Sticks vs. Yokes?

[Utah-Jay]

How do the new (Cirrus and Cessna 350/400) sticks compare to flying a more traditional GA yoke?

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

 

[AdamZ]

I've only flown one once and found it a bit odd because you want to manipulate it like a stick but its kid of half way between a stick and a Yoke. I am sure that those that fly them on a regular basis get used to it and find there is no issue at all.

 

[Geico266]

Real men fly with sticks.

It becomes intuitive very quickly.

Personally, I want the stick in the middle in the event of a runaway trim tab, or (more likely an improperly ) set trim on take off. It becomes a two handed job rather quickly, but this is avoided by using a check list and setting the trim properly to begin with.

Not a yoke fan

 

[Bob Noel]

I don't like the side stick... at least I didn't like it in the Lancair Super ES I flew.

I would be ok with the stick where it belongs. I'm sort of ambidextrous but typically write left-handed, and can fly with either hand.

You should try it. A lot of people say they like it after trying it for awhile.

 

[Alexb2000]

How do the new (Cirrus and Cessna 350/400) sticks compare to flying a more traditional GA yoke?

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

I found the side stick on the 400 and Cirrus really easy to get used to (10 minutes). Also the passengers love not having a yoke or especially a center stick in their way.

 

[bnt83]

Real men fly with sticks.

It becomes intuitive very quickly.

Personally, I want the stick in the middle in the event of a runaway trim tab, or (more likely an improperly ) set trim on take off. It becomes a two handed job rather quickly, but this is avoided by using a check list and setting the trim properly to begin with.

Not a yoke fan

What about the Cessna 162? Is it a stoke?? = stick/yoke???

It was fun to fly tho

 

[Alexb2000]

Personally, I want the stick in the middle in the event of a runaway trim tab, or (more likely an improperly ) set trim on take off. It becomes a two handed job rather quickly, but this is avoided by using a check list and setting the trim properly to begin with.

Not a yoke fan

Or I could just hold the CWS button in the event of a runaway.

If improperly trimmed the left thumb is quite effective at correcting it.

We certified flyers have moved beyond the brute force flying of you RV guys.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I like sticks. I'd retrofit my Arrow with a stick if I could.

 

[Geico266]

Or I could just hold the CWS button in the event of a runaway.

If improperly trimmed the left thumb is quite effective at correcting it.

We certified flyers have moved beyond the brute force flying of you RV guys.

Is that why there have been Cirri drivers crash on take off due to improper trim setting?


Maybe you guys should eat more Wheaties?

 

[Alexb2000]

Is that why there have been Cirri drivers crash on take off due to improper trim setting?


Maybe you guys should eat more Wheaties?

Let me flip the bit, if that same Cirrus driver would have been in an RV and had the trim improperly set, do you think they would have crashed?

We in the certified world also encourage 90lb. women to fly without pumping iron for 6 months first. BTW- They are also allowed to vote as well as fly.

 

[peppy]

Is that why there have been Cirri drivers crash on take off due to improper trim setting?


Maybe you guys should eat more Wheaties?

Have there been?

My ex once flew a Cirrus where the trim ran hard to one side and did a 200' approach to mins into AVL. Yeah, I took a lot of crap from the pilot (not instructor but friend) sitting right seat about what a wonderful job she had done under a difficult situation. So, a 5'2" 125# woman handled a run away trim just fine in real world IFR conditions.

The Cirrus side yoke is just that. When you fly a 172 do you have both hands on the yoke? I always used my left hand. Take a 172 yoke, cut off the right horn, move the left horn to the center, slide assembly left. Now you have the Cirrus system. The difference took about 5 minutes for me to adjust to. Higher landing speed and speed management approaching the airport took longer. OK, a lot longer. In return you get a much lower panel. That also took longer to adjust to. I wasn't used to seeing the runway straight ahead in the flair. It seemed like I was flat when I wasn't. In cruise I initially wanted to climb because I kept wanting to position the horizon relative to the panel as if I was in a 172.

 

[peppy]

There is one thing that is very different that isn't exactly due to the side yoke design but it is a definite factor in a Cirrus and that is the trim system. A Cirrus lacks a trim tab. Instead, trim is accomplished by spring tension on the yoke. This isn't inherent in the side yoke design but rather a design choice by Cirrus. I feel that feedback is a little dulled by trim being set by a spring system. Also, the trim is very fast. A Cirrus is fast in pitch (very sports car like) and the two together mean trimming is an art. I really miss the old wheel that I had when flying 172's and 182's.

 

[poadeleted20]

The first time you try something different from what you first leaned on, it may take a bit of time to get comfortable. After enough time with the various combinations of stick, yoke, and different hands, it really doesn't matter, and it takes only a few minutes to get used to something new.

 

[bnt83]

 

[O-200]

Luceeeeeeeeeeeee. Im hooooooooooooooome!

And for those who don't know, the "stoke" (Yick?)on the 162 is not like a yoke with the horns removed.
It swings left to right in an arc simulating a floor mounted stick. Not being mounted on the floor sure is nice when entering and exiting the airplane.

George

 

[bnt83]

Yup. Its a hybrid




I have a whopping 1.4 hours in one

 

[poadeleted20]

Of all the control systems I've flown with over these many years, the C-162's is the only one that I never felt comfortable with in one flight -- the side-to-side motion for roll was just too weird. Maybe if I flew one a bunch I might feel differently, but I don't have a lot of optimism in that regard.

 

[Bill Watson]

I found the side stick on the 400 and Cirrus really easy to get used to (10 minutes). Also the passengers love not having a yoke or especially a center stick in their way.

My total time is about evenly split between a yoke and a center mounted stick.
The stick is more better to fly.
The yoke is more better for passengers.
Left or right hand stick operation takes about 10 mins to adapt to.
The side stick seems like an improvement over either for passengers and a compromise for flying but I've never used one so I don't know squat.
The C162 looks attractive but you say it swings left to right huh? Wow.

 

[bnt83]

My total time is about evenly split between a yoke and a center mounted stick.
The stick is more better to fly.
The yoke is more better for passengers.
Left or right hand stick operation takes about 10 mins to adapt to.
The side stick seems like an improvement over either for passengers and a compromise for flying but I've never used one so I don't know squat.
The C162 looks attractive but you say it swings left to right huh? Wow.

Swings left and right. It's kind wierd.

 

[O-200]

In and out too.:wink2:

George

 

[bnt83]

In and out too.:wink2:

George

smoothly

 

[cirrusmx]

I love sticks, but then again thats what she said. Cirrus sideyoke is a yoke, but only moved to the side. It is pretty convenient in that you have a bunch of space free up between your belly and the panel. You can actually fit an Ipad !! Regarding the trim, because it is on the top of the stick you dont even think about trimming. It comes natural to counteract the control pressures. The only thing i find a little bit awkard is doing full left aileron deflection because of the twisting motion on the wrist.

You can do an exercise to get use to the wrist twisting right in the comfort of your office/cubicle. follow steps:
1.close fist
2.Simulate full left deflection of the side yoke.Twist wrist.
3. Bring arm up about ten inches
4. return to original position.
5. goto step #3 and loop.

 

[MachFly]

Real men fly with sticks.

Seriously though. The reason why we have yokes is because in the 20s & 30s when large aircraft started coming out we didn't have hydraulic systems yet, so pilots actually needed both hands. Then when hydraulics become common the yokes still stayed in case of a hydraulic leak. The reason why GA planes were being build with yokes is to look more like the big aircraft (apparently they are appealing to some people). Thankfully in the 90s a couple of companies decided that a yoke won't increase the number of aircraft they sell so they decided to use a stick instead.

There is a reason why all fighter and aerobatic aircraft have sticks (with 1 or 2 exceptions).

 

[MachFly]

How do the new (Cirrus and Cessna 350/400) sticks compare to flying a more traditional GA yoke?

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

A stick in general should feel a lot more natural and give you more precise control. The Stick on the Cirrus however is more like a half yoke. I haven't flown the 350 or 400, but Cirrus' stick (half yoke what ever) is very precise. Because of the way the controls work at first you will not feel the aircraft at all and you'll hate it, but give it a few hours in order to get used to it and it will be much better than a typical yoke.

Is that why there have been Cirri drivers crash on take off due to improper trim setting?

Not on take off. Imagine having runaway trip, no manual trim controls at all, and only one hand that can fly the airplane. First your hand will get tired in cruise and then you will need to land the aircraft with a tired hand.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I've been flying the A320 with the side stick controller. No real issues, very intuitive. The only real issue in the first few sim sessions was getting use to the fact that there is no trimming while in flight.

But my case may be different as I have a GA background flying lots of planes with sticks as well as helicopters.

YMMV.

 

[Clark1961]

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

This is an odd question for aircraft with yokes since everyone flys left handed when setting in the left seat. The throttle is on the right side when setting left so the right hand goes to the throttle.

No reason to think anything is different for a sidestick. It certainly isn't different for a center stick.

 

[bnt83]

This is an odd question for aircraft with yokes since everyone flys left handed when setting in the left seat. The throttle is on the right side when setting left so the right hand goes to the throttle.

No reason to think anything is different for a sidestick. It certainly isn't different for a center stick.

Did you forget about C188, Cessna Bird Dog, Citabria, Cub Super Cub etc...??


Throttle is on the left with stick in the middle.

 

[X3 Skier]

Fighters have sticks (center or side). Heavies have yokes.

Cheers

 

[kgruber]

The only reason yokes showed up was to enable women to fly in skirts.

 

[Clark1961]

Did you forget about C188, Cessna Bird Dog, Citabria, Cub Super Cub etc...??


Throttle is on the left with stick in the middle.

Soooo, you're saying the side stick isn't similar to a yoke with the left hand to control attitude and right hand to control the engine? Okay then.

 

[Bill Watson]

The only reason yokes showed up was to enable women to fly in skirts.

A good reason indeed.

This whole side stick thing where you can't really feel the plane conjures up that AirFrance Airbus accident where the plane stalled in from high altitude into the ocean. (Caution, severe thread drift)

Iced over pitots was the base problem but the detail report showed that one of the crew was commanding full pitch up almost the whole time. It was like the fly by wire control was no longer linked to a control surface, but rather was just a way to indicate what you wanted the plane to do, i.e. go up! Sort of like Scotty saying, "hello computer". The stick vs yoke discussion will probably seem as quaint as a keyboard vs mouse soon.

 

[bnt83]

Soooo, you're saying the side stick isn't similar to a yoke with the left hand to control attitude and right hand to control the engine? Okay then.

Now I'm just lost. Maybe I missed the boat entirely

 

[Clark1961]

Now I'm just lost. Maybe I missed the boat entirely

Maybe. We were discussing yokes and side-sticks. Not so much center sticks. Very much agreed they can be different depending on arrangement. No big deal really - It seems to me that center stick and throttle position really don't matter. I'll fly a center stick with either hand. Flying a glider the first time was really frustrating for the left hand since it really didn't have anything to do.

 

[jpower]

How do the new (Cirrus and Cessna 350/400) sticks compare to flying a more traditional GA yoke?

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

This is an odd question for aircraft with yokes since everyone flys left handed when setting in the left seat. The throttle is on the right side when setting left so the right hand goes to the throttle.

No reason to think anything is different for a sidestick. It certainly isn't different for a center stick.

I usually fly a Tecnam Eaglet, which has a throttle in the middle and a throttle on the left with center sticks. I've always flown left-handed, and I'm a rightie. I got checked out recently in the Sky Arrow, which has tandem seating, so I'm stuck with how they want me to do it. They put the stick on the right (more like a yoke disguised as a stick, I guess) and the throttle on the left. I thought I might have a little trouble getting used to it at first, but once I was in the air it felt entirely natural. My first landing or two were meh, but that was more due to the (much) lower sight picture, I think.

What about the Cessna 162? Is it a stoke?? = stick/yoke???

It was fun to fly tho

Of all the control systems I've flown with over these many years, the C-162's is the only one that I never felt comfortable with in one flight -- the side-to-side motion for roll was just too weird. Maybe if I flew one a bunch I might feel differently, but I don't have a lot of optimism in that regard.

I have a grand total of 0.6 hours in the Skycatcher. I was playing with the stoke (yes, Cessna calls it that...I think) on the ground before we went flying and I had no clue how I was ever going to get used to it. But as soon as we took off, it felt natural to me. I didn't notice anything terribly different or unusual about its movements.

 

[Tarheel Pilot]

I flew both yokes & stick & I'll be honest, I prefer the stick. I agree that it is more intuitive.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

 

[spiderweb]

How do the new (Cirrus and Cessna 350/400) sticks compare to flying a more traditional GA yoke?

Is it odd in the left hand (right handed folks?)

I have flown yokes, center sticks, and side sticks. The side stick (in a Cirrus) was a bit awkward for about 5 minutes--after that I didn't notice it. If anything, it had a lot less slop than Cessna yokes.

 

[RyanShort1]

It's all in your head. Either are fine. And that includes the Skycatcher's stoke.

Ryan

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Yoke, stick, left, right, front, back -whatever's there, no problem.
Yoke's and their variants are better for moving around, which can be useful and provide more options for hand placement during long legs. Longer sticks give more lever arm for smoother control in general.

 

[alfadog]

I have not flown much in TAA and not at all with the side sticks. Do have some analogous experience. Years ago, before I mistakenly though I would be happier behind a computer as a "professional" than I was behind a bunch of horsepower as a "tradesman", I transitioned from ragged-out P&H excavators to a brand-new Liebherr. Went from constantly working with both hands and feet to dual air over hydraulic proportional control joysticks. You get used to it. Maybe even like it

From (this is a P&H crane but the excavator cab looks almost identical)

To

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Real men fly with TWO sticks.

FIFY