State of Alaska DOT Wants to Tax Aircraft Owners/Operators

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by AKBill, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    State of Alaska DOT has 3 new proposals out that will increase taxes for owners/operators.
    Proposal 1. 14% fuel tax increase.
    Proposal 2. $150 a year tax for each aircraft (registration fee)
    Proposal 3. Landing fee ($ yet to be determined)

    Like most states today Alaska is in the Red.

    A 14% increase in fuel would be about $.91 per gallon at the current price of $6.50gal. So at 75hrs a year and 8gph that's about $540 on top of what I would pay today. 69% of the folks polled as of today would vote for this.

    20% polled elected for the $150 a year registration fee and 11% polled elected landing fees.

    I don't see how they could effectively enforce a landing fee.

    I guess if it comes to a vote on a state ballot I'll vote for the $150 registration fee.

    Wondering what they are doing in the lower 48 as far as taxes to aircraft owners.
     
  2. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sounds like some politician up there might end up getting "lost in the woods" lol
     
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  3. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A landing fee will cost more to administer than it raises.
    A good time to own a mogas capable plane.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Well they are broke because of the royalties on oil are way down. So who will support the government? rich boys and their toys.
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's Alaska, the government can shrink to live within their budget.
     
  6. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    AKBill, here's a cut and paste from an email I got from the DOT Deputy Commissioner after I wrote to ask him about what the General Fund contributes to DOT Aviation.

     
  7. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I pay a registration fee in Ma.Not to happy about it,but much better than continually paying increasing taxes on av gas.unfortunatly Ma. Likes to do both.
     
  8. Sundancer

    Sundancer Pattern Altitude

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    Shrink to fit the revenue? Local and/or state gov't? Not likely, unless there is a long and sustained recession. More likely to raise taxes or borrow. Or both.
     
  9. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't worry. Once the state ledger is back in the black, they will quickly rescind these new fees.
    .
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    ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Let's see if they will .
     
  11. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Quite the opposite imo.
    The industrial base in Alaska is small and in much of the State the government is an important employer, and public spending is a significant part of community economies. I think that makes it difficult to cut. Now that hydrocarbon royalties and energy sector employment taxes are falling the always unpopular hunt for new tax sources is underway.
     
  12. jnmeade

    jnmeade Cleared for Takeoff

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    Does Alaska have the right to go in debt? Many states don't. Thankfully. :) Some do. :(
     
  13. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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  14. kkoran

    kkoran Cleared for Takeoff

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    What states don't issue bonds?
     
  15. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I think post #12 is confusing debt with deficits.
     
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  16. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    In the 35 years of big oil taxes the intrastructure of the State grew beyond what oil taxes in 2017 can maintain. 90% of the State's General Fund comes from oil taxes. Production is falling off, our past governor crafted an oil tax reform plan, and then prices crashed. A perfect storm for economic hard times. And we're in it. I have my issues with the revenue proposals but there's no question the State is in money trouble. And every Alaskan is partly responsible. We elected the baboons that got us here.
     
  17. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A mini Venezuela.
     
  18. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I was thinking more like Saudi Arabia...with parkas (insulated burqas?)
     
  19. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Wa.. after the WOOPS fiasco in the 80s we could give away junk bonds.
     
  20. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    letusseeherenow, Venezuela is all about corruption, Saudi is all about revenue without effort, Alaska is more about denial as in "no we don't need to allow more oil development because the stuff we have will last forever" and now they are finding out that it won't. There are some reasons for the attitude since the resources at Prudhoe turned out to be much larger than initially estimated. I'm sure that people on the outside looking in thought more oil would continually be found. The really bad news is that if the pipeline is ever shut down then major oil production is done. It would be very difficult to restart the pipeline once the oil freezes.
     
  21. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    And it isn't easy to get from place to place in the absence of roads without airports. A pickle indeed. I suspect the solution is going to wind up coming partially out of my own wallet. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
     
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  22. jnmeade

    jnmeade Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yes, you are right - the way I expressed it was confusing. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  23. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Are you certain about the amount the price of fuel will go up if the tax goes up 14%? Your calculations suggest that the price of fuel is 100% tax, and I strongly doubt that.

    That said, government is always looking for more money. And, as noted above, we all know that airplane owners are rich :) . $150/year registration strikes me as a little high. But, like a gas tax, it is easier to administer than a landing fee.
     
  24. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That was BEFORE they became airplane owners!
     
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  25. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I was in AK a year or 2 ago & saw a good handful of protesters in Anchorage, signs & all. The driver said they were protesting the idea of reducing the ‘permanent fund’ payout to AK residents. Once that $$ is flowing, hard to slow it down.
     
  26. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Have they stopped paying out the dividend yet ?
     
  27. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Cleared for Takeoff

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    No, I'm sure it's still payed out. They had been talking about reducing it some, I don't think that idea went very far. As it was explained to me, for a family of 4 say, it can be a meaningful chunk of change.

    I was in AK a while back while a dozen eggs were 38 cents at the local Wal-Mart, in WI. Since I was at the Anchorage Wal-Mart I thought I would compare this known price, the same were $1.97. Even with a few tax breaks one has to deal with higher costs.
     
  28. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    I think I got the calculation right %14 of current price $6.50 is $.91. So 75hrs at 8gph at $.91 more per gal is $546. Knowing the way the politics goes here we will end up paying the fuel tax..:( I would gladly pay the $150.

    I

    Yes we still get the PFD but the state is taking 1/2 to help pay budget deficits.
     
  29. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    Yes, but that's 14% of the total price. Not a 14% increase in the tax on the fuel. Or are you not paying a fuel tax now?
     
  30. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Guess you got me on that one, I'll need to see what we already pay and go from there, by bad....:lol:
     
  31. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    Iowa has a graduated registration fee, depending on the aircraft's age and list price when new:
    • Older than 30 years is the sweet spot, the fee is only $35
    • Between 4 to 29 years, Manufacturers list X .25%, which can easily cost a thousand dollars or more
    • Less than 4 years, it's still more, but not more than $5000.
     
  32. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    Nebraska definitely wants their sales/use tax when you purchase the airplane. However there is no state registration or additional state taxes.
     
  33. denverpilot

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  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    If government stuck to buying just things like roads and other public works, government would be incredibly cheap. The argument that we’d all be roadless without taxes is silly but oft stated.

    We have 25 nuclear carriers and their entire set of escorts and screening vessels as well as the subs protecting them, and aircraft aboard. And that’s even a drop in the military budget. Which dwarfs stuff like ... roads.

    I always laugh when someone smart enough to do the math thinks asphalt is the main reason for government. It might be one of the most useful things, but it isn’t really the thing that drives utterly insane levels of government debt.
     
  35. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    25?

    Yeah, defense (read a strong offense beats a strong defense most days so that’s really what we’ve got) is a huge part of the federal budget and revenue. An economic study of the industrial-military complex would be a scary read and I’m not gonna do it.
     
  36. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Hmm. Just looked. I misread an article a while back and it’s 11. Plus another 8 or 9 amphibious assault ships that are mini-carriers not classified as such.

    So 19 or 20 carrier-like ships and certainly all would be considered carriers when compared to anything else in the world fleet. Even our small carriers are as big as most.

    Five times as many as the next largest fleet, which is interestingly, France. Or Japan. Both at 4 but France is planning more. Japan isn’t.

    UK is broke. They have one and a second in sea trials.

    Russia is broke. Same deal. One.

    We’re financing it all on our debt, and paying for the “defense” of most of our “allies”. (Read: Oil shipping and whatever the hell we’re doing rattling sabers with China near Japan and south of there where they’re building whole islands out of dredging.)

    Not that this is anything new, but we’ve quintupled down on the carriers for whatever reason. Part of it is 11 is about the right number to have one carrier group in every major sea area, at all times with retrofits and what not.

    We’re broke too, we’re just pretending we aren’t. Spending a lot of damn money.

    We probably shouldn’t even mention F-35...
     
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  37. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Wow newer plane owners really must be rich...:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  38. jsstevens

    jsstevens En-Route

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    No argument on the "broke and pretending we aren't bit", but we're spending far more on FICA, Medicare, Medicaid, and the related entitlement programs (and we are obligated to by law) than on defense. I'm not saying we should be spending all we are on defense, but just for proportion... This is a bit dated but the scale is still the same:

    John
     
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  39. jsstevens

    jsstevens En-Route

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    I still like the Will Rogers quote "We don't get all the government we pay for. And we should be grateful!"
     
  40. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Oh, I’m aware. But waking people up requires something they can see, touch, etc.

    They intuitively know a massive capital ship that operates a small city on board, along with all of the escorts, aircraft, supplies, logistics, etc is a massive undertaking.

    Most don’t realize we have 20 and that’s 5 times anything our allies have.

    Only after they kinda “get it” that we’re buying stuff like that on debt, do you mention the entitlement programs dwarf ALL of defense.