Student and Instructor Misunderstandings/Miscommunications

N918KT

N918KT

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
716
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Display Name
Display name:
KT
Hey guys, yesterday I had my flight lesson. But I always noticed something that happens for some flight lessons. Sometimes during the flight lesson, I misunderstood my CFI.

One example I remember happened yesterday. During the lesson, the CFI asked me something about the throttle when we were on climb out of takeoff doing touch and gos. For some reason, I lowered the throttle on climbout, and he asked me why I was doing that. I told him because that is what I thought he told me to do. He told me that I should have full throttle on climb out, which I already know but I thought he told me something different. He was actually checking to see if I kept my hand on the throttle during climb out. And there is the misunderstanding or miscommunication between my CFI and me.

Sometimes, for some reason when the CFI tells me one thing, I somehow impulsively do the opposite. Maybe, I am too focused on flying the airplane to understand or process in my mind what my CFI is telling me, I don't know really.

Students and CFIs, have you ever had misunderstandings or miscommunications in the cockpit where the student does one thing opposite or wrong to what the CFI tells the student to do? Anyone ever had problems similar to mine during flight training?
 
Last edited:
My CFI had a couple of those issues but we wrote them off as "goofy". He once said "Steep turn to the right" but since we always go to the left first that is what I did. So when I was done he said "That was good except you didn't go to the right". (Uh I thought you said left) so we then did one to the right and after that I always confirmed his instructions back to be sure I heard what I thought. Eventually we got away from it and it's good but you may want to try "confirming" what he says. If they really want you to "reduce the throttle" right away he'd fling your hand off and do what he wants or told you if you don't it fast enough.
 
Anytime my CFI misunderstood me I'd just repeat the original question. No harm in being sure you understand each other. Just don't get into a verbal argument while flying :)
 
Easy way to remind student to keep hand on throttle during climbout or landing. It's a chant a CFI used to do to me to correct the bad habit of removing the hand.

Whenever I would relax my hand a way from the throttle, this would be softly heard over the intercom.

"Two Bits, Four Bits, Keep you hand on the Throttle.
For every second off, you owe me a dollar.
One. Two. Three...."​

And yes, there was a lesson where I owed him $12 or $15.
 
saracelica said:
Anytime my CFI misunderstood me I'd just repeat the original question. No harm in being sure you understand each other.
Click to expand...

This is a good practice when communicating with ATC. If you didn't understand, just go

"Center, did you say _____________, for Bugmasher 1234?
 
Thanks for the advice Kate and Mike. Seems that I'm not the only one who does this.

Yes, sometimes I ask the CFI to repeat the thing he was telling me to do, but I guess if I don't understand I have to ask him.
 
Yes, miscommunication or misinterpretation happen. It's the instructors job to constantly be verifying that the student properly interpreted their instruction. The sooner the better so that it doesn't become too deeply ingrained. It's easier said than done, and there will always be something that slips through that you catch later on.
 
Wars have been started over miscommunication and misunderstandings, so why should it be any different in the cockpit. Think about it your is noisy cramped environment, concentrating on a buttload of a number of things, and then your CFI says do such and such. It's amazing it does not happen more often. If you are unsure what the CFI said, or it just does not make any sense, ask for them to repeat it. Also remember, that often your brain will have you hear what you want to hear and not what you are actually hearing. Which is probably what happened with the turn issue.

As long as it is an occasional thing and not a persistent issue I would blame it on happenstance. If it is occurring all the time then others issues are afoot and you may need to talk to your CFI about the miscommunication problem or possibly find a new CFI.
 
Saracelica is describing a really common problem called "expectation bias," where you hear what you expect to hear. This can affect both pilot and controller in the worst case -- the controller hears a correct readback even though it's incorrect. It can be very dangerous.

Miscommunications happen. If they are routine, I might suggest a different CFI, as that will interfere with learning. If it's just once in a great while, it's no big deal.

As for taking a hand off the throttle, I've heard of CFIs using that as an invitation for an engine-out. Never experienced that, though. I imagine a lot of fouled underwear on crosswind....
 
My flight school from a while back had a simple rule, just repeat everything and confirm everything. It's as simple as "I have controls" "You have controls". If your instructor says make a turn to heading 270 say "turning left, heading 270". I found that worked like a charm and allowed you to confirm everything. It also helps train your mind to communicating while flying.. the simple confirmation is what you would do with ATC as well and it just works :)
 
Only time I had "communication" problems with the CFI was during landing training ... he would alternate soft/short or slip landings so often in the same lesson that invariably by landing 9 or 10 he would say he instructed a soft and I had done a short or vice versa. From that point on instead of looking at the 9000 foot pavement I would imagine mud or a short runway ... didn't have anything for slip.
 
It is your CFI's job to communicate with you. If you misunderstand, it is your CFI's mistake. Communication should be direct and explicit. Your brain is really busy with learning to fly.

"Add Power" or "Less Power" are examples of instructions to move the throttle.
"Throttle In" or "Throttle Out" are examples of the same thing.
So is "Push Throttle" and "Pull Throttle". In each case, you should understand immediately what is wanted.

"Decrease Power" and "Increase Power" should not be used since it is easy to mistake one for the other.

"Throttle?" and "Throttle!" are examples of poor communication since the student must try to figure out whether it is instruction or question and what is expected. Likewise, just tapping on the throttle to draw attention to it is poor practice. Unless you have many hours of experience with this instructor and know what he/she wants.

In your case, the instructor wanted your hand on the throttle. Now you have a reason for a discussion. What would you prefer to have him say? Find out at what point your instructor wants you to remove your hand from the throttle. Is it OK to take it off after you have leveled off? Does he want your hand on the throttle at all times? What is the reason? Do you have a way of making sure the throttle does not back off or go in when your hand is off? Are you comfortable with your hand on the throttle? Why? Do you have a tendency to push or pull the throttle when you are tense? Do you have a feel for how you are pushing and pulling? Do you have a feel for the usual settings? How does all this affect your flying?
 
It happens. Once me and my instructor got so confused that after we realized what happened we couldn't stop laughing about it.
 
AuntPeggy said:
It is your CFI's job to communicate with you. If you misunderstand, it is your CFI's mistake. Communication should be direct and explicit. Your brain is really busy with learning to fly.

"Add Power" or "Less Power" are examples of instructions to move the throttle.
"Throttle In" or "Throttle Out" are examples of the same thing.
So is "Push Throttle" and "Pull Throttle". In each case, you should understand immediately what is wanted.

"Decrease Power" and "Increase Power" should not be used since it is easy to mistake one for the other.

"Throttle?" and "Throttle!" are examples of poor communication since the student must try to figure out whether it is instruction or question and what is expected. Likewise, just tapping on the throttle to draw attention to it is poor practice. Unless you have many hours of experience with this instructor and know what he/she wants.

In your case, the instructor wanted your hand on the throttle. Now you have a reason for a discussion. What would you prefer to have him say? Find out at what point your instructor wants you to remove your hand from the throttle. Is it OK to take it off after you have leveled off? Does he want your hand on the throttle at all times? What is the reason? Do you have a way of making sure the throttle does not back off or go in when your hand is off? Are you comfortable with your hand on the throttle? Why? Do you have a tendency to push or pull the throttle when you are tense? Do you have a feel for how you are pushing and pulling? Do you have a feel for the usual settings? How does all this affect your flying?
Click to expand...
Good point.
 
AuntPeggy said:
It is your CFI's job to communicate with you. If you misunderstand, it is your CFI's mistake. Communication should be direct and explicit. Your brain is really busy with learning to fly.

"Add Power" or "Less Power" are examples of instructions to move the throttle.
"Throttle In" or "Throttle Out" are examples of the same thing.
So is "Push Throttle" and "Pull Throttle". In each case, you should understand immediately what is wanted.

"Decrease Power" and "Increase Power" should not be used since it is easy to mistake one for the other.

"Throttle?" and "Throttle!" are examples of poor communication since the student must try to figure out whether it is instruction or question and what is expected. Likewise, just tapping on the throttle to draw attention to it is poor practice. Unless you have many hours of experience with this instructor and know what he/she wants.

In your case, the instructor wanted your hand on the throttle. Now you have a reason for a discussion. What would you prefer to have him say? Find out at what point your instructor wants you to remove your hand from the throttle. Is it OK to take it off after you have leveled off? Does he want your hand on the throttle at all times? What is the reason? Do you have a way of making sure the throttle does not back off or go in when your hand is off? Are you comfortable with your hand on the throttle? Why? Do you have a tendency to push or pull the throttle when you are tense? Do you have a feel for how you are pushing and pulling? Do you have a feel for the usual settings? How does all this affect your flying?
Click to expand...

No.

If I say 2+2=4 a million times, and you always answer 5 every time when I ask you what 2+2=, you have a learning problem.
 
danhagan said:
Only time I had "communication" problems with the CFI was during landing training ... he would alternate soft/short or slip landings so often in the same lesson that invariably by landing 9 or 10 he would say he instructed a soft and I had done a short or vice versa. From that point on instead of looking at the 9000 foot pavement I would imagine mud or a short runway ... didn't have anything for slip.
Click to expand...

My instructor liked to tell me what I sort of landing I was going to do before we took off, and of course I promptly forgot. I'd always check in with him again around when starting my descent about what kind of landing I was supposed to do.
 
An instructor acquaintance and the instructor's student once put a taildragger on its back. The student had hearing difficulties and on roll-out (after a wheel landing), the instructor asked if he was on the brakes. The only word he heard was "Brakes", so he stomped on 'em.

Over they went.
 
Paraphrasing the repeat back is a good tool to combat miscommunications. You have to think about what you heard in order to phrase it differently instead of just echoing it without thinking. Has the same effect on the person that you are responding to. Confirmation of the correctness of the repeat back is a further step. These methods are used and expected in the control room of at least some nuclear plants.
 
EdFred said:
No.

If I say 2+2=4 a million times, and you always answer 5 every time when I ask you what 2+2=, you have a learning problem.
Click to expand...

Ted has an analogy I liked. It goes something like this:
If speaking to a room of 200 and 1 person doesn't understand it is likely their fault. If only 1 person in the room understands you it is your fault.
 
I've lost track of the number of times that sort of thing has happened between me and my trainees. It's one of those things that happens when humans attempt to communicate. The key to getting past it is the instructor's ability to tell when it happens and provide additional input in a different manner or phrasing to get the message across successfully.
 
EdFred said:
No.

If I say 2+2=4 a million times, and you always answer 5 every time when I ask you what 2+2=, you have a learning problem.
Click to expand...

Have you ever considered that 2+2=5?:wink2:
 
AggieMike88 said:
Easy way to remind student to keep hand on throttle during climbout or landing. It's a chant a CFI used to do to me to correct the bad habit of removing the hand.

Whenever I would relax my hand a way from the throttle, this would be softly heard over the intercom.
"Two Bits, Four Bits, Keep you hand on the Throttle.
For every second off, you owe me a dollar.
One. Two. Three...."
​
And yes, there was a lesson where I owed him $12 or $15.
Click to expand...

I learned to keep my hand on the throttle as that is the best way to keep the CFI in the right seat from pulling it. I don't trust those sneaky characters. :D
 
I had some mental problems with the throttle too. It seemed like pushing the throttle in was turning it off. You'll get better at things the more you understand the plane.
 
As a newbie instructor I learned in a hurry to use "correct," instead of "right." Came in real handy when I was instructing in twins.

Bob Gardner
 
Yes, I imagine telling the student to feather the right engine might be a problem if the left one "failed...."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top