Student Loans

[Matthew]

FAA looks at ADD as a lifetime disease: if you have it, you always have it. People do learn to cope. FAA makes the rules, though, so you’ll have to do some research. One of the AMEs on this board helped a student I was mentoring. The student had a similar situation in jr high. The student got through everything with no FAA limitations, so I know it can be done.

 

[schmookeeg]

I have mentally prepared myself to go up to my eyeballs in debt.

What do these preparations look like exactly? I am picturing someone placing two 'straps' of monopoly money in their ears, then running around the room while elatedly yelling SQUEEEEE!

 

[DaleB]

What are the chances I can be making $80k/yr plus after a couple years after college if I am focused?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess approximately zip. But I'm not in your proposed career field, so I could certainly be wrong.

And if you're up to your eyeballs in debt, $80K per year probably isn't enough.

 

[Ross Herman]

What do these preparations look like exactly? I am picturing someone placing two 'straps' of monopoly money in their ears, then running around the room while elatedly yelling SQUEEEEE!

preparations you ask? 4 years of seeing the ugly side of humans selling them cars... another 2 years working with d-bag contractors in construction field along with then another 6-8yrs of jobs that got me nowhere. I want a degree to feel good about myself and I want to have a job I am proud of. I spent a long time not knowing what I want so really trying to push this career... this forum is awesome resource and very grateful of all the feed back, even yours! lol

 

[steingar]

Is that just because I cant file for bankruptcy down the road? Seems like federal student loan interest rates are better than 3rd party and easier to qualify for.

Yeah, that and more. It is the most difficult to discharge debt. I might do it were I going into a high paying field like Engineering, but not to learn to fly. Any real money is a long way off, and the costs are exorbitant.

 

[farangutan]

I started out the route of aviation degree with ratings and big loans. Even with scholarships, I amassed $60k plus In students loans and was about 2/3 the way to commercial after two years. I was working 2 or 3 part-time jobs so that cut into my time to fly. I left the program in 2006 and transferred to mechanical engineering thinking that after a few years of an engineering career and hopefully a recovery in the airline industry that I would go back. Here I am, 13 years later still paying the loans. My brother in law just finished an accelerated program, ATP, and amassed about $70k in loans for aviation and another $20k in loans to finish his bachelor degree. It paid off in that he now has a job with a regional. It will be a grind paying back those loans AND starting a family, wedding, house, etc. (Ask me how I know) I stopped flying for about 12 years and picked it back up recently to get back on course for the dream, this time paying for it cash from a second job.
I bought a share of a plane to time build and build proficiency back up. You can look into that. Less upfront overhead than buying a plane outright. Usually clubs have a member or two that give free or discounted instruction.
The allure of a one stop shop is really strong and has worked for a lot of people. No matter how you slice it, it will be a grind.

 

[Ross Herman]

I started out the route of aviation degree with ratings and big loans. Even with scholarships, I amassed $60k plus In students loans and was about 2/3 the way to commercial after two years. I was working 2 or 3 part-time jobs so that cut into my time to fly. I left the program in 2006 and transferred to mechanical engineering thinking that after a few years of an engineering career and hopefully a recovery in the airline industry that I would go back. Here I am, 13 years later still paying the loans. My brother in law just finished an accelerated program, ATP, and amassed about $70k in loans for aviation and another $20k in loans to finish his bachelor degree. It paid off in that he now has a job with a regional. It will be a grind paying back those loans AND starting a family, wedding, house, etc. (Ask me how I know) I stopped flying for about 12 years and picked it back up recently to get back on course for the dream, this time paying for it cash from a second job.
I bought a share of a plane to time build and build proficiency back up. You can look into that. Less upfront overhead than buying a plane outright. Usually clubs have a member or two that give free or discounted instruction.
The allure of a one stop shop is really strong and has worked for a lot of people. No matter how you slice it, it will be a grind.

Wow, I can imagine you $80k in loans has quite the interest after that much time. I will be in the same boat were I choose to go the route I am leaning towards.

I got a couple questions if you don't mind answering... 1.) What was the main reasons you left program? Were you simply looking to make more money than being a pilot? 2.) if you were to do it over again how would you do it? 3.) What advice would you give a guy like me starting at 31 years old with no cash saved up? Am I taking a huge gamble with these loans and should scrap this whole piloting career idea before its too late?? I am so close to making huge decisions... this is tough!!!ahhhhhhhh

 

[Matthew]

Wow, I can imagine you $80k in loans has quite the interest after that much time. I will be in the same boat were I choose to go the route I am leaning towards.

I got a couple questions if you don't mind answering... 1.) What was the main reasons you left program? Were you simply looking to make more money than being a pilot? 2.) if you were to do it over again how would you do it? 3.) What advice would you give a guy like me starting at 31 years old with no cash saved up? Am I taking a huge gamble with these loans and should scrap this whole piloting career idea before its too late?? I am so close to making huge decisions... this is tough!!!ahhhhhhhh

A couple of things to consider (I am just a simple Private Pilot):

1) Make sure you can get your medical before you start and before you apply. Consult one of the AMEs on this board and hire one if necessary.

2) It seems like there are several things to get: a degree, ratings, and experience. They don't all have to come from the same place at the same time.
2a) Degree - you could start at a Community College, get pre-reqs out of the way, then finish at a 4yr school. Check carefully with advisors to make sure your classes from the CC will transfer. That's one way to save on tuition. (You already have a head start here.)
2b) Ratings - you can go local and find a CFI to guide you through your training and ratings. Work a few jobs, pay as you go.
2c) Experience - you can't get that until you get some ratings. Again, work as many jobs as you can, and pay as you go.

There will be lots of other opinions about 2(a), (b), and (c), and there are probably some things I've missed but you don't have to bundle them all together at a place like UND. Places like that will get you finished in a shorter time-frame. Time is money, so you really have to work the numbers.

 

[TCABM]

3.) What advice would you give a guy like me starting at 31 years old with no cash saved up?

Get the medical first; you need it to solo. Be advised it may take many months and a few thousand dollars.

Read this short thread: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/add-and-the-faa-again.114934/

Am I taking a huge gamble with these loans and should scrap this whole piloting career idea before its too late?? I am so close to making huge decisions... this is tough!!!ahhhhhhhh

Taking the loans without your medical in hand is a gamble.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Get the medical first; you need it to solo. Be advised it may take many months and a few thousand dollars.

Don’t scare the guy. Those scenarios are really pretty rare.

Taking the loans without your medical in hand is a gamble.

Good advice, but one can always return the balance of the loan early if it hasn’t been spent.

 

[farangutan]

Wow, I can imagine you $80k in loans has quite the interest after that much time. I will be in the same boat were I choose to go the route I am leaning towards.

I got a couple questions if you don't mind answering... 1.) What was the main reasons you left program? Were you simply looking to make more money than being a pilot? 2.) if you were to do it over again how would you do it? 3.) What advice would you give a guy like me starting at 31 years old with no cash saved up? Am I taking a huge gamble with these loans and should scrap this whole piloting career idea before its too late?? I am so close to making huge decisions... this is tough!!!ahhhhhhhh

The interest is something I wish I wasn't a complete fool about. I've paid back around $80k but still have $30k to go. Crazy.
1. Main reasons I left were economic. The salary and job outlook for pilots in the early to mid 2000s was dismal and I was worried about entering the market with enough loans to buy a house with only a $26k annual salary. All of my teachers were furloughed airline pilots so I knew they would be first to get calls for the jobs.
2. If I could do it over again, I would have joined the military right off the bat. Most of family was in and I broke the tradition with great regret so I didn't give myself a chance to fly for the military nor potentially use the GI Bill for training. That's probably no help but the other route would have been to get my engineering degree and use that salary and savings to pay for my flight training. Looking back, I made enough money working part-time and during the breaks in school to pay for quite a bit of training if I was frugal and committed. You have only 2 years or so to finish up your degree, so worry about that and work to save money while you get your degree. After school hopefully find an entry level job related to your major and start your training hardcore.
3. I find myself to be in a similar boat to you now. I'm 34 now and I'm trying to ultimately change my career to flying. The way I'm doing it is studying for written exams from online ground schools, and flying about 3 or 4 times per month. I'm working two jobs though one would be adequate if it weren't for a mortgage and my first child on the way.
If I were you, I would save up a few thousand $$ while you do an online ground school (around $100/month). Scout flight schools nearby, take intro flights (Groupon sometimes has flights), consider EAA chapter and civil air patrol to network to find a good instructor. We are still young but we don't have forever. Search the classifieds here for good used flight training equipment.

 

[PPC1052]

preparations you ask? 4 years of seeing the ugly side of humans selling them cars... another 2 years working with d-bag contractors in construction field along with then another 6-8yrs of jobs that got me nowhere. I want a degree to feel good about myself and I want to have a job I am proud of. I spent a long time not knowing what I want so really trying to push this career... this forum is awesome resource and very grateful of all the feed back, even yours! lol

Don't discount the value of those experiences.

In all seriousness, the ADD issue has the potential to be a show stopper for you. If you go to apply for a medical now without reaching out to someone like Dr. Bruce before you go apply, it WILL be a show stopper. You will need to actively reach out to see what you need to do to have the diagnosis reversed, if possible. It can be done, but it won't just go away if you ignore it.

Also, given that you and your girlfriend want to go down the same path, it really makes it financially worthwhile to consider buying a plane for the two of you to get your ratings in. Get your degree from the community college as cheaply as possible (both of you), while you both fly the doors off the plane. You can sell it at the end for probably about what you paid to buy it. Seriously think about this option!

 

[Sinistar]

@Ross Herman - First off its good you were up front about the Question 18. Due to the way it is worded you need to disclose it. If you decide to not say anything and the FAA finds out later you will surely regret all these loans and you will have to pay them back and probably never fly again.

I really think you need to slow way down and re-compute. You are so willing to incur debt and it will be in excess of $100K easily because you are wanting to borrow everything - the college classes, flight training, room, food, etc.

I hate to say it but just getting the ADD medication thing fully resolved might also set you back into the thousands of $$$$. And its not like you just pay a bill and its over. And that is not money you can get a loan for! It might take many meetings with specialists and the FAA sending things back a few times. In other words think years or months not weeks or days. The advice here to contact the doctors (listed earlier in the thread) is your first and only play. I am pretty sure any university will happily take you and the first semester's costs, fees and loans without that medical in hand - why should they care. Then sometime during the semester when its time to fly you will eventually need that medical (to solo) and without it that first semester (unless its all in a non-aviation degree) will be a complete waste of time. And the selection of a aviation university will also be a waste unless you are in a good non-aviation program.

You cart is getting way ahead of your horse. Slow down.

What is your associated degree focused on. What interests you besides flying? I would recommend finding a smaller college that isn't that expensive and get a useful degree. Then within 4 yrs (hopefully less with the assoc degree) you will have a good paying steady job. You will be able to pay off loans, figure out the FAA medical and maybe knock out your PPL/IR/Commerical on your own. Then do what it takes to build the final hours.

Your case is a lot different from a smart/rich kid who's folks can help Jr pay for some of that expensive aviation school while they also get a degree.

 

[WDD]

.. I have mentally prepared myself to go up to my eyeballs in debt.

I would mentally prepare yourself to figure out how to do this without eyeballs in debt. Eyeballs in debt is going to be miserable.