cross country toward your private pilot certificate. It's still a cross-country if I pop off 15 miles to KOAK.
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The OP is a Student. Do not want him thinking he has completed any dual XC instruction, if he hasn't met the requirements.

I can agree with your statement.

I do plan to continue training to become IR rated. XC is going to have to be 50NM minimum.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Instrument students need the XC hours
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They need the 50 nm rule as well. Most -- but not all -- certificates and ratings that require cross country time require 50 nm. The exception appears to be ATP, which requires 500 hours of cross-country time, but is not one of the certificates listed in 14 CFR 61.1(b)(ii).
 
MAKG1 said:
Guys, cross-country means that navigation is necessary. That's in the AIM, and 14 CFR 61.1(b)(4)(i). The 50 nm thing is the minimum to use the cross country toward your private pilot certificate. It's still a cross-country if I pop off 15 miles to KOAK.
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Just remember that the FAA has seven, count 'em seven different definitions of cross-country in 61.1(b)(4) depending on the application. Keep that in mind both when discussing this and when logging the time.
 
MAKG1 said:
They need the 50 nm rule as well. Most -- but not all -- certificates and ratings that require cross country time require 50 nm. The exception appears to be ATP, which requires 500 hours of cross-country time, but is not one of the certificates listed in 14 CFR 61.1(b)(ii).
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Other exceptions include Sport Pilot and helicopter ratings. Also, while ATP requires 50nm, it doesn't require a landing. And there's still another version for former military pilots. Read and heed 61.1(b)(4).
 
Sorry to have started somewhat of a controversy here folks.

I actually clarified with the CFI afterwards; we weren't counting that day's lesson as XC training. Basically we had planned to fly out to an airport that was around 30NM away to do landings and pattern practice, but it was a very nice day so he had me plan a flight out from there to another airport further out, just in case it was busier than expected

While the CFI "mentioned" that it would introduce me to navigating via landmarks and XC, he apparently didn't mean that he was counting that as Dual XC which would come later.

And while I did enjoy the whole planning and longer-than-usual trip part, I did talk to him afterward everyone's advice on here, that I wanted to stick to shorter trips until it was time in the lesson plan to get to XC. He was very perceptive of what I was trying to say and we have kept to a shorter radius since.

The weather around Pittsburgh isn't the greatest this week, but it's supposed to improve on Sunday, so I'm going to try to get out again then.
 
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Also, I am keeping up with my studying during the week.

Using the Gleim Handbook, I usually go over the outline for each study unit, then read the entire unit in the handbook (usually anywhere from 40-80 pages per unit), and then I take the Gleim practice test for that unit, answering every single question in the section (doing a second practice test with the questions I answer incorrectly).

It's taking me longer with this process than just cramming the outlines and doing practice tests outright over and over, but I feel like the information is really sinking in.
 
Sidenote: Thus far, the toughest thing to completely grasp (for me in my studies) has been the use of the Wind Side of the Gleim Flight computer.

I was fine with the other conversion side, but the entire process of determining direction, speed, favorable altitude, etc is really going over my head.

I'm beginning to wonder how you (actual pilots) do this on a daily basis in your flight planning... I guess practice makes perfect? I am running through the examples in the handbook, and right when I think I have it, I test myself with a sample problem and end up getting confused *sigh*.

I've been able to grasp every other concept and info in all my lessons thus far in max one or two reviews and in-depth reading of the material. This is my second time studying the dozen or so pages in the book regarding the wind side of the flight computer and it's still slow(er) going.

Any tips?
 
The Gleim book isn't the best source for this. It's the difference between "teaching to the test" and teaching for understanding. There are much better books out there for the latter. Like, almost all of them that aren't "test prep" books.

The E-6B wind computer is basically solving the Law of Cosines -- it's literally constructing the wind triangle -- so anything else that does that (including an Excel spreadsheet -- BTDT) is fair game. I'd suggest drawing the triangle explicitly for a few sample calculations, on paper, then do the E-6B procedure. It is important to understand it as a student pilot, but once you do, there are lots of ways to calculate and/or use it. With practice, you can see your ground track, rather than your heading, toward landmarks on the ground, and this effectively does the wind correction for you. With VOR nav, you "bisection search" the wind correction angle. With GPS nav, you have a course to start with. It's only ded reckoning (and instructions from ATC to fly a "heading" where they really mean a course) that requires an explicit calculation -- a critical skill to have when you need it, but not the fastest or easiest way to do things.
 
ebykowsky said:
Hey there! First time poster and I came across this post just digging through the forums. Where have you been taking your flight training, Kross, if you don't mind me asking? I ended up doing a bit of it through PFTC, and am still in the process but will probably finish up back home over the winter. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you are with PFTC as well; I personally found that their structure is very rigid (am part 61 as well), and my flight instructor had to OK me with management just to do a dual XC before I soloed with them (I had already been past the solo stage back home before I came up here for college). Thankfully, I'll still be right about the 40 hour mark, although I had to backtrack quite a bit with PFTC, and still haven't soloed here even though I'm into the solo XC back home. Hope all is going well with the training, and we've actually had some decent weather here, so hopefully you've gotten your 10 lessons in.
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Welcome to PoA!
 
Rayden said:
This is an excellent thread for a potential student pilot like myself. Thanks for all the good info and hopefully I can start early 2013.
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Welcome, student. Tell us a little about yourself. This is a friendly group.
 
I'm beginning to wonder how you (actual pilots) do this on a daily basis in your flight planning... I guess practice makes perfect?
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In actual practice, I rarely (I could say "never" but that could possibly be incorrect -- not sure) use my E6B, especially the wind side. I use AOPA's Flight Planner (or FlyiQ) to plan the flight and let it do the calculations for me. If it is showing a pretty good headwind component and I will be pushing my fuel limits, I plan in intermediate stop. Then I monitor my GPS while flying to see if the ETA is about what I expected or if maybe the fuel stop won't be necessary. By the way, I stop at an hour left in the tanks, usually, unless I am absolutely sure I can land with at least 30-45 minutes left. I am conservative about fuel.
 
MAKG1 said:
The Gleim book isn't the best source for this. It's the difference between "teaching to the test" and teaching for understanding. There are much better books out there for the latter. Like, almost all of them that aren't "test prep" books.

The E-6B wind computer is basically solving the Law of Cosines -- it's literally constructing the wind triangle -- so anything else that does that (including an Excel spreadsheet -- BTDT) is fair game. I'd suggest drawing the triangle explicitly for a few sample calculations, on paper, then do the E-6B procedure. It is important to understand it as a student pilot, but once you do, there are lots of ways to calculate and/or use it. With practice, you can see your ground track, rather than your heading, toward landmarks on the ground, and this effectively does the wind correction for you. With VOR nav, you "bisection search" the wind correction angle. With GPS nav, you have a course to start with. It's only ded reckoning (and instructions from ATC to fly a "heading" where they really mean a course) that requires an explicit calculation -- a critical skill to have when you need it, but not the fastest or easiest way to do things.
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Thank you!

By the way, I was studying out of the reference PP Handbook, not just the study guide for the test. But even in the detailed material in the handbook I was still having issues grasping the info. I guess, to your point, Gleim books in general are probably geared more towards the knowledge transfer pertinent to testing of one sort of the other.

I plan on taking my questions regarding this to my CFI tomorrow (weather-permitting) for further expansion during our ground training.
 
somorris said:
In actual practice, I rarely (I could say "never" but that could possibly be incorrect -- not sure) use my E6B, especially the wind side. I use AOPA's Flight Planner (or FlyiQ) to plan the flight and let it do the calculations for me. If it is showing a pretty good headwind component and I will be pushing my fuel limits, I plan in intermediate stop. Then I monitor my GPS while flying to see if the ETA is about what I expected or if maybe the fuel stop won't be necessary. By the way, I stop at an hour left in the tanks, usually, unless I am absolutely sure I can land with at least 30-45 minutes left. I am conservative about fuel.
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Thank you for the info! While I do plan to learn the manual flight computer for the sake of training, it's good to hear that most pilots do end up using more "modern" means of calculation on day to day basis.
 
I did all my training on my 'weekends' as well and I'd fly 2 lessons per day, it worked well since I lived on Catalina at the time and would combine lesson 1 and lesson 4 with my commutes to town and back on my days off.
 
Rayden said:
Thank you. Just a newbie determined to conquer some anxiety of flying in general. Would be a great accomplishment when I start, and a bigger one if I finish :D
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Welcome and I hope the forums turn out to be a good source of info for you!

The training (at least for me) in itself is very exciting, so there's no rush to the finish line. I'm sure you'll enjoy it thoroughly as well :)
 
Henning said:
I did all my training on my 'weekends' as well and I'd fly 2 lessons per day, it worked well since I lived on Catalina at the time and would combine lesson 1 and lesson 4 with my commutes to town and back on my days off.
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If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to get your PPL on that schedule?

I am thinking it'll take me 1.5 years or so at the current rate. This is after taking into account the frequency of weekends we have good flying weather here in Pittsburgh. I started in October 2012.
 
Kross said:
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to get your PPL on that schedule?

I am thinking it'll take me 1.5 years or so at the current rate. This is after taking into account the frequency of weekends we have good flying weather here in Pittsburgh. I started in October 2012.
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Just under 3 months, missed a couple of weekends due to weather. I had exactly 40 hrs when I took my ride.
 
Kross said:
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to get your PPL on that schedule?

I am thinking it'll take me 1.5 years or so at the current rate. This is after taking into account the frequency of weekends we have good flying weather here in Pittsburgh. I started in October 2012.
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Why the concern in how long it took Henning or anyone else. The goal of pilot training is to become a safe pilot in whatever time it takes, not to take the checkride no matter your ability in the shortest time ever. Everyone learns at a different rate, and based on your availibility and time to train you may take longer or shorter than others.

Learning to fly should be fun, and challenging, but not rushed.
 
Because some people have a use for aviation which is why they are learning, and some people may be concerned with their rate of progress. Personally, a person that flies less than once a week has made a pretty smart observation, because it's true, people don't progress as fast due to retention issues at that schedule, and in Aviation more than most things, time = money.
 
douglas393 said:
Why the concern in how long it took Henning or anyone else. The goal of pilot training is to become a safe pilot in whatever time it takes, not to take the checkride no matter your ability in the shortest time ever. Everyone learns at a different rate, and based on your availibility and time to train you may take longer or shorter than others.

Learning to fly should be fun, and challenging, but not rushed.
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No rush on my end; I am actually loving the training part itself.

Along the lines of what iHenning said, I just want to make sure I keep a good balance of training time so I retain the training itself. Also, the $$$ factor, although a given considering that it's aviation training we're talking about here, is still something to take into account.

But yeah, while I am not concerned or anxious to be done, I do want to make sure I am benchmarking myself as much as I can. Don't care if it takes me years, as long as I'm not wasting any training/time.
 
Henning said:
Just under 3 months, missed a couple of weekends due to weather. I had exactly 40 hrs when I took my ride.
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That's really good! Needless to say, I am planning for a longer time-frame myself, haha.
 
Henning said:
Because some people have a use for aviation which is why they are learning, and some people may be concerned with their rate of progress. Personally, a person that flies less than once a week has made a pretty smart observation, because it's true, people don't progress as fast due to retention issues at that schedule, and in Aviation more than most things, time = money.
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I fly at least twice a week, well except for the last week, the plane is sick and in the shop. Some fly more others less. I have seen this common thread of almost an obsession from new students with how long it is going to take to learn to fly on this board and others. I think that comparing your experience with others and trying to extapolate from there is unfair. There are too many variables to account for that determines how long it is going to take for someone to get their PPL. I find the 40 hour minimum somewhat artificial, and I am sure there are some that are ready for their checkrides in much less hours than 40 and some who need many more. There are probably some who are never ready. I still assert that it is infinitely more important to concentrate on learning to fly than on how long it takes. As the weight loss programs say, individual results may vary.

Doug
 
douglas393 said:
I fly at least twice a week, well except for the last week, the plane is sick and in the shop. Some fly more others less. I have seen this common thread of almost an obsession from new students with how long it is going to take to learn to fly on this board and others. I think that comparing your experience with others and trying to extapolate from there is unfair. There are too many variables to account for that determines how long it is going to take for someone to get their PPL. I find the 40 hour minimum somewhat artificial, and I am sure there are some that are ready for their checkrides in much less hours than 40 and some who need many more. There are probably some who are never ready. I still assert that it is infinitely more important to concentrate on learning to fly than on how long it takes. As the weight loss programs say, individual results may vary.

Doug
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True, however there are a couple of issues that are common enough across all types of students we can draw some pretty good guidelines, one of those is that students who fly once a week or less experience a greater level of frustration with their progress and take longer. The once a month students rarely complete and when they do it's years down the road and they have 100+ hrs, sometimes before solo even. This in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but it's pretty inefficient if you have a purpose for aviation that includes just you and a pax.
 
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Most people don't have the background that Henning had before starting PPL training, making him an overly ambitious yardstick to judge oneself against.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Most people don't have the background that Henning had before starting PPL training, making him an overly ambitious yardstick to judge oneself against.
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The standard at Rainbow Air 20 years ago was that you took your ride at 40 hrs, out of the 10 people there doing their training at the same time I did one did not.
 
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