Stranded - AOG

When I discovered that Cherokees have the battery under the rear seat I learned to hand prop. Its a big voltage drop. Get a hot day, weak battery, and you may not get it going. I've hand propped mine and others a couple times, but I try hard not to make a habit of it.

Glad our plucky OP made his way safely back to our shared home drome. Always feel better when the aircraft is home snug in its hangar.
 
steingar said:
Glad our plucky OP made his way safely back to our shared home drome. Always feel better when the aircraft is home snug in its hangar.
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Thanks Steingar, was at TZR last night to swap and make a test flight. Indeed, my pristine-looking old one won't accept a charge when I put it on the BatteryMinder. The charger just says Nope, Won't Do It. :no:
 
Tom-D said:
no.... those are not OEM for the 170, or early 172. that is why I asked for a picture of the one you have.
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Sorry, the pictures didn't load earlier today. Here they are, whatcha thinking Tom?


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iflyvfr said:
Thanks Steingar, was at TZR last night to swap and make a test flight. Indeed, my pristine-looking old one won't accept a charge when I put it on the BatteryMinder. The charger just says Nope, Won't Do It. :no:
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Just for grins and giggles (and so I don't have to dig through three or four pages of posts) was that a sealed battery or could you check the electrolyte level?

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Just for grins and giggles (and so I don't have to dig through three or four pages of posts) was that a sealed battery or could you check the electrolyte level?

Jim
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Sealed battery from Concorde.
 
iflyvfr said:
Thanks Steingar, was at TZR last night to swap and make a test flight. Indeed, my pristine-looking old one won't accept a charge when I put it on the BatteryMinder. The charger just says Nope, Won't Do It. :no:
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Well hello from KOSU :p

You should bring the battery by. I can force charge it to attempt a recovery, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
 
iflyvfr said:
Sorry, the pictures didn't load earlier today. Here they are, whatcha thinking Tom?
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I'm thinking I don't want that one either, that is not a original re-lay, it's been replaced at some point.

I was going to offer you 50 bucks for the old one if it was a OEM.

The Original was a square box with a clear plastic cover. But of course we wouldn't be having this conversation if you had a OEM, they never fail, but if you have one that is intermittent you'd fix it.
 
iflyvfr said:
Thanks for your input, problem identified. At rest the battery was reading 12 volts. With a load, 4 volts. My mechanic said "That ain't gonna cut it."
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Anticept said:
Well hello from KOSU :p

You should bring the battery by. I can force charge it to attempt a recovery, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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Based on the OP's post above, please diagnose what you think the issue is and why a "force charge" would successfully result in a functioning battery.
 
3393RP said:
Based on the OP's post above, please diagnose what you think the issue is and why a "force charge" would successfully result in a functioning battery.
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It often doesn't as they are usually too far gone, but sometimes I get lucky. I have extended the life out of an old battery by pumping a rapid pulsing, very high current through it. However, I've got that charger out for repairs, so I'll just resort to using my DC power supply and seeing what we can feed the battery.

Also, smart chargers may not work on a heavily drained battery. They look for a voltage as a safety first to make sure someone doesn't hook it up to the wrong kind of battery, or incorrectly. For 12v, usually the cutoff is around 7-8v.

Someone left the master on in our club warrior over the weekend and I had to hit it with another battery before it would even be recognized by our charger. It was also a Concorde RG-35AXC. So far though, I've had better luck with Concord than Gil batteries...

I admit I've only been loosely following this thread, sorry if I missed something.
 
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iflyvfr said:
Sealed battery from Concorde.
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Flooded Cell, Gell Cell, or AGM? Gell Cells are really fragile with regards to charging voltage. If your voltage regulator is set up for a flooded cell or AGM, it will ruin a Gell Cell in pretty short order. All the chargers for Gell Cells are restricted to 14.1 volts in the GC setting. Any more than that and it gets ruined.
 
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Anticept said:
It often doesn't as they are usually too far gone, but sometimes I get lucky. I have extended the life out of an old battery by pumping a rapid pulsing, very high current through it. However, I've got that charger out for repairs, so I'll just resort to using my DC power supply and seeing what we can feed the battery.

Also, smart chargers may not work on a heavily drained battery. They look for a voltage as a safety first to make sure someone doesn't hook it up to the wrong kind of battery, or incorrectly. For 12v, usually the cutoff is around 7-8v.

Someone left the master on in our club warrior over the weekend and I had to hit it with another battery before it would even be recognized by our charger. It was also a Concorde RG-35AXC. So far though, I've had better luck with Concord than Gil batteries...

I admit I've only been loosely following this thread, sorry if I missed something.
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A flooded cell sometimes you can make a sulfation bridge break that way, a Gell cell will only get worse, if not explode, an AGM will over heat.
 
I am familiar with how the battery chemistries and designs work, and the risks. Concorde batteries are AGM. If the battery is already going to be replaced, it's worth trying. With AGM, we just need to be careful of the temperatures.

Sometimes applying a high voltage in bursts can break up the sulfate crystals too.
 
Anticept said:
If the battery is already going to be replaced, it's worth trying.
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Why, What are you going to do with the battery after you go to this trouble?

Have you ever read the ICAs for the battery ?
 
Anticept said:
I am familiar with how the battery chemistries and designs work, and the risks. Concorde batteries are AGM. If the battery is already going to be replaced, it's worth trying. With AGM, we just need to be careful of the temperatures.

Sometimes applying a high voltage in bursts can break up the sulfate crystals too.
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AGM batteries can't be fixed that way because it's not how they work, they don't have sulfation bridges suspended in a liquid where you can break them through the bubbling and plate vibration that causes.
 
Tom-D said:
Why, What are you going to do with the battery after you go to this trouble?

Have you ever read the ICAs for the battery ?
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It can be used for things like wenches winches to help pull aircraft back into the hangar. I also like to experiment :). Unless it passes the load and capacity test, I wouldn't recommend putting it back in an aircraft.

Henning said:
AGM batteries can't be fixed that way because it's not how they work, they don't have sulfation bridges suspended in a liquid where you can break them through the bubbling and plate vibration that causes.
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Sulfation is caused by crystallization of sulfate ions on the plates. It doesn't matter if it's wet cell, or AGM. AGM is just impregnated fiberglass with electrolyte, and while resistant, it can still undergo the same sulfate crystallization. High voltage serves a different purpose, by trying to burn the sulfates off by forcing current through instead of vibrating them lose. For flooded batteries, pulsing high current is preferred.
 
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Anticept said:
It can be used for things like wenches to help pull aircraft back into the hangar.
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my experiences with recycled batteries, proves to me that the manufacturers have it down to the day on how long they will last.
 
Anticept said:
It can be used for things like wenches winches to help pull aircraft back into the hangar. I also like to experiment :). Unless it passes the load and capacity test, I wouldn't recommend putting it back in an aircraft.



Sulfation is caused by crystallization of sulfate ions on the plates. It doesn't matter if it's wet cell, or AGM. AGM is just impregnated fiberglass with electrolyte, and while resistant, it can still undergo the same sulfate crystallization. High voltage serves a different purpose, by trying to burn the sulfates off by forcing current through instead of vibrating them lose. For flooded batteries, pulsing high current is preferred.
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I stopped by Lane after work and picked up a replacement Concorde 25XC, exactly what I had in it. Put a boost charge on it and dropped it in place. Flew it twice this weekend and all is good. I have the old battery in that box and would be glad to drop it off for some experimenting. I live inside OSU's Class D so it would be simple & convenient to drop it off.
 
Just buy a new battery for your $100,000.00 airplane for Christ's sake ...
 
The most effective thing I have found for reviving a battery is to drop it 6-9"s a couple of times onto a concrete floor.
 
Henning said:
The most effective thing I have found for reviving a battery is to drop it 6-9"s a couple of times onto a concrete floor.
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And when the case splits and spills sulfuric acid all over the concrete, does that clean the concrete pretty well???

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
And when the case splits and spills sulfuric acid all over the concrete, does that clean the concrete pretty well???

Jim
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Hasn't happened yet, but yes, I have dumped over a dead battery or two over stains on concrete to remove them.:lol:
 
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