Student Pilot Certificates

midlifeflyer

midlifeflyer

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The paper student pilot certificate that shared a piece of paper with a medical certificate is no more according to a Rule published today in the Federal Register. They will be issued in plastic just like other pilot certificates.

Link to Federal Register: http://1.usa.gov/1KaZdBe
 
Interesting... Per that register, 2010 NPRM said they should increase the charge for issuance of a cert to $22, but they're keeping it down to a $2 replacement fee? Since when does a government agency give up the opportunity to increase fee revenue?
 
Interesting, first I've heard of this. I didn't read the entire reg but I'm wondering how one 'endorses' a student for solo, solo xc, etc. Guessing it'll all be just student logbook endorsements. Now it's the SP certificate and logbook.
 
I wonder if it will look identical to the private certificate with the appropriate wording for the student?

Now, even student pilots will be able to pick up chicks with their card:rofl:
 
A quick skim of this seems to suggest that temporary paper certificates will not be issued so the student will be unable to fly solo until the plastic certificate arrives - they estimate a 3 week turn around time. Hopefully people will plan ahead and apply early so they don't get stuck unable to solo while waiting.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I wonder if it will look identical to the private certificate with the appropriate wording for the student?

Now, even student pilots will be able to pick up chicks with their card:rofl:
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And get government discounts at hotels.
 
So if it's plastic, are the CFI's endorsing with a sharpie marker?
 
Hmm. Just got my 3rd Class and Student Pilot last week on the piece of paper. This should mean I'm in the clear and won't have to worry about this, correct?
 
charleszink said:
Hmm. Just got my 3rd Class and Student Pilot last week on the piece of paper. This should mean I'm in the clear and won't have to worry about this, correct?
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You should *always* be worried when the FAA changes anything. :)
 
"Finally, because the student pilot
certificate will be plastic, flight
instructors will endorse only students’
logbooks instead of their certificates and
logbooks. After April 1, 2016, CFIs no
longer must endorse a student pilot
certificate regardless of certificate
media. Thus, all endorsements for
student pilots will be placed in the
logbook. The validity period of a CFI’s
endorsement for a student pilot will
remain unchanged at 90 days."
 
If that's the case, why do you even need a student pilot certificate? Just get a class 3 medical and a couple of logbook endorsements.
 
MAKG1 said:
If that's the case, why do you even need a student pilot certificate? Just get a class 3 medical and a couple of logbook endorsements.
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To get a certificate number that goes into the airman database. Just a guess.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1993828 said:
A quick skim of this seems to suggest that temporary paper certificates will not be issued so the student will be unable to fly solo until the plastic certificate arrives - they estimate a 3 week turn around time. Hopefully people will plan ahead and apply early so they don't get stuck unable to solo while waiting.
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What did you see to suggest that FAR 61.17 would not apply?
 
mscard88 said:
Interesting, first I've heard of this. I didn't read the entire reg but I'm wondering how one 'endorses' a student for solo, solo xc, etc. Guessing it'll all be just student logbook endorsements. Now it's the SP certificate and logbook.
Click to expand...
Yes, it actually says that.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What did you see to suggest that FAR 61.17 would not apply?
Click to expand...

The paragraphs that said:

The FAA expects that all authorized individuals will utilize IACRA for the purpose of accepting a student pilot application. IACRA is a Web-based certification/rating application that guides the user through the FAA's application process. The FAA notes that IACRA currently may be used to submit a student pilot application and therefore will not require substantial modifications to the Web-based application system. However, IACRA will be modified so a student pilot certificate will not be issued at the time of application.

Additionally, an ASI or AST at a FSDO, a DPE, or an ACR associated with a part 141 pilot school will continue to be able to accept an application and verify the applicant's identity, but they will not be able to issue a student pilot certificate. These individuals, along with CFIs, are referred to collectively as authorized individuals for the purposes of application acceptance in this discussion.

And 61.17 just says how long a temporary certificate is good for when it is issued, it doesn't state that it must be issued. There would have to be a FAR to give someone the authority to issue a temporary certificate to a student pilot and that isn't going to happen.
 
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fiveoboy01 said:
I wonder if it will look identical to the private certificate with the appropriate wording for the student?

Now, even student pilots will be able to pick up chicks with their card:rofl:
Click to expand...

Aw Awwwwww

When I was a student pilot I craved the magical blue card that is now in my wallet. Not fair! Now every student gets bragging rights and gets to feel like hot stuff. And..... You know....... trick people into giving them GOV discounts.

nooooooooo.jpeg


Anyway. Make the card a different color or something. We need our own special club :sad::(:nono:
 
And I see the TSA is going to do the "vetting" on ALL student pilot applications.

Makes me feel safer already. :rolleyes:

You KNOW this will turn into a 3 to 4 MONTH turn-around now that the circus is in town.
 
I'm coming in brand new to this world, so I have no bias towards the old or new way.
I will say however, that I thought it was really weird to do the criminal background check component as part of the medical exam.
I have an old misdemeanor that I'm having to put on there and explain to the doctor who is doing my physical?

I don't know what the new TSA rules are, but it seems more logical to have the medical part being about the medical stuff and having <insert government agency of choice> doing the background check portion.

That being said, bad guys don't follow the laws/rules anyways so I doubt the old way or new way is going to do anything to curb an intentional criminal/terrorist act. :mad2:
 
tuwood said:
I'm coming in brand new to this world, so I have no bias towards the old or new way.
I will say however, that I thought it was really weird to do the criminal background check component as part of the medical exam.
I have an old misdemeanor that I'm having to put on there and explain to the doctor who is doing my physical?

I don't know what the new TSA rules are, but it seems more logical to have the medical part being about the medical stuff and having <insert government agency of choice> doing the background check portion.

That being said, bad guys don't follow the laws/rules anyways so I doubt the old way or new way is going to do anything to curb an intentional criminal/terrorist act. :mad2:
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There's no need for the TSA to vet citizens. There's no reason for citizens to undergo a background check to learn to fly. The TSA shouldn't be involved.
 
Matthew said:
There was a criminal background check??
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if there's an actual background check run or not, but I have to disclose any criminal background information on my medical form which seems weird.
So, now when I get my physical next week I have to explain my misdemeanor criminal offense from many years ago to the doctor. I haven't done it yet, so it may be nothing. I just thought it seemed weird.
 
mkosmo said:
There's no need for the TSA to vet citizens. There's no reason for citizens to undergo a background check to learn to fly. The TSA shouldn't be involved.
Click to expand...

I agree. I guess my only thought was that there's currently a background disclosure component on the medical exam side which seemed kind of weird.
 
tuwood said:
I agree. I guess my only thought was that there's currently a background disclosure component on the medical exam side which seemed kind of weird.
Click to expand...

There are questions about previous alcohol or drug (substance abuse) related actions, like DUIs.

And there is a place to sign off permitting FAA to look into a driver's license database. I didn't remember anything about other arrests.

I do not know what TSA and Homeland Security will be looking for. I expect there will be plenty of phone calls to FAA asking, "Where's my student cert? When can I expect it? It's been x weeks and it's preventing me from my solo." And the FAA voice will only be able to say, "I looked it up, it's in review with TSA."
 
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tuwood said:
I'm coming in brand new to this world, so I have no bias towards the old or new way.
I will say however, that I thought it was really weird to do the criminal background check component as part of the medical exam.
I have an old misdemeanor that I'm having to put on there and explain to the doctor who is doing my physical?
Click to expand...

The have asked about criminal history ever since I first got my medical 35 years ago. The point on that form is not SECURITY but to see if you're antisocial or otherwise incapable of following the rules to the detriment of safety.
I don't know what the new TSA rules are, but it seems more logical to have the medical part being about the medical stuff and having <insert government agency of choice> doing the background check portion.
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Not if it takes seven weeks. How much of a risk are student pilots anyhow?

That being said, bad guys don't follow the laws/rules anyways so I doubt the old way or new way is going to do anything to curb an intentional criminal/terrorist act. :mad2:
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Precisely, bureaucratic empire building and security theatre rather than anything real. As they said in Blazing Saddles..."We've got to protect our phony-baloney jobs."
 
flyingron said:
Precisely, bureaucratic empire building and security theatre rather than anything real. As they said in Blazing Saddles..."We've got to protect our phony-baloney jobs."
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More TSA help wanted ads on pizza boxes?
 
Matthew said:
There are questions about previous alcohol or drug (substance abuse) related actions, like DUIs.

And there is a place to sign off permitting FAA to look into a driver's license database. I didn't remember anything about other arrests.

I do not know what TSA and Homeland Security will be looking for. I expect there will be plenty of phone calls to FAA asking, "Where's my student cert? When can I expect it? It's been x weeks and it's preventing me from my solo." And the FAA voice will only be able to say, "I looked it up, it's in review with TSA."
Click to expand...

Here's the questions on the Form 8500-9 Medical Certificate (third class) and Student Pilot Certificate: (both yes/no questions and then a section to describe the details surrounding each.)

History of (1) any arrest(s) and/or conviction(s) involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or
while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) history of any arrest(s), and/or conviction(s), and/or
administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation, or
revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or a rehabilitation program.

History of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies).
 
tuwood said:
Here's the questions on the Form 8500-9 Medical Certificate (third class) and Student Pilot Certificate: (both yes/no questions and then a section to describe the details surrounding each.)

History of (1) any arrest(s) and/or conviction(s) involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or
while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or (2) history of any arrest(s), and/or conviction(s), and/or
administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, cancellation, or
revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or a rehabilitation program.

History of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies).
Click to expand...

18v (alcohol related)
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

18w (non-traffic convictions)
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/w/


I haven't seen anything yet about what the new TSA vetting process will be.

I can't imaging this will be good for anyone. How many students will get denied by TSA that otherwise would have been OK'd by FAA? And how many of those will ever get a valid explanation?
 
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tuwood said:
I'm not sure if there's an actual background check run or not, but I have to disclose any criminal background information on my medical form which seems weird.
So, now when I get my physical next week I have to explain my misdemeanor criminal offense from many years ago to the doctor. I haven't done it yet, so it may be nothing. I just thought it seemed weird.
Click to expand...
The doc doesn't care about your criminal background. Unless it involves drigs or alcohol, if he asks about it it might just be normal curiosity. It is one of the few recurring official contacts in aviation so it was probably originally seen simply as an efficient information collection point.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The doc doesn't care about your criminal background. Unless it involves drigs or alcohol, if he asks about it it might just be normal curiosity. It is one of the few recurring official contacts in aviation so it was probably originally seen simply as an efficient information collection point.
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Fortunately I have my medical exam scheduled for next week so I'll still be under the old system. If I read this correctly assuming all goes well I just have to get the new ID after the change on Apr 1. So confusing. :)
 
tuwood said:
Fortunately I have my medical exam scheduled for next week so I'll still be under the old system. If I read this correctly assuming all goes well I just have to get the new ID after the change on Apr 1. So confusing. :)
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Not necessarily. It sounds like you are getting a student certificate. They are good for 2 years - hopefully you'll have your PP by then and won't have to deal with this at all.
 
Matthew said:
Not necessarily. It sounds like you are getting a student certificate. They are good for 2 years - hopefully you'll have your PP by then and won't have to deal with this at all.
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Oh yeah, I'll have it done within the year.
 
When I had my medical this past October, my AME told me he is not interested in my character, only my ability to fly a plane. He then went on how upset he was that he had to issue a medical to a pilot with a cocaine conviction. He basically said that if the pilot was physically meeting criteria he would have to issue the medical but he did not say anything beyond that.
 
mulligan said:
When I had my medical this past October, my AME told me he is not interested in my character, only my ability to fly a plane. He then went on how upset he was that he had to issue a medical to a pilot with a cocaine conviction. He basically said that if the pilot was physically meeting criteria he would have to issue the medical but he did not say anything beyond that.
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Crow? :D
 
Showed him a few years ago the English Proficiency endorsement, same reaction lol.
 
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