Starting to work on IR

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Bwing96

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Bwing96
Read through a lot of posts on different forums and can't seem to find a good starting point. I downloaded the Instrument procedure Handbook and so far what I've read doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Kind of like reading some of these posts, I feel like I walked in in the middle of a conversation and don't know what's going on.

Is there a book or DVD course that I need to get that will make all of this more clear before I start training? I had hoped to get my written out of the way before I start the flying part, but need to do it this winter while things are slow at work.
 
I just finished going through the King IFR series on computer. I thought it was very well done. The video with review questions is a good learning method for me. I'd highly recommend it if that's how you learn as well. I tried a friend's ASA Instrument Flyying book and just don't learn as well reading. I missed only 1 question on each of the 3 practice tests they ship. I'm going to be taking the written this week.
 
I used Sporty's course and will say that I wasn't particularly impressed. It does orient you to IR flying but doesn't provide the helpful (test passing) info that other folks tell me that the King course provides.

I do like Machado's book but not everyone likes his style. Lot's of folks like Dolan but I found it exceedingly dry and useless.

In a nutshell, for the IR just learn to make the aircraft do what you want while on the gauges and then learn how to read and fly any particular approach. It takes a fair bit of practice and the head work (planning and contingency) will get your attention.
 
To me there are three parts to getting an IR rating and not all of them are directly related to the other.

The first thing is you need to know how to fly the plane by the gauges. This takes practice in the plane, you need to learn how to trim the plane for level hands off flight, then work on understanding the instruments and what they are telling you. This step takes longer than all the other steps and is where people have the most problems. You do not need to know how to read the charts or plates, or even to talk on the radio. Just learn to fly the plane.

The next step is to learn the lingo and talk on the radio. This means that you need to familiarize yourself with how the system works, what is said on the radio and when. Talking and flying is tough for some people so getting good at your radio skills is a great thing. Copying a clearance is one step, but there is more. This step can be started with things like the Comm1 simulators or reading books and then eventually, once you can fly the plane doing it in the air.

The last step is learning about approaches and other in the system flying. By the time you get to this you will be itching to fly these things and they will start to make a bit more sense.

Anyways that my $.02 on the IR rating.

I would suggest first doing some flying with a CFI-I to get good and climbs, level flight, turns, and other things while flying on the gauges only. Then worry about the rest.
 
Let's not forget the 4th important aspect of IR - weather. Understanding all the graphics, interpreting METARs, SIGMETs, etc.

This is the part that keeps tripping me up.

Oh yeah - and those idiotic VOR/ADF/HSI pictures on the test..."which of the 6 xxx indicate yyy?"
 
murphey said:
Let's not forget the 4th important aspect of IR - weather. Understanding all the graphics, interpreting METARs, SIGMETs, etc.

This is the part that keeps tripping me up.

Oh yeah - and those idiotic VOR/ADF/HSI pictures on the test..."which of the 6 xxx indicate yyy?"
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But once you pass the written you'll never see it again. It is helpful to knkow how to figure out where you are using the toys, however. But, HSI? Not in the planes I fly. I can only dream.
 
I just took the written and would like to pass on a few things:

1-Most surprising, none of the questions I worked with in my written study materials, my coursework, or the exams4pilots website were on the written I took. There are alot of comments made by recent test takers to the effect that the FAA is trying to keep the question formats revised in order for people not to just cram questions into their heads and then spew out the answers. Believe me, I dislike the FAA writtens as much as the next person.

2-Like most of us, the questions I missed were those where there was plenty of reasoning why 2 of the choices should have been acceptable. One I missed actually referrred to an item in the support materials that was no longer there (go figure) Amazingly, I got those questions about the HSI/RMI/ADF correct, which I thought I would never do, and like Ghery, will never see those instruments in any plane I fly.

3-Many questions about icing, I recall having 6 of them...not just what happens to the airfoil in various icing conditions, but also questions about proper control inputs should ice become a factor in flight. (the Colgan Effect?) However, few questions about understanding weather, which I found surprising since so much decisionmaking depends on WX understanding.

4-Some RNAV / GPS questions on the test, but not as many as I thought there would be. Alot of the plates in the example materials were still using the non-briefing strip format, and there were not many GPS approaches given.

Hope this helped give some useful info on the test. Oh, and alot of what is confounding you now, becomes much clearer once you start flying the theory in the plane and see how the real world works. Its a load of fun and you'll really enjoy it (the flying, not the written!)
 
I used the King course as well. Their sense of humor is kinda tough to get through some times, so drink some coffee and be prepared to watch a segment multiple times.

The weather segments in the King course was probably the most useful. That is the part that doesn't come easy to me.

I used the Jepp books for the formal ground school, but they really don't cover much on the test.
 
Clark1961 said:
I used Sporty's course and will say that I wasn't particularly impressed. It does orient you to IR flying but doesn't provide the helpful (test passing) info that other folks tell me that the King course provides.

I do like Machado's book but not everyone likes his style. Lot's of folks like Dolan but I found it exceedingly dry and useless.
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LOL - I guess this just shows how it's really a matter of individual preference. I really liked the Sporty's videos (especially the 1st disc with the real IFR flight) *because* they did more than just teach you the test. I love Machado's books because they keep me engaged and I retain the material better, and I like the Dogan book as well.
 
Congratulations on passing the written! :thumbsup:

DutchessFlier said:
I just took the written and would like to pass on a few things:

1-Most surprising, none of the questions I worked with in my written study materials, my coursework, or the exams4pilots website were on the written I took. There are alot of comments made by recent test takers to the effect that the FAA is trying to keep the question formats revised in order for people not to just cram questions into their heads and then spew out the answers. Believe me, I dislike the FAA writtens as much as the next person.
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This really surprises me. I took the written in late June, and there were 5-6 questions that I had never seen before (I used the ASA test prep, and before that watched the King videos from 5 or so years back a couple of times over about 6 months). I thought that was a lot! But I can't imagine seeing NONE of the questions, unless the prep you used wasn't designed to prepare you with the actual questions (not a bad way to do things in principle, but there are enough questions in that bank that are blatantly trick questions, such as the one asking about a MSA on an approach plate that is so poorly reproduced in the test materials that it's impossible to read and the only way to get it is to look up the approach, that I don't feel bad about memorizing the answers), or unless they've completely changed the test bank in the last 6 months.

3-Many questions about icing, I recall having 6 of them...not just what happens to the airfoil in various icing conditions, but also questions about proper control inputs should ice become a factor in flight. (the Colgan Effect?) However, few questions about understanding weather, which I found surprising since so much decisionmaking depends on WX understanding.
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Ditto as to questions about icing -- most of which I got except for one about boots, which I knew nothing about, never having flown a plane that had them.

Hope this helped give some useful info on the test. Oh, and alot of what is confounding you now, becomes much clearer once you start flying the theory in the plane and see how the real world works. Its a load of fun and you'll really enjoy it (the flying, not the written!)
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Yes, VERY much so!
 
Thanks Liz: You Too...are you getting close to the rating? We still gotta plan that half way trip this spring to meetup.

I took the American Flyers Weekend course just to get this out of the way, in addition to my self studying and 'cramming' of sorts. With our schedules of life, work, etc. this was the best way for me to focus..I was pretty surprised about the questions overall: the subject matter was covered in my prep, but where I had heard that at least a good portion of the test bank study questions were on the actual exam verbatim, not the case for me, especially the icing issues. Another pilot was taking the test at the same time I was, and we finished about the same time, so we compared notes: he felt the same about the exam, but his selection of questions was very different than mine was!

The instructor supervising the exam said he has heard the same thing from every student or pilot who took the PP or IR test over the last few weeks regarding the questions themselves.
 
I just recently took the Gleim online IFR Ground School course, and these questions about boots/icing and other descriptions sound familiar. I think they're in the test pool, but some vendors may not have updated their material yet? Gleim has 2011 book out, and while their online Ground School is a little wonky (graphics rotated the wrong way, but the link at the bottom to view in PDF format takes care of that, since those are rotated correctly, and yes... I let them know)... it seems like maybe these updated questions are in their software and question pool.
 
I've just done my private checkride and am at a similar point to as the OP.

I'm reading Bob Gardner's "The Complete Advanced Pilot" which is turning out to be a good overview of what IR flying involves.

I can recommend this book (and his others)
 
The IR written is vast overkill - typical of a bureaucracy where an employee gets a raise by revising test questions so that they are even more opaque than before.. And where that FAA employee believes that having a test question pool that requires pilots be physics majors and aerodynamic engineers to answer them is somehow 'good' for aviation...

denny-o
 
I thought the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook was a good introduction to the various topics I needed to learn. I used the King videos for the test prep. I found them really helpful for the test itself, but like everyone else has said, they're not enough by themselves. Jeppessen's Instrument/Commercial is a decent reference (it was recommended by my instructor). I'm thinking about picking up Bob Gardner's book to see what it's like. For understanding the principles of instrument procedures, nothing helped me more than Wally Roberts' TERPS articles from IFR Refresher. They're sometimes a bit dry or overly technical, and occasionally out of date (especially on departure procedures) but overall I thought they were great. I'd suggest you make sure you know how to read an approach plate and enroute chart, though, before you start in to them.
 
Regarding questions not being what you studied - my King course came with about 3 double sided pages of updated/new questions. Several of those deal with icing. I'll post what I see on the test after i take it.

One question update had the answer changed on the "frost the consistency of medium sandpaper". The answer in the study material has been 30%/40%. The updated question has the answer of reduction of 25% for drag and lift.
 
Can anyone who has taken the test on a Laser Grade system comment on the built-in E6B computer? Does it have all the airspeed, flight leg, etc functions?
 
Clark1961 said:
Lot's of folks like Dolan (sic) but I found it exceedingly dry and useless.
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Peter Dogan's Instrument Flight Training Manual (if that is the book to which you were referring) is an excellent text to accompany the flight portion of IR training, but not very useful in preparation for the written test. For the written test prep, I recommend other things based on the trainee's personal learning style (video, classroom, interactive computer-based, or books):
The FAA books like the IPH originally mentioned are great reference manuals, but not very good as training courses.
 
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LSLBlues said:
Can anyone who has taken the test on a Laser Grade system comment on the built-in E6B computer? Does it have all the airspeed, flight leg, etc functions?
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Why not bring your own?

The ASA aluminum E6-B works fine for tests, and you're not stuck if your battery goes flat.
 
LSLBlues said:
Can anyone who has taken the test on a Laser Grade system comment on the built-in E6B computer? Does it have all the airspeed, flight leg, etc functions?
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The Lasergrade E6B seemed to have all the required functions when I used it on the Commercial test last week. Use was intuitive to me. As always, YMWV.
 
Ron Levy said:
Peter Dogan's Instrument Flight Training Manual (if that is the book to which you were referring) is an excellent text to accompany the flight portion of IR training,[snip].
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You give the text way too much credit. It presents only one approach to instrument flying rather than offering multiple perspectives which allow the reader to chose what is best.
 
I used the on-line version of the King Schools IR written prep class. It has the advantage of being kept up to date. It has the disadvantage of being about useless if you don't have enough bandwidth were you are trying to use it. Worked great at home, not so well in the condo on Kauai this summer. Oh well, passed the test in October.

I recognized the vast majority of the questions on my test. Some on icing didn't look familiar, and one clearly was an evaluation for future use question as it didn't impact my final score, even though I got it wrong.

As noted before, the King class is great for written prep, but that's as far as it goes. And I think that is deliberate. They sell a second class to prepare you for the check ride. And a bunch of others, as well. Good marketing. I'd have to look at my book pile, but I know I have Machado's Instrument Pilot Survival Guide (picked it up at S&F a few years ago) and I really like his approach on a few subjects. I won't give away the details (buy the book yourself) but his suggested way of figuring out holding pattern entries on the face of the DG is the best I've tried.

Have fun!
 
Clark1961 said:
You give the text way too much credit. It presents only one approach to instrument flying rather than offering multiple perspectives which allow the reader to chose what is best.
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I'd say 30 years of successfully putting people through IR training in 10 days provides a lot of credibility. The same methods take folks off the street and turn them into military pilots flying jets in a year and 200 hours.

And if the reader knew what was best, s/he wouldn't need the book.;)
 
DutchessFlier said:
Thanks Liz: You Too...are you getting close to the rating? We still gotta plan that half way trip this spring to meetup.
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I wish, but I'm no closer than the last time we talked. I get 2, maybe 3 hours under the hood per month now. It's because of the weather, partly, but mostly because I'm chasing mx issues now, one right after the other. First it was the charging system, then my attitude gyro went belly-up, now my GPS is mostly unable to receive the WAAS satellites and I'm getting conflicting advice from my avionics tech and some very knowledgeable folks on the users group for my GPS. I don't want to take it to the checkride like that. It's getting very frustrating and discouraging. :(

So you'll probably get the rating before me. Good luck!
 
Just took my written today. Missed one question. I had ZERO icing questions and recognized all of the questions except for 2 that were the new eval questions. I'm very pleased with how the King course prepared me for the exam.

My notes on the laser grade flight computer
1. It doesn't support decimals everywhere. If the speed is computed as 158.7, you have to either enter 158 or 159 on something like the leg time calculator.
2. If you do enter something like 158.7 on the leg time calculator, the calculator stops working and you have to exit it and restart it to get it working again.
3. The calculator on leg time only gives you HH:MM. It silently truncates the number. So 13.1 and 13.9 minutes both become 13. That made a difference on one question where the flight computer gave an answer of 1:29 and the choices were 1:31 and 1:26. I recomputed leg times using the real calculator and came up with 1:31:30 so the truncation caused 2.5 minutes to get lost.

Otherwise it had all the functions you need for the test and worked fine. If you've used any other electronic E6B/flight computer, you shouldn't have any problems using it. If you have your own bring it for sure. Mine is in storage and I didn't want to spend $60 for a new one.
 
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The written is the hardest part from the perspective of getting the rating, so if you have that out of the way now, you can focus on the flying aspects.

You do need to know how to fly the plane and interpret the instruments well. Find a CFII who's willing to teach you in a way that works for you. For me, I did approaches and holds on my first IR lesson. While some people boo-hoo'd that method, it kept me challenged, focused, and interesting. I've never been one who liked doing exercises for the sake of doing them when it wasn't something that I was directly using. It certainly hasn't hurt me as an instrument pilot, since I'm on instruments for virtually every flight I make. However a lot of people do like them and benefit from them, so figure out which kind of student you are and go from there.

Radio work is very important, as-is being able to read and understand the charts at a glance. Those come with practice more than anything, but sitting down and studying them on the ground is a good way to familiarize yourself.

Ultimately when you're done, the weather will be the biggest factor, as the instrument rating will, in many cases, make the go/no-go decision more difficult. Learning how to interpret things like icing, storms, etc. are all big parts of it. Those, too, come somewhat with experience and with starting out conservative.
 
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