Student pilot: 21 year old DUI, sober for 19 years, active in recovery

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allPrimes

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allPrimes
Yeah, yeah. Another DUI thread. Apologies. I've read a lot of them here but I haven't found what I was looking for: what to expect.

I'm not even a student pilot yet. Just spoke with someone at a flight school near me who suggested I start the medical certification process. I have.

I also have a DUI from 1999-02-07. It wasn't the first time I drove drunk but the first time I got caught. There was no accident; I was pulled over for speeding. I made a lot of poor decisions at 23 years old. During the arrest, I gave consent for a BAC. I was convicted. I completed all of the sentencing requirements. It wasn't for another two years until I realized I had a problem with alcohol. My last drink was on 2001-03-10. I have been sober and have had an active recovery program in AA for 19 years.

Sadly, I can find no indication of my BAC from that evening. I have the original arrest report. BAC not documented. I have contacted the hospital and had them check their archives. No lab results. Not even the court clerk's office has an indication of what my BAC was 21 years ago so there's literally no way to prove (or disprove) that my BAC was < 0.15. As a result, those data are missing and we move on. I've pulled together the documentation that my AME has told me needs to be forwarded to OKC. It includes a ton of paperwork (e.g., personal essay, arrest report, conviction report, documentation from the mandatory drug/alcohol class, comments from a therapist I saw early in recovery, as well as a short evaluation from a Certified Alcohol and Drug Counselor from 2001), including admissions that no, I don't drink, that yes, I'm in AA, and yes, I've been in recovery for 19 years. Essentially, everything on the first page of the Drug and Alcohol Initial here.

Though I have wanted to be a pilot my whole life (since toddlerhood!), it's only been recently that I've had the financial means to do so. What can I expect next? Likely 4-6 weeks of waiting, I'm sure, but what should I plan for? Is there a "standard" next for people in my situation? What's the likelihood that I'll have to pay $X,000 to jump through more hoops before I have a 3rd class medical certificate? I'm okay with hoops; that's what happens when you're "in the system." I'm just hoping to be as prepared as I possibly can be.
 
Pinging DoctorBruce for his input. @bbchien

However, since you said you have read other alcohol related threads, you may already have seen what he would say.

If you like, I can post my cut/paste item again.
 
Thanks, no need to repaste here.

Most of the threads I’ve seen were individuals looking to argue their way with their personal statement into drinking responsibly. I can’t. I know I can’t. I’m not making that argument. Would I fall into that same category? Urine tests regularly? Signed AA logs for 6 months? Seeing a substance abuse counselor for a report?

By the way, Texas A&M has the best marching band in all of college football. I grew up wanting to go to A&M solely to be in the band but I ended up at PAC-10 and Big 10 schools instead.
 
Good luck. No experience with this subject but I hope you get your medical, that many years sober is a great accomplishment!
 
And of course if you don’t want to fly for a living, there’s always Sport Pilot. You could have that certificate and be flying while getting your ducklings in formation for whatever it will take to get a third class cert and all... assuming you want to do more than the SP ticket will allow. Just a thought.
 
AllPrimes:

Can you document any of the assertions?
AA attendance.
Bosses or clients who know you don’t drink....
...or are you launching to a CADC evaluation?
 
bbchien said:
AllPrimes:

Can you document any of the assertions?
AA attendance.
Bosses or clients who know you don’t drink....
Click to expand...

With 6 months of documented AA attendance logs? No. With personal letters of support from professional members of the community (who are also in recovery)? Yes.

Boss doesn't know I'm an alcoholic. It's not necessarily something that most alcoholics announce to people. I don't lie when asked why don't you drink? but I also don't just go around telling people.
 
allPrimes said:
With 6 months of documented AA attendance logs? No. With personal letters of support from professional members of the community (who are also in recovery)? Yes.

Boss doesn't know I'm an alcoholic. It's not necessarily something that most alcoholics announce to people. I don't lie when asked why don't you drink? but I also don't just go around telling people.
Click to expand...
Due to a sad family history, I stopped drinking 33 years ago. Don't miss it. If someone asks why I don't drink, I say "Sad family history". And I didn't want to be a part of it.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Due to a sad family history, I stopped drinking 33 years ago. Don't miss it. If someone asks why I don't drink, I say "Sad family history". And I didn't want to be a part of it.
Click to expand...

When I was early in recovery and someone would ask "why don't you drink?" and they weren't in my family/friend circle, I'd respond with "I used to be really, really good at it." Now I don't care. If someone wants to ask, they get the honest answer.
 
allPrimes said:
By the way, Texas A&M has the best marching band in all of college football. I grew up wanting to go to A&M solely to be in the band but I ended up at PAC-10 and Big 10 schools instead.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on putting a very self destructive behavior behind you. I hope you are able to jump through whatever hoops the FAA deems necessary to achieve your goals. However, you will not get far in aviation or anything else by spreading falsehoods. Ohio State has the best damn band in the land.
 
steingar said:
Congratulations on putting a very self destructive behavior behind you. I hope you are able to jump through whatever hoops the FAA deems necessary to achieve your goals. However, you will not get far in aviation or anything else by spreading falsehoods. Ohio State has the best damn band in the land.
Click to expand...

Trust me, as a tuba player, I so badly wanted to dot the "i." Very badly. One of my favorite scenes from any football game, ever, is when there as a camera man following one of the dots onto the field during pregrame who was incredibly close to the musician and before the bell came down, and the musician even told the camera man "you better watch out!" and smacked the hell out of the poor guy.
 
Thought that I might use this thread to maintain updates as I receive them.

2020-07-06: I spoke with an analyst in the RFS office in Des Moines, WA to verify that everything had been uploaded successfully. Her comment about my documentation was that "it was over 20 years ago? I don't think OKC is going to need all that much from you."

Based upon what I've read here and elsewhere, those could be famous last words...
 
allPrimes said:
...I also have a DUI from 1999-02-07.....
Click to expand...

hey that's my birthday! well, one of my birthdays, I have many birthdays, but of all the birthdays I've had, that's one of them!


Bender Aviation said:
Good luck. No experience with this subject but I hope you get your medical, that many years sober is a great accomplishment!
Click to expand...

says the guy whose screen name is 'bender' lol :happydance: :cheers: :happydance:


also, did anyone else read the title as '21 year old...sober for 19 years'?
 
allPrimes said:
Thought that I might use this thread to maintain updates as I receive them.

2020-07-06: I spoke with an analyst in the RFS office in Des Moines, WA to verify that everything had been uploaded successfully. Her comment about my documentation was that "it was over 20 years ago? I don't think OKC is going to need all that much from you."

Based upon what I've read here and elsewhere, those could be famous last words...
Click to expand...

She must be new at the Administration.......
 
2020-07-10 0745 MT: Called OKC because, apparently, that's what you do. Recorded message, 1, hold for < a minute. Everything is uploaded and application is "in review."
 
upload_2020-7-10_16-27-50.gif


Welcome to the endless queue
 
bbchien said:
If you can show any part of an active recovery program for 19 years, I think you are going to succeed :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've got letters from counselors from the front end of my recovery in 2001 and letters from professional members of my community to indicate the last 5 years of sobriety but nothing from 2001 through 2015, other than a BS, an MS, some first-author peer-reviewed journal articles (to indicate significant changes in lifestyle from 1999!), but not much for those intervening years. Hopefully I submitted everything they need and they can make a decision with what they've got!

Regardless, today was my first lesson and it. Was. Fantastic.
 
2020-07-15: Tammi in OKC was very cheery and let me know it's still in review but that she'll put a note on my file that I've called.

Called at 12:13CT, put on hold, "wait time is 9 minutes," stayed on hold, and Tammy picked up a few minutes in to my wait.

Clearly, I won't update with every call (this is only my second), but hey, apparently I've made it to "Interested Airman" status!
 
I wonder if the FAA thinks that people who don't call are "disinterested" airmen. ;)
 
I wrote that I wouldn't update with every call I make, but I asked the operator today about a lot of what I've read related to calling every-other workday and if it really works at speeding up the review process.

Short answer? No. Time to keep my patience hat on!

This morning, Ron told me that they "flag" your file after the first time you call. Subsequent follow-up calls to check on the status of your application do nothing to push your application along. An application gets assigned to a reviewer who may have multiple applications with several thousands of pages that take a crapload of time to review or it could go to someone that has a tall stack of one-pagers. Class I and II applications are the priority and I didn't ask whether or not any I or II application will always supersede any III application but I suspect yes. Ron's analogy about calling every-other day was it's like having your house burn down and having another fire come through and burn the wreckage. It really doesn't do anything. When I asked about the ranges that I've heard about turnaround times being anywhere from 3 weeks to 10 months his response was all of those are options and anything in between.

Other interesting things I learned:
  • They process 350K applications/year. Damn. Nearly 1K/day. I'm not sure if that's just the applications that were deferred or if that's all medical certifications from every AME across the country. If yes, I'd like to know what proportion of certification applications are deferred. Might spend some time with Google on this one. Surely the stat is out there and likely easy to find.
  • Many reviewers are working from home during COVID times. Glad to hear they have that option but frankly, it also makes me worry whether or not HIPAA security guidelines are being adhered to. I suspect so, given the FAA's reliance on minutiae, but you never know.
  • There are docs all over the country making decisions on applications. Also good to know.
Happy Friday!
 
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Well just to add a piece of my experience to the timeline....I just had some documents that got sent into OKC for my case take 3 weeks to get scanned in. That’s just scanned to be able to be reviewed. If you’re hoping for fast, I’ll quote from Grumpy Old Men...”you can wish in one hand and crap in the other, let me know which one gets filled first”
 
RussS said:
Well just to add a piece of my experience to the timeline....I just had some documents that got sent into OKC for my case take 3 weeks to get scanned in. That’s just scanned to be able to be reviewed. If you’re hoping for fast, I’ll quote from Grumpy Old Men...”you can wish in one hand and crap in the other, let me know which one gets filled first”
Click to expand...

Not hoping for fast at all. Based upon what I had read on this board and elsewhere, I assumed it'd take quite a while. Thankfully, my AME uploaded all of my supporting documentation when he deferred my application to OKC and the RFS in Des Moines, WA confirmed that it was already uploaded. Hopefully 1. that negates the need to "scan" anything in and 2. what I provided the reviewer is enough for them to make a decision without asking for more. I was fairly thorough. But who knows? All I can do is be patient and learn.
 
This all sounds so familiar. Applied for a 2nd class in August 2017, honest about PTSD diagnosis from my time in the military and submitted everything the FAA requested, including the P&P exams. I received a denial 5/2019 for alcohol dependence (Legit had no clue) so that was like a kick in the face. Into AA. Into a formal recovery program. Worked the steps. I now sponsor and go to A.A. daily. Did my 1st class exam with my HIMS/AME back in January 2020. FAA finally had all of the documentation in their system on May 2nd and now I wait. I know my application, and all necessary files, are “on the desk of the chief psychiatrist in DC” and that’s about it. Thankful I stumbled upon this forum tonight as I was googling “special issuance wait times”.
 
2020-07-29: Called today (first time in a week) to check because, why not? Was asked by Dana Have you sent in your personal statement? Uhh, it should have been uploaded with my original application? Oh, have you received the letter dated July 23? No, not yet. The reviewer needs a personal statement regarding your past drug use, in detail, as well as your past, present, and future plans for drug use. Thanks Dana!

Apparently, I was not as explicit as I thought I was in my original personal statement. Regardless, Dana suggested I should write that statement and fax it back to CAMI along with my PI number. Fax is on its way.
 
allPrimes said:
2020-07-29: Called today (first time in a week) to check because, why not? Was asked by Dana Have you sent in your personal statement? Uhh, it should have been uploaded with my original application? Oh, have you received the letter dated July 23? No, not yet. The reviewer needs a personal statement regarding your past drug use, in detail, as well as your past, present, and future plans for drug use. Thanks Dana!

Apparently, I was not as explicit as I thought I was in my original personal statement. Regardless, Dana suggested I should write that statement and fax it back to CAMI along with my PI number. Fax is on its way.
Click to expand...

Ok, so something similar happened to me. AME sent my deferred medical along with all the info he knew the FAA would ask for. 1-2 months later, I got a letter asking for every single supplementary item that had already been submitted with the application. Apparently the application made it to the reviewers desk but all the supporting material was still in backlog.

I called HIMS AME, HIMS AME called OKC, got the story, instructions were to hold tight and that the FAA would eventually see what had been submitted.

Not sure if this is what happened to you, and there's certainly no harm in faxing the personal statement if that's all that was requested and you established a direct connection with a live person at the FAA (always a +).
 
KeepWatch said:
Ok, so something similar happened to me. AME sent my deferred medical along with all the info he knew the FAA would ask for. 1-2 months later, I got a letter asking for every single supplementary item that had already been submitted with the application. Apparently the application made it to the reviewers desk but all the supporting material was still in backlog.

I called HIMS AME, HIMS AME called OKC, got the story, instructions were to hold tight and that the FAA would eventually see what had been submitted.

Not sure if this is what happened to you, and there's certainly no harm in faxing the personal statement if that's all that was requested and you established a direct connection with a live person at the FAA (always a +).
Click to expand...

Yikes! That sounds like a nightmare. I certainly hope that's not what happened. If it were, I would have expected them to have asked for much more than just the personal statement. I'm hoping that's all the reviewer will need to make their determination. At a minimum, in the personal statement I faxed in this AM, I referenced previously-submitted information. Certainly hoping that this is it for me!
 
allPrimes said:
Yikes! That sounds like a nightmare. I certainly hope that's not what happened. If it were, I would have expected them to have asked for much more than just the personal statement. I'm hoping that's all the reviewer will need to make their determination. At a minimum, in the personal statement I faxed in this AM, I referenced previously-submitted information. Certainly hoping that this is it for me!
Click to expand...

It wasn't that bad. And it did work out just the way they said it would. Eventually all the info got scanned, got on the right desk, and approved........ eventually. But yeah, faxing it after they asked for it on the phone could help. All you can do is try.
 
I got the letter today (2020-08-03) from the FAA dated 2020-07-23 asking for my

detailed statement from [me] regarding my prior illicit drug use history to include frequency of [my] use, amount used, settings, the date last used.​

and I noticed that it was sent by certified and regular mail.

JDVPdVGb.jpg


I had followed up with a fax last week but should I also expect a piece of certified mail coming my way for this request, too? I only ask because in a follow up call (to make sure the FAA received my detailed personal statement) I was told that CAMI "sent a certified letter [the day they received the fax]." To me, receiving "certified" mail is a big deal and frankly, after a Googling of "certified mail and FAA" it certainly seems like they only deliver bad news via certified mail. However, the "certified and regular" mail above now makes me think that something less dream-ending is coming my way.

Thoughts?
 
allPrimes said:
I got the letter today (2020-08-03) from the FAA dated 2020-07-23 asking for my

detailed statement from [me] regarding my prior illicit drug use history to include frequency of [my] use, amount used, settings, the date last used.​

and I noticed that it was sent by certified and regular mail.

JDVPdVGb.jpg


I had followed up with a fax last week but should I also expect a piece of certified mail coming my way for this request, too? I only ask because in a follow up call (to make sure the FAA received my detailed personal statement) I was told that CAMI "sent a certified letter [the day they received the fax]." To me, receiving "certified" mail is a big deal and frankly, after a Googling of "certified mail and FAA" it certainly seems like they only deliver bad news via certified mail. However, the "certified and regular" mail above now makes me think that something less dream-ending is coming my way.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the FAA uses a mail contractor for the certified mail and the regular mail just gets dropped in the outgoing mail box. I had a letter dated 6/29 that I received via regular mail on 7/6 but didn't get the certified letter until 7/18, so don't be surprised if you don't see the certified version for a while. The letters are identical, they just send it both regular and certified, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
 
Am I the only one missing the drug references to an alcohol DUI thread? I don’t see anywhere where drug use is listed...why are you getting requests for illicit drug use? Is the whole story not told?
 
RussS said:
Well just to add a piece of my experience to the timeline....I just had some documents that got sent into OKC for my case take 3 weeks to get scanned in. That’s just scanned to be able to be reviewed. If you’re hoping for fast, I’ll quote from Grumpy Old Men...”you can wish in one hand and crap in the other, let me know which one gets filled first”
Click to expand...

This is so variable. My psych evaluation was faxed in Monday, my SI and cert arrived in my mailbox the next Tuesday. I still sorta wonder if they even read his report.
 
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