Stopped in PKB-dead battery

AuntPeggy

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Headed to OSH and landed PKB nearly NORDO. Forgot to switch on left side of master. Can't find local mechanic to charge/buy battery. Can you help? Will hand-prop in am and depart NORDO if good VFR and still no mx.

FBO & Days Inn being totally great.
 
Headed to OSH and landed PKB nearly NORDO. Forgot to switch on left side of master. Can't find local mechanic to charge/buy battery. Can you help? Will hand-prop in am and depart NORDO if good VFR and still no mx.

FBO & Days Inn being totally great.[/quote}

Parkersburg? Hmm..

I'll email some folks that should be nearby....
 
Would it be ok to take the battery out and charge it at a gas station?
 
Would it be ok to take the battery out and charge it at a gas station?

12 volt would be fine, don't imagine a gas station could do much with a 28, though. Depends on which one you have.

On second thought, if they had two 12s, they could connect them in series with each other and that should work on a 28.
 
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Would it be ok to take the battery out and charge it at a gas station?

Yes.

If you have a 12v system and can find someone with a car and jumper cables you can charge your battery enough to start. If you connect the cables and run the car at idle with everything in the car turned off for 30 minutes you'll have the battery about halfway to full capacity which ought to be enough to get a start. If this is a plane with the battery in the tail you could even start the plane using the jumpers but if you do that you should run the engine at idle for at least 20 minutes to slow charge the battery before turning up the RPM. Don't forget to lean the mixture so you don't foul the plugs.
 
I would check water in it ONLY after it is completely charged and you know how to do that properly.
I would check the water before and after, but not during the charge. If the water is found to be low, check the water level frequently, like every 2 - 3 hours of flight for a while, as this could be a symptom of overcharging by the plane's generator/alternator.

If you need to add water frequently, call your A&P. Simple fix to adjust the voltage regulator (if this is in fact the problem.)

-Skip
 
Pa1 hasn't worked. Hubby hand-propped
PLEASE Don't Hand Prop!
(We were trained by a CFI who teaches in no-electric planes. We brief the task every time.)
and I ran the engine 20 minutes with only the gyros, voltmeter, and clock pulling power while the charge dropped from 11.6 to 11.4 so I shut it down. We pulled the battery and it is being charged in the truck maintenance building. Had to add some water because it had gone down below the vanes. Will check again after (if) charged.

Always put year and model of plane so we have a better chance to help.
Aircraft batteries are so small capacity that hooking up jumper cables to
a charged car battery (assuming 12V in your plane) for 15 minutes will
give it the needed boost. I would check water in it ONLY after it is completely
charged and you know how to do that properly.
Hubby is training as mechanic. Has serviced battery at annual under eye of IA.

We have 1976 Cessna 172-M, 12-volt battery. We ran about 1 hour before realizing not charging. (Dumb, I know.)

Gotta go see a "hangar full of RVs under construction and a real nice guy."

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how well plan 2 works out. So far the weather won't let us go NORDO. And we haven't found a nearby mechanic or battery.

Still real concerned.
 
Good to hear -- easy to find "Real nice Guys" anywhere in WV.

Fortunately, batteries are fairly inexpensive. There's a parts dealer at AGC, about 40 minutes north of PKB.
 
Pa1 hasn't worked. Hubby hand-propped (We were trained by a CFI who teaches in no-electric planes. We brief the task every time.)
and I ran the engine 20 minutes with only the gyros, voltmeter, and clock pulling power while the charge dropped from 11.6 to 11.4 so I shut it down. We pulled the battery and it is being charged in the truck maintenance building. Had to add some water because it had gone down below the vanes. Will check again after (if) charged.

If the battery is too low, it won't pull in the master relay even after you get the engine started and the battery won't charge.

Best of luck getting this resolved.
 
The battery charged up to 12.5 in the garage, so we started the plane up again and idled for 20 minutes before turning on the radio master. Instant drop to 11.9, so we aren't going anywhere until we see a mechanic.

If the battery is too low, it won't pull in the master relay even after you get the engine started and the battery won't charge.

Best of luck getting this resolved.
Think we need either an alternator or voltage regulator.

Good to hear -- easy to find "Real nice Guys" anywhere in WV.

Fortunately, batteries are fairly inexpensive. There's a parts dealer at AGC, about 40 minutes north of PKB.
Thanks!.

Plan 3 - I have phoned the FBO at AGC and they are trying to see if they can find a mechanic.

We phoned the kids and told them, if lucky, we'll be a day late, but probably 2 or 3 days late. sigh.
 
Plan 3 - I have phoned the FBO at AGC and they are trying to see if they can find a mechanic.

We phoned the kids and told them, if lucky, we'll be a day late, but probably 2 or 3 days late. sigh.

My mechanic is at FWQ -- he may be there now.

PM if you want the info (FWQ is 5 miles south of AGC)
 
Peggy ...

Not altogether sure what you are using for airplane, and I don't mean to emphasize the obvious, but ...

1. Two fuses or breakers. One says "alternator" and one says "field". If fuses, pull the fuse and look carefully at it to see if it has blown or separated. The alternator fuse should be on the order of 50 amps or so and the field fuse should be around 5 amps. An ohmmeter test would be best, but if there is no mechanic around, the visual should tell you a bit.

2. If breakers of the "pull off" variety, pull-push-pull-push about three or four times each.

3. I'm presuming you have an aircraft with a loadmeter and not an ammeter, yes? And a voltmeter? As the other post said, knowing what aircraft you are flying would be a help; we could go to the type certificate data sheet and tell a little more about your situation without having to ask all the questions.
 
1974 Cessna 172-M SN 17263060

We have voltmeter and ammeter (that's what Hubby said) onboard.

Plan 3 results:
After over-the-phone diagnostics and tools from RV kit builders, seems we need voltage regulator. Currently have Zeftronics R15V00 Rev A.

Will try the circuit breaker trick in a minute. Some are push-pull and others just pop. We did check that they were all in when we started this project.

Will let you all know how it goes from here.

Appreciate all the help and advice. Haven't got to plan 4 yet.
 
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From www.zeftronics.com, go to Product Information (left side of page), then Alternator Controllers, then download the R15V00-RevA pdf file with troubleshooting tips.

It seems that particular controller has a built in testing system using red and green LEDs on the controller itself.

That pdf file *should* be attached to this post, but no guarantees as I"ve never attached in this system as yet.

Jim
 

Attachments

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PLEASE Don't Hand Prop!
Handpropping is dangerous...but so is flying. I was very dubious about doing it, but one of my flying buddies did it about 5 times (over the years) when I was going flying with him in his Skyhawk.
It did scare the c*** out of me as I press down on the toe-brakes. But he executed the procedure successfully each time.
The main weakness with hand-propping is that you have to have a competent person with you to do it.
 
Well, the cowl is back on the Cessna and the courtesy car keys are in the pocket. So, at the moment, Plan 4 is to head back to the motel and see what's on TV.
From www.zeftronics.com, go to Product Information (left side of page), then Alternator Controllers, then download the R15V00-RevA pdf file with troubleshooting tips.

It seems that particular controller has a built in testing system using red and green LEDs on the controller itself.

That pdf file *should* be attached to this post, but no guarantees as I"ve never attached in this system as yet.

Jim
Thanks. The PDF attachment worked like a charm. We'll be memorizing it tonight, I suppose.

Handpropping is dangerous...but so is flying. I was very dubious about doing it, but one of my flying buddies did it about 5 times (over the years) when I was going flying with him in his Skyhawk.
It did scare the c*** out of me as I press down on the toe-brakes. But he executed the procedure successfully each time.
The main weakness with hand-propping is that you have to have a competent person with you to do it.
The Cessna is a little safer than most airplanes because you can hand-prop from behind the prop and hold on to the hand-hold. I believe Hubby has done it about 3 times today. I get to "man" the toe brakes.
Peggy, I wish you and husband well.
Thanks for the good wishes. The POA community and the piloting community in general are the best guys in the world.
 
Peggy, sorry you're having problems getting to OSH. Hope you make it here soon.
 
It now being noonish o'clock in Noo Yawk, you've probably done some serious screwdriver twisting and wrench bending on that puppy. :fcross:

Let's sit and analyze what we know. The airplane, so far as you know, was working just fine on Friday. Saturday you departed home and flew for an hour with the alternator side of the master off. Battery volts dropped to near 12 volts or slightly below. In normal charge mode, that particular alternator regulator is set for 14.2 +/- 0.2 volts. Taking the battery out and charging it got you back up to 12.5 volts. You fired the airplane back up and put a load on the battery and it immediately dropped to 11.9 volts.

So far as I can tell, this is what we KNOW.

Questions to help us along a little:

1. When you noticed the master switch half off, did you turn the master completely on at cruise RPM? If so, did the voltmeter and/or the ammeter tickle in the least?

2. When you re-placed the battery after charging, did you do the load test at higher than idle RPM or down in the 500-600 rpm idle range?

3. Did you "cycle" the alternator master a few times? That rocker switch was truly supplied by the lowest bidder.

4. That battery should accept a charge to at least 13.5 volts ten minutes after a good healthy charge. Why you only got it up to 12.5 volts is a good question that I don't have an answer to.


Jim
 
Plan 5: The fog is beginning to lift and the tower is waiting for our phone call while Hubby gets a briefing from FSS. When possible we will fly to UNI Athens, OH where they have a mechanic and a fleet of C-172s at the airport.

Jim - All good questions. We quit spitting into the wind yesterday before you posted, so this is the first I saw it. Answers below.
It now being noonish o'clock in Noo Yawk, you've probably done some serious screwdriver twisting and wrench bending on that puppy. :fcross:

Let's sit and analyze what we know. The airplane, so far as you know, was working just fine on Friday. Saturday you departed home and flew for an hour with the alternator side of the master off. Battery volts dropped to near 12 volts or slightly below. In normal charge mode, that particular alternator regulator is set for 14.2 +/- 0.2 volts. Taking the battery out and charging it got you back up to 12.5 volts. You fired the airplane back up and put a load on the battery and it immediately dropped to 11.9 volts.

So far as I can tell, this is what we KNOW. Good analysis.

Questions to help us along a little:

1. When you noticed the master switch half off, did you turn the master completely on at cruise RPM? If so, did the voltmeter and/or the ammeter tickle in the least? At cruise (2300-2400). The voltmeter rose some and the ammeter rose from negative to zero, then no further action.

2. When you re-placed the battery after charging, did you do the load test at higher than idle RPM or down in the 500-600 rpm idle range? I was at 1000 rpm.

3. Did you "cycle" the alternator master a few times? That rocker switch was truly supplied by the lowest bidder. Yes, we cycled one extra time. Since then, it has been off and on several times. We haven't tested the switch itself yet.

4. That battery should accept a charge to at least 13.5 volts ten minutes after a good healthy charge. Why you only got it up to 12.5 volts is a good question that I don't have an answer to. It was on the charger more like 45 minutes and got to 12.5 volts.

Jim

In addition to the above, we found a loose ground wire that does not make any difference to our problem and a fuel leak in the primer ("bandaided") that is only spotted when priming with the cowl off.

For all these reasons, we need some educated eyes looking at it. As far as I know, the current symptoms are not explained by the supposed cause, so I guess something else was uncovered by our mistake.
 
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Plan 6: It is the alternator. Brushes, springs, and slip rings have chewed up each other. There is a new alternator at Columbus and an instructor is making a flight today with passengers. With permission of the passengers, he will deviate to pick up the alternator and we should be on our way around noon. The labor, alternator, ferry flight should add up to just over $500 (Less than we feared.)

What we learned: Change out the brushes in the alternator every 1000 miles and it will "last forever". So, we should have done that when we changed out the mags.

We'll head to Oklahoma as soon as possible and spend some quality time with the family before going back home. (Nasty looking weather popping up now.) Looks like Oshkosh will have to wait another year for us.

Have fun, y'all.
 
Also, wanted to say that it was kind of fun flying purely by pilotage. Haven't really had to rely on a compass and chart since those early days of training. Nice.
 
Glad you'll be on your way soon! And at only .5 AMU (plus the delays), it's a (relatively) cheap lesson.

Best wishes and hope to see you at OSH!
 
You absolutely won't believe this. The plane that went to pick up our alternator had a bad mag check when leaving Columbus. He's been on the ground for about 3 hours now, but they believe he is leaving soon. I wonder about the really nice couple that were going out for a Birthday ride. They sure are getting more than they bargained for.

We will not get to OK tonight, but might get to BMG.
 
You absolutely won't believe this. The plane that went to pick up our alternator had a bad mag check when leaving Columbus. He's been on the ground for about 3 hours now, but they believe he is leaving soon. I wonder about the really nice couple that were going out for a Birthday ride. They sure are getting more than they bargained for.

We will not get to OK tonight, but might get to BMG.

Holy cow...

maybe it's time to rent a car...

B)
 
You absolutely won't believe this. The plane that went to pick up our alternator had a bad mag check when leaving Columbus. He's been on the ground for about 3 hours now, but they believe he is leaving soon. I wonder about the really nice couple that were going out for a Birthday ride. They sure are getting more than they bargained for.

We will not get to OK tonight, but might get to BMG.

Maybe I'm just superstitious, but when events start unfolding they way they have been for you, I begin to think that somebody's trying to tell me something. I usually take a step back and relax for a bit.
 
Maybe I'm just superstitious, but when events start unfolding they way they have been for you, I begin to think that somebody's trying to tell me something. I usually take a step back and relax for a bit.
Yup. Like me, that's a reaction to the mandatory dawn patrol except there's a 800nm hurricane in the Tonkin Gulf.

Ummm. WHY are we flying this patrol. Umm. Remind me?
 
Yup. Like me, that's a reaction to the mandatory dawn patrol except there's a 800nm hurricane in the Tonkin Gulf.

Ummm. WHY are we flying this patrol. Umm. Remind me?

I think it had to do with some fella called Johnson, big ugly Texas guy. Seems I remember him insisting, or some such silliness. Guy just had no sense of humor at all. :goofy:
 
I think it had to do with some fella called Johnson, big ugly Texas guy. Seems I remember him insisting, or some such silliness. Guy just had no sense of humor at all. :goofy:

I believe the bumper sticker said, "Eat Texas Beef, Not LBJ Baloney!" Oh, and after the 1964 election Goldwater supporters were fond of saying, "Everyone told me that if I voted for Goldwater it would escalate the war in Vietnam. They were right. I did, and it did!"

Back to our dead battery discussion... :(
 
Maybe I'm just superstitious, but when events start unfolding they way they have been for you, I begin to think that somebody's trying to tell me something. I usually take a step back and relax for a bit.
Agreed. We flew to BMG on Monday, then arrived PNC Tuesday. Quit striving for OSH. We'll fly to Tulsa tomorrow, then back to PNC with son. Return him to Tulsa, then back to NY. So far we haven't flown after dark with new alternator or relied on radios.

We really believe in the 3 problem superstition. Break the chain before the problems become dangerous. So we no longer "gotta get there."

ps. Never voted for Johnson. Too young to vote for Goldwater.
 
Agreed. We flew to BMG on Monday, then arrived PNC Tuesday. Quit striving for OSH. We'll fly to Tulsa tomorrow, then back to PNC with son. Return him to Tulsa, then back to NY. So far we haven't flown after dark with new alternator or relied on radios.

We really believe in the 3 problem superstition. Break the chain before the problems become dangerous. So we no longer "gotta get there."

ps. Never voted for Johnson. Too young to vote for Goldwater.

Excellent choices, IMO. As for Johnson, I didn't vote for him, but still had to work for him. Such is life.
 
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