Straight in at uncontrolled field

Here's what I was taught and what I continue to practice...

Straight-in's at an uncontrolled field are not polite and most importantly, other pilots don't really like it.. It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern.. The only exception to a straight in approach would be conducting an instrument approach (ie: RNAV, VOR, ILS) making frequent position reports on the CTAF (FRANKLIN CO. TRAFFIC, CESSNA N123NM, 6mi FINAL, INBOUND ILS19, FULL STOP, FRANKLIN CO) .

Back in late May, we were out with the local glider club flying the ole' ASK-21's and blanik's, when this guy out of no where decided to shoot a straight in approach to the runway with (2) of our gliders already in the pattern, not a smart move buddy!
 
What's the problem?

Aircraft on final have right away. If your downwind and someone is on final so what? If they are right there you extend and everyone behind follows and if they are way out you land in front.

Why does it have to be hard? The regs spell it out.
 
What's the problem?

Aircraft on final have right away. If your downwind and someone is on final so what? If they are right there you extend and everyone behind follows and if they are way out you land in front.

Why does it have to be hard? The regs spell it out.
 
akpilot907 said:
The only exception to a straight in approach would be conducting an instrument approach (ie: RNAV, VOR, ILS) making frequent position reports on the CTAF (FRANKLIN CO. TRAFFIC, CESSNA N123NM, 6mi FINAL, INBOUND ILS19, FULL STOP, FRANKLIN CO) .
Click to expand...

And on that topic...

Please remember that position reports on CTAF are VFR calls. When I was doing my initial training in Harrison, AR, "BAKKY inbound" didn't tell me a f'ing thing.

This is about the only thing these days that causes me To play "radio nazi". If I hear a position report referencing an IFR fix, I'll sometimes respond with "and what, exactly, does that mean to a VFR pilot?" This IF the frequency isn't too crowded, of course. If it is then I'll just announce ATITAPA. :wink2:
 
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Captain said:
Why does it have to be hard? The regs spell it out.
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It doesn't and they do.

I just feel better landing after having checked out the field from overhead.

My landings tend to be more consistent when executed from a pattern, and I think I spend more time within gliding range of the airport - in my experience most of the pilots coming straight in are on too shallow an approach angle to make the field if the engine dies.

Finally, from my position over the field I think I'm also in a better position to make allowances and adjustments when I hear someone legally announce a straight in. As I said, it's been a VERY long time since I've had a major conflict with other arriving traffic, no matter how they've chosen to arrive.
 
Joining the pattern in the downwind is safer at a non-towered field. Especially if there are NORDO aircraft there.
 
akpilot907 said:
Straight-in's at an uncontrolled field are not polite and most importantly, other pilots don't really like it.. It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern.. The only exception to a straight in approach would be conducting an instrument approach (ie: RNAV, VOR, ILS) making frequent position reports on the CTAF (FRANKLIN CO. TRAFFIC, CESSNA N123NM, 6mi FINAL, INBOUND ILS19, FULL STOP, FRANKLIN CO).
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How so?
 
roncachamp said:
How so?
Click to expand...

Because the folks in the pattern frequently forget that there could be straight-ins to any of the airports runways and get task fixated on the plane in front of them.

The problem are not the straight-ins, the problem are the pattern flyers who forget about them.
 
timwinters said:
And on that topic...

Please remember that position reports on CTAF are VFR calls. When I was doing my initial training in Harrison, AR, "BAKKY inbound" didn't tell me a f'ing thing.

This is about the only thing these days that causes me To play "radio nazi". If I hear a position report referencing an IFR fix, I'll sometimes respond with "and what, exactly, does that mean to a VFR pilot?" This IF the frequency isn't too crowded, of course. If it is then I'll just announce ATITAPA. :wink2:
Click to expand...

ADVISORY CIRCULAR 90-42F TRAFFIC ADVISORY PRACTICES AT AIRPORTS WITHOUT OPERATING CONTROL TOWERS


11. EXAMPLES OF SELF-ANNOUNCE PHRASEOLOGIES. It should be noted that aircraft operating to or from another nearby airport may be making self-announce broadcasts on the same UNICOM or MULTICOM frequency. To help identify one airport from another, the airport name should be spoken at the beginning and end of each self-announce transmission.

(3) Practice Instrument Approach:

STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME - FINAL APPROACH FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY THREE FIVE STRAWN.

STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH COMPLETED OR TERMINATED RUNWAY THREE FIVE STRAWN.
 
weilke said:
Because the folks in the pattern frequently forget that there could be straight-ins to any of the airports runways and get task fixated on the plane in front of them.

The problem are not the straight-ins, the problem are the pattern flyers who forget about them.
Click to expand...

Exactly correct, but I suspect akpilot907 does not see it that way.
 
roncachamp said:
ADVISORY CIRCULAR 90-42F TRAFFIC ADVISORY PRACTICES AT AIRPORTS WITHOUT OPERATING CONTROL TOWERS


11. EXAMPLES OF SELF-ANNOUNCE PHRASEOLOGIES. It should be noted that aircraft operating to or from another nearby airport may be making self-announce broadcasts on the same UNICOM or MULTICOM frequency. To help identify one airport from another, the airport name should be spoken at the beginning and end of each self-announce transmission.

(3) Practice Instrument Approach:

STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME - FINAL APPROACH FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY THREE FIVE STRAWN.

STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH COMPLETED OR TERMINATED RUNWAY THREE FIVE STRAWN.
Click to expand...

Despite the AC, I teach my students to make their calls based on direction and distance, not waypoints only familiar to IFR pilots. Reporting ARKET inbound doesn't give any sense if time/distance to the VFR pilot in the pattern.
 
LDJones said:
Despite the AC, I teach my students to make their calls based on direction and distance, not waypoints only familiar to IFR pilots. Reporting ARKET inbound doesn't give any sense if time/distance to the VFR pilot in the pattern.
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Pilot's estimates of distance are often very inaccurate. I prefer to hear calls over the fix because it's a known location. I make calls using both.
 
akpilot907 said:
Here's what I was taught and what I continue to practice...

Straight-in's at an uncontrolled field are not polite and most importantly, other pilots don't really like it.. It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern.. The only exception to a straight in approach would be conducting an instrument approach (ie: RNAV, VOR, ILS) making frequent position reports on the CTAF (FRANKLIN CO. TRAFFIC, CESSNA N123NM, 6mi FINAL, INBOUND ILS19, FULL STOP, FRANKLIN CO) .

Back in late May, we were out with the local glider club flying the ole' ASK-21's and blanik's, when this guy out of no where decided to shoot a straight in approach to the runway with (2) of our gliders already in the pattern, not a smart move buddy!
Click to expand...

We have a single runway and gliders and powered aircraft share it. There are many times a powered aircraft will do a straight in with a glider on downwind. If needed the powered aircraft will go around or breakout and reenter but it's not a big deal. Most of the time the pilots work it out so that the powered aircraft lands from the straight-in. I really don't see the reason for all the drama between pilots at other airfields concerning straight-in arrivals. If you know what you're doing, you sequence yourself into the flow and nobody needs to be inconvenienced. I've seen clueless pilots on every leg of the pattern do stupid things because they weren't looking out the friggin window and clearing.
 
roncachamp said:
Pilot's estimates of distance are often very inaccurate. I prefer to hear calls over the fix because it's a known location.
Click to expand...

When I'm flying an instrument approach, I use the distances printed on the chart, not an estimate.

I make calls using both.
Click to expand...

Same here.
 
Palmpilot said:
When I'm flying an instrument approach, I use the distances printed on the chart, not an estimate.
Click to expand...

'8 mile final, GPS approach rwy 13' tells the VFR pilot a lot more than 'at GIMPF'.
 
roncachamp said:
How so?
Click to expand...

When I said, "It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern".. Someone already said it, but what I was getting at was other acft w/out radios, already in the pattern. Complacent people do exist in this world... Some could forget, I guess what I was trying to get at roncachamp is that I, along with lots of other pilots, were taught that playing by the rules and entering the pattern the correct way is courteous for each-other. I didn't join this feed to play this game of I'm right, your wrong.. That's my perspective on this approach.
 
akpilot907 said:
When I said, "It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern".. Someone already said it, but what I was getting at was other acft w/out radios, already in the pattern. Complacent people do exist in this world... Some could forget, I guess what I was trying to get at roncachamp is that I, along with lots of other pilots, were taught that playing by the rules and entering the pattern the correct way is courteous for each-other. I didn't join this feed to play this game of I'm right, your wrong.. That's my perspective on this approach.
Click to expand...

A straight-in approach does not violate the rules.
 
Captain said:
What's the problem?
Aircraft on final have right away. If your downwind and someone is on final so what? If they are right there you extend and everyone behind follows and if they are way out you land in front.
Why does it have to be hard? The regs spell it out.
Click to expand...

The problem is, a glider is a glider, it glides.. When it's 800ft agl in the pattern about to turn base.. It has right away, even over a powered acft on final. I would think it's because a powered acft is most maneuverable and has the option to, "GO AROUND". At the time, it didn't seem like a good move of the pilot conducting the straight in landing with gliders in the vicinity. For safety's sake, I would have noted the glider's position and entered the pattern accordingly, shoulda-woulda-coulda
 
akpilot907 said:
I agree 100% with you there roncachamp, but never did I mention violating the rules.. What I was implying was, SAFETY and COURTESY.
Click to expand...

You implied it violated the rules.

akpilot907 said:
When I said, "It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern".. Someone already said it, but what I was getting at was other acft w/out radios, already in the pattern. Complacent people do exist in this world... Some could forget, I guess what I was trying to get at roncachamp is that I, along with lots of other pilots, were taught that playing by the rules and entering the pattern the correct way is courteous for each-other. I didn't join this feed to play this game of I'm right, your wrong.. That's my perspective on this approach.
Click to expand...
 
Would you look at that..! You got me there, I should of used better choice of vocab. You got me!
 
akpilot907 said:
Here's what I was taught and what I continue to practice...

Straight-in's at an uncontrolled field are not polite and most importantly, other pilots don't really like it.. It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern.. The only exception to a straight in approach would be conducting an instrument approach (ie: RNAV, VOR, ILS) making frequent position reports on the CTAF (FRANKLIN CO. TRAFFIC, CESSNA N123NM, 6mi FINAL, INBOUND ILS19, FULL STOP, FRANKLIN CO) .

Back in late May, we were out with the local glider club flying the ole' ASK-21's and blanik's, when this guy out of no where decided to shoot a straight in approach to the runway with (2) of our gliders already in the pattern, not a smart move buddy!
Click to expand...

AuntPeggy said:
Joining the pattern in the downwind is safer at a non-towered field. Especially if there are NORDO aircraft there.
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
How so?
Click to expand...

weilke said:
Because the folks in the pattern frequently forget that there could be straight-ins to any of the airports runways and get task fixated on the plane in front of them.

The problem are not the straight-ins, the problem are the pattern flyers who forget about them.
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
Exactly correct, but I suspect akpilot907 does not see it that way.
Click to expand...

akpilot907 said:
When I said, "It can be unsafe if there is traffic already in the pattern".. Someone already said it, but what I was getting at was other acft w/out radios, already in the pattern. Complacent people do exist in this world... Some could forget, I guess what I was trying to get at roncachamp is that I, along with lots of other pilots, were taught that playing by the rules and entering the pattern the correct way is courteous for each-other. I didn't join this feed to play this game of I'm right, your wrong.. That's my perspective on this approach.
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
A straight-in approach does not violate the rules.
Click to expand...

akpilot907 said:
I agree 100% with you there roncachamp, but never did I mention violating the rules.. What I was implying was, SAFETY and COURTESY.
Click to expand...

roncachamp said:
You implied it violated the rules.
Click to expand...
No, he didn't. He stated that a straight-in is discourteous and unsafe. I agree

When traffic is above (or below) traffic pattern, they are less visible to traffic at pattern altitude. A descending straight-in is likely to be above the pattern traffic, and therefore less visible.

When aircraft are turning in the pattern, their banked wings make them more visible to other traffic. A straight-in approach does not present a banked view.

When traffic joins the downwind, other traffic is more likely to anticipate the actions of that traffic and adjust speed, spacing, and location to accommodate. When traffic joins the pattern straight-in it can come as a surprise to those already in the pattern and adjustment can be more of a problem.

When traffic is coming straight-in and announces several miles away, secure in the knowledge that they have the right-of-way over all other traffic, there might be a tendency to expect everyone else to see-and-avoid. Their blinders might be just a little too tight.

As mentioned, as in many other things in life, straight-in is legal, straight-in has the right-of-way over others. But, straight-in is less courteous and less safe.
 
akpilot907 said:
Would you look at that..! You got me there, I should of used better choice of vocab. You got me!
Click to expand...

Well, I knew what you meant, anyway.

It's been stipulated since the beginning of the thread that a straight in approach is a legal option.

It really does not need to be endlessly reiterated.

And Aunt Peggy, akpilot907 did use the expression "play by the rules", which was a poor turn of phrase in this case.
 
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Thanks, Fast Eddie.. I couldn't agree more. I was never good at debate in school.. Maybe that's why the teacher told me to never return., but this was beating a dead horse... I loose.. :mad2::dunno::rofl:
 
roncachamp said:
Pilot's estimates of distance are often very inaccurate. I prefer to hear calls over the fix because it's a known location. I make calls using both.
Click to expand...

It is exactly where I make my calls, but I don't use the name of the fix specifically because VFR pilots won't have a clue where I'm at.
 
AuntPeggy said:
No, he didn't. He stated that a straight-in is discourteous and unsafe. I agree
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You quoted me, so I feel addressed.

I disagree with you. Ignoring or cutting off an aircraft that is on a perfectly legal straight-in is discorteus and unsafe. If everyone keeps their radio on the right frequency and/or keeps their eyes in the right places, there is nothing more or less safe about a straight-in.
 
At some airfields the local terrain makes a straight in the only viable option. The same terrain can block CTAF announcements made while approaching.

Worse, at some of those same fields landing and takeoff are only possible in opposing directions - regardless of wind. I've landed at two such airfields this month. Fortunately most such fields are low use, so one rarely has to worry about any traffic at all.
 
AuntPeggy said:
No, he didn't. He stated that a straight-in is discourteous and unsafe. I agree
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Yes he did, read message #101 thoroughly. He even conceded that he had in message #102.

When traffic is above (or below) traffic pattern, they are less visible to traffic at pattern altitude. A descending straight-in is likely to be above the pattern traffic, and therefore less visible.

When aircraft are turning in the pattern, their banked wings make them more visible to other traffic. A straight-in approach does not present a banked view.

When traffic joins the downwind, other traffic is more likely to anticipate the actions of that traffic and adjust speed, spacing, and location to accommodate. When traffic joins the pattern straight-in it can come as a surprise to those already in the pattern and adjustment can be more of a problem.
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I've never had those problems. It's likely you're just not using effective scanning techniques.

When traffic is coming straight-in and announces several miles away, secure in the knowledge that they have the right-of-way over all other traffic, there might be a tendency to expect everyone else to see-and-avoid. Their blinders might be just a little too tight.
Click to expand...

"Right-of-way over all other traffic"? What does that mean?

As mentioned, as in many other things in life, straight-in is legal, straight-in has the right-of-way over others. But, straight-in is less courteous and less safe.
Click to expand...

A straight-in approach is neither less safe nor less courteous. In fact, it's often the safest and most courteous.
 
EppyGA said:
It is exactly where I make my calls, but I don't use the name of the fix specifically because VFR pilots won't have a clue where I'm at.
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If I don't hear the fix name I assume the distance is an inaccurate guess.
 
While this thread has been going on, 5000 aircraft landed at the local uncontrolled field. 2500 of them made straight ins.

Hahahahaha.
 
When I'm flying to an unfamiliar airport or when the runway is small, I'm flying a pattern. Gives me time to settle.

When I'm flying an IAP (even VFR) I'm going to go straight in.
 
When coming straight-in to an uncontrolled field, how is it that you see where all the other traffic is that might be also in the pattern?
 
AuntPeggy said:
When coming straight-in to an uncontrolled field, how is it that you see where all the other traffic is that might be also in the pattern?
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If during my straight in iap there is a student doing touch and gos and another student on a cross country (or anyone else for that matter) about to conflict with me in final I go upwind or circle away.

I was once that student on a first xc landing and someone on a long straight in final discontinued for me because I was obviously clueless!
 
FastEddieB said:
Possibly true.

But, then what do you think the FAA's motives are for recommending a standard traffic pattern?

Just arbitrary?
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There's nothing non-standard about a straight-in approach but there are any number of possible non-standard traffic patterns. The FAA recommends one standard traffic pattern so that creative and/or crazy pilots don't, for example, make a habit of arriving 5000 feet overhead the landing runway and spiralling down for landing as if they were a F-16 doing a flame out pattern.
 
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