"Straight for the numbers" with not much room for even a short final

Jeff Oslick said:
The risk/reward of executing a turning landing like this versus being in a turn all the way to the numbers then straightening out for 2 or 3 seconds to be more stable for touch down just isn't there. I'm curious how many circumstances would actually "require" this maneuver. I'm sure you'll try to find an example now.

I'm not saying this particular pilot is unsafe doing it, but teaching it as anything but a "this is technically possible, in a real pinch" isn't a great idea.
Click to expand...
It would be good for gathering a crowd @ the airport to watch. :D
 
Jeff Oslick said:
The risk/reward of executing a turning landing like this versus being in a turn all the way to the numbers then straightening out for 2 or 3 seconds to be more stable for touch down just isn't there. I'm curious how many circumstances would actually "require" this maneuver. I'm sure you'll try to find an example now.

I'm not saying this particular pilot is unsafe doing it, but teaching it as anything but a "this is technically possible, in a real pinch" isn't a great idea.
Click to expand...

Just because it is something that is outside of your comfort zone, does not make it dangerous to other pilots. It is another tool in the belt, thats all
 
Jackk said:
Just because it is something that is outside of your comfort zone, does not make it dangerous to other pilots. It is another tool in the belt, thats all
Click to expand...

You asked how I would "normally" do something like this. It is not a "normal" maneuver. It isn't a black/white dangerous/not dangerous, it is a risk management item. This maneuver presents significant extra risk, which would almost never be needed, and practicing it to proficiency for that extremely rare use introduces a lot unneeded risk. Of course, a ground loop isn't likely to result in much if any injury, but it raises everyone's insurance rates.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
You asked how I would "normally" do something like this. It is not a "normal" maneuver. It isn't a black/white dangerous/not dangerous, it is a risk management item. This maneuver presents significant extra risk, which would almost never be needed, and practicing it to proficiency for that extremely rare use introduces a lot unneeded risk. Of course, a ground loop isn't likely to result in much if any injury, but it raises everyone's insurance rates.
Click to expand...

I don’t care about unneeded insurance, dirty secret, you’re rates are going to go up no matter what.

Engine failures are also rare, a turning landing is not dangerous with proper training and skill, I’m also not seeing how that would cause a ground loop, two different animals.
 
Different
IK04 said:
Along the edge of the water on a river bend.

I had to teach myself how to do it without bending stuff...
Click to expand...

Ha! You also dual rated?
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'd have flown it as a long left base, like your green line but a few hundred yards to the right. Left turn at 500 AGL just off the numbers and full flaps puts you down right in the middle of the runway for quick turnoff at the next taxiway.

The tower was trying to do you a favor. But nothing says you have to accept it, and their feelings won't get hurt. As others observed, "unable" always works, as does saying you prefer to wait.

You are at a good point in your development to start getting more comfortable with maximum performance landings and takeoffs. 172 is a great plane for that. In addition to making you more comfortable with situations like this, you'll be much better prepared if you ever have to do an emergency off-airport landing.
Click to expand...

First, you did exactly the right thing by electing to wait for the other plane to land first, you weren't comfortable accepting that clearance at that time. Your experience has not included enough variety to execute unusual landing scenarios with confidence. Now you have identified an area where your flying skills could use some improvement. Take this opportunity to learn more about landing short, using slips, and non standard approaches. This will also include more work in the slow speed area of the flight envelope, so you can become more proficient and be more comfortable going from high speed to slow speed in a hurry.

A few years ago I had a BFR with an unfamiliar flight instructor. He realized that I was keen on landing my Cherokee on shorter runways and sometimes using non standard approaches. He watched me use various techniques to get in short. Then he gave me a new tip that is really easy to use and a big help... he taught me how to slip down in a turn. He had already observed my proficiency with forward slips, so he said casually, "next time you are a little too high in your base to final turn, try adding a little top rudder, the plane is already banked so it puts it in a slip instantly, and neutralizing the rudder gets it out." Once you are proficient with forward slips, this is a great way to drop altitude in the base to final turn.

Ed Haywood had previously written how he would fly the green line a couple hundred yards to the right. I would do the same but initially I would zoom down in my base approach to about 500 feet maybe 1 mile from the runway, then zoom up to lose airspeed and then apply flaps. That should put me entering the final turn at about 700 ft agl, the perfect place to slip in the turn to get lined up with the numbers at the correct short final altitude.

Non standard? Yes. Unsafe? No. Would I have landed safely in front of the other airplane? Definitely! As a private pilot you have a license to learn. Here is a new set of learning exercises for you. Enjoy!
 
William Pete Hodges said:
He had already observed my proficiency with forward slips, so he said casually, "next time you are a little too high in your base to final turn, try adding a little top rudder, the plane is already banked so it puts it in a slip instantly, and neutralizing the rudder gets it out." Once you are proficient with forward slips, this is a great way to drop altitude in the base to final turn.

...

As a private pilot you have a license to learn. Here is a new set of learning exercises for you. Enjoy!
Click to expand...

This is definitely something I'd do with a CFI first! As it is, if I find myself high coming out of the base-to-final turn, I will throw in a slip on final. Makes it easy to bleed off any excess altitude really easily. The short version of a very long story is that I was excessively high on my first landing during my checkride and DPE had me slip all the way into the flair. I should have gone around but I got comfortable with slipping all the way down really quickly.
 
allPrimes said:
The short version of a very long story is that I was excessively high on my first landing during my checkride and DPE had me slip all the way into the flair.
Click to expand...
You simply gave him the opportunity to see an ACS (or PTS, depending upon how long ago) requirement for real rather than having to contrive a scenario.
 
As a new pilot many many years ago I was told by the controller to hurry the approach foe an arriving airliner. Let’s just say it didn’t work out well. I learned a valuable lesson ,your the one flying the airplane,if your not comfortable don’t accept the clearance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top