Student pilot flying with Private pilot

BladeSlap said:
In FAA land, it’s the FAA that judges if the FAAs accusation was correct.
Click to expand...
Yes, if it's a civil penalty case. Certificate suspensions and revocations are adjudicated by the NTSB sitting as an administrative court, not the FAA.
 
Lachlan said:
When I read mixed up common phrases like this, I often think it must have come straight out of Ricky’s mouth in Sunnyvale. “Think, Ricky, think!”
Click to expand...
I'll assume it was a typo or some crazy spell check thing. We've all seen plenty of them.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yes, if it's a civil penalty case. Certificate suspensions and revocations are adjudicated by the NTSB sitting as an administrative court, not the FAA.
Click to expand...

So a jury of my peers who have to find me guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, while giving me my full due process?
 
BladeSlap said:
So a jury of my peers who have to find me guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, while giving me my full due process?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, but no, the NTSB is not a jury of your peers who have to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But it is the administrative body which adjudicates FAA certificate enforcement cases. And, no, it is not a criminal case.
 
midlifeflyer said:
All the poodle needs to do is put its paws on the yoke. But it's not accepting any responsibility since you are still PIC. The bigger question is, who logs what?
Click to expand...
What if the poodle just turns on the autopilot, arms the approach and then just monitors to make sure it captures the glide slope? No need to touch the yoke.
 
midlifeflyer said:
All the poodle needs to do is put its paws on the yoke. But it's not accepting any responsibility since you are still PIC. The bigger question is, who logs what?
Click to expand...
PPC1052 said:
What if the poodle just turns on the autopilot, arms the approach and then just monitors to make sure it captures the glide slope? No need to touch the yoke.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure these questions are a moot point unless the poodle holds a pilot's license and the poodle and the pilot in the right seat are arguing over who gets to log what. Because if the poodle doesn't hold a pilot's license, it can't log anything nor can it be considered PIC, so the right seat pilot has to be PIC and can log that time. :D
 
SkyChaser said:
I am pretty sure these questions are a moot point unless the poodle holds a pilot's license and the poodle and the pilot in the right seat are arguing over who gets to log what. Because if the poodle doesn't hold a pilot's license, it can't log anything nor can it be considered PIC, so the right seat pilot has to be PIC and can log that time. :D
Click to expand...
A pilot certificate is not a requirement for all logging. PIC, yes, but a number of the logging rules don't (think pre-solo student receiving instruction since this thread is about student pilots). Those subsections of 61.51 apply. not to a pilot, but to a "person." Which, of course begs the question in the case of the poodle.
 
midlifeflyer said:
A pilot certificate is not a requirement for all logging. PIC, yes, but a number of the logging rules don't (think pre-solo student receiving instruction since this thread is about student pilots). Those subsections of 61.51 apply. not to a pilot, but to a "person." Which, of course begs the question in the case of the poodle.
Click to expand...

But if the pilot in the right seat isn't a CFI, which is how this whole thing started, the poodle isn't allowed to be PIC even if it was the student, because then the poodle would be in violation of the reg prohibiting students from carrying passengers.
 
SkyChaser said:
But if the pilot in the right seat isn't a CFI, which is how this whole thing started, the poodle isn't allowed to be PIC even if it was the student, because then the poodle would be in violation of the reg prohibiting students from carrying passengers.
Click to expand...

Notice the regs never say what seat the PIC has to be in. There is no prohibition on a private pilot flying from the right seat.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Notice the regs never say what seat the PIC has to be in. There is no prohibition on a private pilot flying from the right seat.
Click to expand...

Oh, I was just carrying over the previous verbiage. I know it doesn't matter which seat the poodle or the pilot is in. If the pilot isn't a CFI, then the poodle can't log time unless the poodle is also a certified pilot.
 
SkyChaser said:
But if the pilot in the right seat isn't a CFI, which is how this whole thing started, the poodle isn't allowed to be PIC even if it was the student, because then the poodle would be in violation of the reg prohibiting students from carrying passengers.
Click to expand...
Well, a poodle isn't allowed to "be" PIC no matter what. Neither is a student pilot receiving instruction. But the comment you replied to wasn't about either logging or being PIC.
midlifeflyer said:
A pilot certificate is not a requirement for all logging. PIC, yes, but a number of the logging rules dont'
Click to expand...
 
midlifeflyer said:
Well, a poodle isn't allowed to "be" PIC no matter what. Neither is a student pilot receiving instruction. But the comment you replied to wasn't about either logging or being PIC.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC! :)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Well, a poodle isn't allowed to "be" PIC no matter what. Neither is a student pilot receiving instruction. But the comment you replied to wasn't about either logging or being PIC.
Click to expand...
SkyChaser said:
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC! :)
Click to expand...


Now I am thinking about sending our poodle to flight school since you guys say it is possible?
IMG_22371.jpg

032_12.jpg
 
SkyChaser said:
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC! :)
Click to expand...

Can a poodle pass a medical?
 
SkyChaser said:
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC! :)
Click to expand...
Certainly not with passengers unless the poodle is current on landings.
 
Poodles are only allowed to take passengers under Pilots & Paws. It’s a special carve-out exemption.


:)
 
Last edited:
midlifeflyer said:
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, but no, the NTSB is not a jury of your peers who have to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But it is the administrative body which adjudicates FAA certificate enforcement cases. And, no, it is not a criminal case.
Click to expand...

So it’s more of a kangaroo court than a court of Justice.
 
SkyChaser said:
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC! :)
Click to expand...
I really wouldn't worry about that
 
midlifeflyer said:
I guess whatever you want to call it is what you will call it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It is what it is, but comparing the description for a kangaroo court to a court of due process, at least from Wikipedia, it seems to follow more in the kangaroo area. Why do they fear airmen having due process?
 
BladeSlap said:
It is what it is, but comparing the description for a kangaroo court to a court of due process, at least from Wikipedia, it seems to follow more in the kangaroo area. Why do they fear airmen having due process?
Click to expand...
I don't think "due process" means what you think it means.
 
Lindberg said:
I don't think "due process" means what you think it means.
Click to expand...

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a Due Process Clause.[18] Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.[19] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses as providing four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights


And 91.13 isn’t vague at all lol
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top