Steps for an A&P ticket?

[txflyer]

So our A&P tasked me with removing my exhaust stacks and muffler in my own hangar getting the wagon ready for new pipes and I thought "I could do this!" I had everything off in a couple of hours with simple hand tools.

Growing up on the farm, I'm a decent shade tree mechanic and understand a bunch about motors. Now I'm semi-retired and spend so much of my time at the airport the thought hit me, "why not apprentice with Ron and get my A&P?" Sure would come in handy.

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

 

[Clark1961]

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

An old Indy car driver/crew chief did it a couple of years ago at FTG. You can do it.

I'm a hard-headed ancient engineer and use the A&P IA for sign-offs when I have time to do my own work. Some of the complicated stuff he's better-off coordinating. Generally it ain't rocket surgery...

 

[RotorAndWing]

So our A&P tasked me with removing my exhaust stacks and muffler in my own hangar getting the wagon ready for new pipes and I thought "I could do this!" I had everything off in a couple of hours with simple hand tools.

Growing up on the farm, I'm a decent shade tree mechanic and understand a bunch about motors. Now I'm semi-retired and spend so much of my time at the airport the thought hit me, "why not apprentice with Ron and get my A&P?" Sure would come in handy.

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

Yep, 56 is no problem. I signed off a friend who was 78 to get his.

Here's what the FAA wants:

Order 8900.1, Vol. 5, Chapter 5, Section 2

5-1135 EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. Section 65.77 requires the applicant to have documented practical experience in maintaining airframes and/or powerplants. At least 18 months of practical experience appropriate to the rating requested is required. For a certificate with both ratings, the requirement is at least 30 months of experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings. If the applicant has not met the required 30 months concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings, calculate each rating separately using the 18-month requirement for each.

NOTE: Applying for ratings separately will result in no less than 36 months total requirement for both ratings.
A. Practical Experience. The practical experience must provide the applicant with basic knowledge of and skills in the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment used in aircraft construction, alteration, maintenance, and inspection.


E. Part-Time Practical Experience. During the evaluation of part-time practical aviation maintenance experience, the applicant must document an equivalent of 18 months for each rating individually, or 30 months of experience for both ratings. This is based on a standard work-week that has 8 hours per day for 5 days per week, or a 40 hour work-week, or a total of approximately 160 hours per month. The time is cumulative, but the days, weeks, and months are not required to be consecutive. The practical experience must be documented.

I would advise to get with an Airworthiness Inspector at the FSDO and discuss it with him, your A&P should have a contact.

 

[txflyer]

An old Indy car driver/crew chief did it a couple of years ago at FTG. You can do it.

I've never failed at anything I wanted bad enough.

Well, except my first marriage....

...but I didn't want that witch anymore.

 

[aircraftbuilder]

So our A&P tasked me with removing my exhaust stacks and muffler in my own hangar getting the wagon ready for new pipes and I thought "I could do this!" I had everything off in a couple of hours with simple hand tools.

Growing up on the farm, I'm a decent shade tree mechanic and understand a bunch about motors. Now I'm semi-retired and spend so much of my time at the airport the thought hit me, "why not apprentice with Ron and get my A&P?" Sure would come in handy.

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

The key to getting your A&P ticket is first satisfying the requirements of the FAA. You must have the required amount of time working as a mechanic and be able to secure your 8610 forms, aka permission slips. The 8610 gives you permission to take the 3 tests, and once you've completed and passed the writtens, then you can find a DME and do your oral and practicals. The tests should be appraoched as a memory thing. You cant possibly know all the answers, so just memorize as much as possible. Once you take your Oral and Practical, you'll have to know your way around an airplane. The one thing you'll hear more than anything, is that an A&P licence is a license to learn.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

the wrenching part is the easiest part.....learning the regs and what's allowable is probably more involved, about double to triple what you learned for an instrument rating.

Nothing impossible, but probably the most involved aviation cert that I've done.

It's gonna take you a few years to gain the experience.....then a while of studying and three written tests to pass....yada...yada....then a bunch of practicals.

If you want it....it's doable.

 

[txflyer]

Yep, 56 is no problem. I signed off a friend who was 78 to get his.

Here's what the FAA wants:

Order 8900.1, Vol. 5, Chapter 5, Section 2



I would advise to get with an Airworthiness Inspector at the FSDO and discuss it with him, your A&P should have a contact.

Thanks RW. So it's 4800 man hours minimum apprenticeship.

This work I'm doing on my plane should count.

Is there a logbook specifically for this?

 

[RotorAndWing]

Thanks RW. So it's 4800 man hours minimum apprenticeship.

This work I'm doing on my plane should count.

Is there a logbook specifically for this?

No, just keep a journal.

Word of advise, log everything. That being said, if the job takes 1 hour, remember it takes time to properly research it before hand, prepare the tools, do the job, make logbook entries and clean up.

Don't sell yourself short on time.

 

[txflyer]

No, just keep a journal.

Word of advise, log everything. That being said, if the job takes 1 hour, remember it takes time to properly research it before hand, prepare the tools, do the job, make logbook entries and clean up.

Don't sell yourself short on time.

Will do.

 

[txflyer]

I'm logging everything as I go ...

Like they say, it ain't over 'till the paper work is done.

 

[txflyer]

Amazing what you can find if you just look.

After getting the stacks off, I was able to see things you can't ordinarily see.

Several of the hose clamps on the induction expansion joints were very loose and I could see what looked like leakage. I serviced all of them. Also found some cables that were rubbing and zip tied those away and secured them from the trouble.

 

[aircraftbuilder]

So our A&P tasked me with removing my exhaust stacks and muffler in my own hangar getting the wagon ready for new pipes and I thought "I could do this!" I had everything off in a couple of hours with simple hand tools.

Growing up on the farm, I'm a decent shade tree mechanic and understand a bunch about motors. Now I'm semi-retired and spend so much of my time at the airport the thought hit me, "why not apprentice with Ron and get my A&P?" Sure would come in handy.

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

By the way, ANYONE can become an A&P. The important thing is to be a good one and no offense, most pilots are way too self absorbed to be a good A&P.

 

[ICUDoc]

How hard is it? Steps involved? Apprenticeship? Can an older dude (56) get her done?

There are some alternatives:

- Attend an 18 month course at a local college and earn an A&P. That wouldn't make sense for a lot of us.

- LSRM. LSRM is a an A&P/IA for light sport aircraft and can be earned in 3 weeks at an FAA approved school. After holding the ticket for 30 months you can sit for the A&P. I did mine on a break in 2011 and will be taking the A&P this year. The class cost ~ 4000$ IIRC and the material covered (and instructor) were excellent. We did everything from doping to assembling an avionics system with vacuum. It was a great experience.

Hope that helps.

LSRM - "Light Sport Repairman / Maintenance" my ticket reads "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft".

 

[txflyer]

By the way, ANYONE can become an A&P. The important thing is to be a good one and no offense, most pilots are way too self absorbed to be a good A&P.

I laugh at myself all the time, so I don't think I'm self absorbed or take myself too seriously.

Ron our mechanic is full blood German, so he's no-nonsense but he doesn't get bogged down in minutia either.

We all call him " YOU DON'T NEED THAT ****!" Ron. Because if anyone asks him about a gadget or the latest dido for their airplane, that's what he says.

 

[txflyer]

There are some alternatives:

- Attend an 18 month course at a local college and earn an A&P. That wouldn't make sense for a lot of us.

- LSRM. LSRM is a an A&P/IA for light sport aircraft and can be earned in 3 weeks at an FAA approved school. After holding the ticket for 30 months you can sit for the A&P. I did mine on a break in 2011 and will be taking the A&P this year. The class cost ~ 4000$ IIRC and the material covered (and instructor) were excellent. We did everything from doping to assembling an avionics system with vacuum. It was a great experience.

Hope that helps.

LSRM - "Light Sport Repairman / Maintenance" my ticket reads "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft".

O.k. Thanks. I'll look into it further. There is a small community college here.

 

[jsstevens]

Amazing what you can find if you just look.

After getting the stacks off, I was able to see things you can't ordinarily see.

Several of the hose clamps on the induction expansion joints were very loose and I could see what looked like leakage. I serviced all of them. Also found some cables that were rubbing and zip tied those away and secured them from the trouble.

Check those zip ties with your mechanic. I've read (on here and elsewhere) and seen pictures of zip-ties getting a little grit under them and wearing a slot in the tubing or the wire. Or both . Also, the cut ends are sharp if you have to reach around in there. Ask Jesse.

I'm not an A&P.

John

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Check those zip ties with your mechanic. I've read (on here and elsewhere) and seen pictures of zip-ties getting a little grit under them and wearing a slot in the tubing or the wire. Or both . Also, the cut ends are sharp if you have to reach around in there. Ask Jesse.

I'm not an A&P.

John

Ya.....P-clamps or Adels are preferred over plastic wire ties.

 

[txflyer]

Check those zip ties with your mechanic. I've read (on here and elsewhere) and seen pictures of zip-ties getting a little grit under them and wearing a slot in the tubing or the wire. Or both . Also, the cut ends are sharp if you have to reach around in there. Ask Jesse.

I'm not an A&P.

John

I'll check, but I used two zips, one around the cable, and another through it to a support creating a stand off effect. And not too tight either. Just firm enough to do the job.

I hear ya on the sharp ends.

I cut them with about 1/4 inch left sticking out so you can grab them later and tighten if need be. This allows a little 'play' with the end, so it doesn't cut the crap out of you like a very short cut end.

 

[yakdriver]

I just got my A&P last month. I have 30 years experience working on airplanes but didn't have any formal documentation. I did have builders logs for the two airplanes I built and I had three letters of recommendation from IAs I'd worked with over the years. That was enough for the FSDO to give me permission to do the tests. I got the King course for the written's and it was very good (except for Martha putting me to sleep several times) and I got between 87 and 95 on the tests. I have a testing center near me and did them one at a time. I would not try and do them all at once. I did the practical and oral at U of I in Pocatello, ID. 6 hour oral and 9 hour practical. The oral is the same questions as the written and I had done almost everything before on the practical. Got along great with the DER and actually had a good time over the two days I spent with him. Started the King courses on Nov 15 and did the practical and oral on Jan 1&2. Don't let age hold you back, I'm 63 and the next step is Instrument, Commercial and CFI. I've been flying on a private ticket since 1976 so i guess it's about time. Don

 

[FlyingIsGood]

I just got my A&P last month. I have 30 years experience working on airplanes but didn't have any formal documentation. I did have builders logs for the two airplanes I built and I had three letters of recommendation from IAs I'd worked with over the years. That was enough for the FSDO to give me permission to do the tests. I got the King course for the written's and it was very good (except for Martha putting me to sleep several times) and I got between 87 and 95 on the tests. I have a testing center near me and did them one at a time. I would not try and do them all at once. I did the practical and oral at U of I in Pocatello, ID. 6 hour oral and 9 hour practical. The oral is the same questions as the written and I had done almost everything before on the practical. Got along great with the DER and actually had a good time over the two days I spent with him. Started the King courses on Nov 15 and did the practical and oral on Jan 1&2. Don't let age hold you back, I'm 63 and the next step is Instrument, Commercial and CFI. I've been flying on a private ticket since 1976 so i guess it's about time. Don

Congrats on that.

And txflyer, I hope you end up with yours as well. If I could ever find anyone around here willing to let me shadow them and do some of the grunt work, I'd be working on mine right now too.

I guess having your own plane gives you at least one avenue to log some hours.

 

[Stewartb]

Several of the hose clamps on the induction expansion joints were very loose and I could see what looked like leakage. I serviced all of them. Also found some cables that were rubbing and zip tied those away and secured them from the trouble.

Still have the thumb-turn clamps? Here's a trick. Take a 5/16 nut driver and cut a cross-ways slot in the socket end using a cutoff wheel. Make the slot wide enough to fit onto the thumb turns. Now you have a tool that can apply torque. The same thing works with a small socket to put on the end of a U joint and an extension. Loose induction rubbers are trouble. There's no excuse for letting them get that way.

P.S.- pay close attention to the rubbers on the Y pipe. That's the hardest place to inspect and tighten and the most likely place for an induction leak. And while you're looking, give the balance tube a close look for cracks.

 

[txflyer]

Still have the thumb-turn clamps? Here's a trick. Take a 5/16 nut driver and cut a cross-ways slot in the socket end using a cutoff wheel. Make the slot wide enough to fit onto the thumb turns. Now you have a tool that can apply torque. The same thing works with a small socket to put on the end of a U joint and an extension. Loose induction rubbers are trouble. There's no excuse for letting them get that way.

P.S.- pay close attention to the rubbers on the Y pipe. That's the hardest place to inspect and tighten and the most likely place for an induction leak. And while you're looking, give the balance tube a close look for cracks.

Will do.

The only thumb turn clamps are on the two round 'tank looking things' on each side of the balance tube. All the rest have been replaced with hose clamps. I lubricated them and took flat nosed pliers and tightened.

One thing I've learned working on my own plane is the thing that is the utmost hardest to get to is what is likely needing your attention the most. Because the 'other guy' certainly didn't do it.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Keep in mind before undertaking this endeavor, the end result is your signature.
What will you be signing off? Even if you restrict that to your own airplane, there could still be liability. You may not be the only one to ever fly in your airplane. Others may, during your ownership and after that.
If you are ok with it, proceed. But it is something that most don't ponder til afterwards.

And not only the sign off. One thing I think about is, if a huge mx blunder is made, is it possible to live with possibly harming another? People make mistakes. Even the best of mechanics have.

 

[txflyer]

Keep in mind before undertaking this endeavor, the end result is your signature.
What will you be signing off? Even if you restrict that to your own airplane, there could still be liability. You may not be the only one to ever fly in your airplane. Others may, during your ownership and after that.
If you are ok with it, proceed. But it is something that most don't ponder til afterwards.

And not only the sign off. One thing I think about is, if a huge mx blunder is made, is it possible to live with possibly harming another? People make mistakes. Even the best of mechanics have.

If I have the slightest trepidation something is over my head, I won't do it.

What I'm doing is more like preventative maintenance. The exhaust stacks and muffler assembly are pretty simple to anyone with mechanical leanings. I will torque the bolts to spec and the final assembly will be inspected and approved by A&P.

I get what you're saying, but at some point you have to get on with life and let the lawyers fight over it later if need be. On the flip side of what you're saying, I have found a couple of things that are now fixed that an annual or an A&P would have NEVER found or touched most likely.

 

[Stewartb]

You don't need a mechanic credential to work on your own plane or even to build your own (certificated) plane, you just need a licensed mechanic to supervise you and inspect your work/return the airplane to service. Even if you get an A&P you'll need that relationship with an IA. Unless you expect to work for hire on other people's planes? Why bother?

 

[txflyer]

You don't need a mechanic credential to work on your own plane or even to build your own (certificated) plane, you just need a licensed mechanic to supervise you and inspect your work/return the airplane to service. Even if you get an A&P you'll need that relationship with an IA. Unless you expect to work for hire on other people's planes? Why bother?

Good point. I don't expect to be working for hire. Mainly was just curious how difficult it was.

I hang out with the wrench benders so much, I thought maybe ... why not?

I enjoy working on my own plane, but not so much others. I can understand why the two mechanics here are always cussing and every airplane that comes in their shop is a "piece of ****!"

 

[RotorAndWing]

Why bother?

Why not?

I got my A&P then my IA because I didn't want to be tied to someone for sign off's. There's a lot of satisfaction in knowing I can perform any function mechanic wise, use my best judgement and get the job done on my time frame, not someone else's.

 

[Stewartb]

I've wrenched on my own airplanes and never felt limited by not being licensed to do so. My next plane will be an E-AB Cub and I'll get the repairman cert for that. My comments, my perspective.

 

[Tom-D]

many owners just do the work and say nothing, no return to service entries, nothing.

I often see new parts installed and nothing in the logs.

Even on this page the Compass ferry gets blessed.

 

[txflyer]

What are the two tank looking things with hose and hose clamps around them on each side of the balance tube?

I've read if you wrap the balance tube with fireproof insulation, it helps with induction in some regard. True or False?

I log everything I do. Even log added zip ties. Ron trusts me because I tell him everything I'm doing and what I have done and will not return to service until he says o.k. I owner assist all my annuals. Re-pack my own wheel bearings, change tires and tubes, I even fabricated a better clamp to go on the gear leg for jacking up the mains on the skywagon.

 

[ICUDoc]

Lots of advantages to the A&P:

- signing off your friend's annual on his experimental (purchased) A/C
- as per R&W - you're obliged to noone after obtaining an IA
- knowledge - things I grew up doing to cars/boats/bikes don't transfer well
- knowledge - things I learned in A&P school transfer well to cars/boats/bikes
- knowledge - the A&P shanked me on my first annual - never again
- the regs are pretty important to learn and actually helpful at times
- looks good on a CV
- my wife thinks it's cool & at dinner parties everyone is intrigued by the A&P lol

-ICUDoc

 

[txflyer]

I have as much respect for an A&P as I do a fighter jock or airline captain.

Like a pharmacist.

Our nephew went to school forever and is now a pharmacist and a wealth of knowledge as much as any doctor if not more.